If God existed, would you repent?

[haas mark]

Repent to a lying bastard? I don't think so. I think I'll keep my homosexual polytheism alive and well.

[Invictus ChiKen]

To be technical... Repenting because you dont want to burn is acceptable...

Some kinda post-mortum divine sin removing psycho surgery... Thingy takes care of the rest when you die...

[TimothyC]

No, because this obviously isn't God.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I know God can't take out a Klingon Bird of Prey, so it's not a stretch to say an Abrams will ruin his shit.

However, I feel simply logic'ing God out of existence would be better. That omnipotent and omniscient entities are a direct contradiction in terms, God should poof out of existence no sooner than he's appeared.

Besides, you could always call on Allah or Zeus or Thor and have them enter the match. Then you can sit back and watch the fireworks as ancient mythos figures duke it out till the end of days.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The "iron chariots" passage is amusing (and I love the card) but a flawed argument, by the way - if the "he" in that passage was God, it would be He with a capital. Hell, my Bible* says "And they drove out the mountaineers but they could not drive out the inhabitants of the lowland, because they had chariots of iron."

God was with them, though, so why did iron chariots stop them?

Apparently God being on your side does not make you able to defeat overweight 1,000 BCE-era war carts, so why can't we stomp our way through the legions of angels too?

The problem is that, throughout the Bible, God's innumerable displays of supposed omnipotence simply don't cut it for a modern technological people. It's all stuff we can pull off with modern technology.

At least the Hindu pantheon is explicitly said to be capable of destroying the universe, which is a hell of a lot more impressive than pillars of fire and giant waves.

[Darth Wong]

In the Bible, when it says that God is with you, it means that he gives you supernatural powers. When God was "with" the Israelites against Jericho, they let out a mighty shout and the walls came falling down. When God was "with" Samson, he killed a thousand men with the jawbone of a donkey. So saying that God was only "with" the men of Judah rather than demonstrating his own power is quite a bit of a dodge. It's pretty obvious that God's power diminishes greatly in the presence of iron, because otherwise you'd think an army of divine supermen who can knock down stone walls with a shout and score 1000:1 kill ratios would be able to stop enemy cavalry.

[Stuart]

Apparently God being on your side does not make you able to defeat overweight 1,000 BCE-era war carts, so why can't we stomp our way through the legions of angels too? The problem is that, throughout the Bible, God's innumerable displays of supposed omnipotence simply don't cut it for a modern technological people. It's all stuff we can pull off with modern technology.

You know, there's the basis for a good novel there............

[Gustav32Vasa]

It's pretty obvious that God's power diminishes greatly in the presence of iron, because otherwise you'd think an army of divine supermen who can knock down stone walls with a shout and score 1000:1 kill ratios would be able to stop enemy cavalry.

That would mean that God is a troll from Nordic tales. They were weakened by iron.

[Starglider]

You know, there's the basis for a good novel there............

Hopefully one with plenty of subtle humour at the expense of the 'Left Behind' series. It's been satirised a few times already, but more mockery of that steaming pile of crap (particularly of the movies: gotta love the title of the sequel though: 'Left Behind II - Tribulation Force') is always welcome.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I am seriously tempted to turn this into story on the board, now.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

More to the point, not only did God cease to create miracles around the start of the Iron Age, and then apparently came back with the new "Jesus" tactic of love and reconciliation, but there's another thing to consider about the whole Chariots of Iron connection:

A chariot of iron never existed in history. It would have been worthless on the field of battle. Chariots were made of extremely light wood and even woven bark! They had to be very light to go very fast, as they were the cavalry of their day. They had almost no metal parts whatsoever, and the goal of chariots--sort of like with early biplanes--was to make them as light as possible. The best chariots were the lightest, made more or less out of wood and fabric.

So why, then, were iron chariots listed as the exact cause of the defeat of the Israelites?

I would submit that the only rational explaination is that God was directly aiding them in battle, and the peoples of the valleys built iron chariots explicitly to counter God, because there is no other rational possible use for them. So if we assume that the people of the valleys were anything other than irrational lunatics who decided to waste iron, which at that period in history would be almost as precious as gold and more precious than silver on building useless chariots which could scarcely move, then we must assume that they built those chariots with a specific purpose in mind. And it appears that the only rational purpose there would have been to mitigate the effects of God directly empowering the Israelites in battle.

[Stuart]

Hopefully one with plenty of subtle humour at the expense of the 'Left Behind' series.

Hmm. Basic plotline. Armageddon takes place on schedule, the Devil defeats the forces of light and declares dominion over the earth. The world's armed forces (or those that have serious firepower) wade in with gusto. And don't stop when it comes to blasting just one side.

Opening Lines.....

"I, Satan Mekratrig, Lord of the Darkness hereby declare my dominion over the earth. Bow down and worship me mortals"

"Balls" said Lieutenant (jg) Michael Wong. The last few days had been bad enough and he just wasn't going to put up with this nonsense any longer. He had his F/A-18E, he had his AIM-120s and he had his cannon. It was time to 'make a difference'.........

[haas mark]

It's pretty obvious that God's power diminishes greatly in the presence of iron, because otherwise you'd think an army of divine supermen who can knock down stone walls with a shout and score 1000:1 kill ratios would be able to stop enemy cavalry.

That would mean that God is a troll from Nordic tales. They were weakened by iron.

And when have we ever known the Judao-Christian god to be original in any way?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Hopefully one with plenty of subtle humour at the expense of the 'Left Behind' series.

Hmm. Basic plotline. Armageddon takes place on schedule, the Devil defeats the forces of light and declares dominion over the earth. The world's armed forces (or those that have serious firepower) wade in with gusto. And don't stop when it comes to blasting just one side.

Opening Lines.....

"I, Satan Mekratrig, Lord of the Darkness hereby declare my dominion over the earth. Bow down and worship me mortals"

"Balls" said Lieutenant (jg) Michael Wong. The last few days had been bad enough and he just wasn't going to put up with this nonsense any longer. He had his F/A-18E, he had his AIM-120s and he had his cannon. It was time to 'make a difference'.........

We could also just double-cross Satan. I imagine that Hell is filled with demons who would like to replace him.

[SirNitram]

Meh. Hell's demons are uncreative shits. Mankind undoubtably comes up with more creative backstabs on a regular schedule.

The real question is: If Thor exists, will you repent your Judeochristian ways? Valhalla's waiting.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Meh. Hell's demons are uncreative shits. Mankind undoubtably comes up with more creative backstabs on a regular schedule.

The real question is: If Thor exists, will you repent your Judeochristian ways? Valhalla's waiting.

I already worship Odin, so that's superfluous. *grins*

[Darth Wong]

I've always enjoyed the idea of pitting modern firepower against ancient magic. When you look at those ancient mythologies, the gods always seem immensely powerful when they describe what happened before men came along. They made worlds, made the earth shake, pounded mountains into dust with their fists, etc. But the minute men enter the picture (and start observing events first hand), their feats suddenly become far less impressive, even in their own mythologies. Much less impressive than many of the things we can do today.

[Dooey Jo]

It's pretty obvious that God's power diminishes greatly in the presence of iron, because otherwise you'd think an army of divine supermen who can knock down stone walls with a shout and score 1000:1 kill ratios would be able to stop enemy cavalry.

That would mean that God is a troll from Nordic tales. They were weakened by iron.

Not just trolls, many evil mythical creatures are weakened by or afraid of iron, in many different cultures. How... interesting
Maybe putting a horseshoe above your door prevents God from entering...

[The Vortex Empire]

It's pretty obvious that God's power diminishes greatly in the presence of iron, because otherwise you'd think an army of divine supermen who can knock down stone walls with a shout and score 1000:1 kill ratios would be able to stop enemy cavalry.

That would mean that God is a troll from Nordic tales. They were weakened by iron.

Not just trolls, many evil mythical creatures are weakened by or afraid of iron, in many different cultures. How... interesting
Maybe putting a horseshoe above your door prevents God from entering...

It might, but you also have to put it on your windows and fireplace. God isn't very original, so he might try to copy Santa. And if he couldn't beat chariots, then never mind tanks, a freaking car would be enough.

[mr friendly guy]

We need to get the Saint of Killers on our side.

Back to the OP, no I would not repent to maniacal wanker. Like others have suggested given the contradictions in the Bible I wouldn't take his so called omnipotence at face value, and I would seriously consider using iron chariots against him.

Or we could cut a deal with Satan. God gets George W Bush and Donald Rumsfeld to command his armies, we get Georgei Zhukov, Hannibal, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Scipio Africanus etc.

While we are at it, lets ally ourselves with some Pagan Gods and other mythological animals. God may have created the Earth, but Fenris will eat it. And lets not forget the Midgard serpent. I say we get Prometheus to forge the iron chariots for us.

[Patrick Degan]

In the Bible, when it says that God is with you, it means that he gives you supernatural powers. When God was "with" the Israelites against Jericho, they let out a mighty shout and the walls came falling down. When God was "with" Samson, he killed a thousand men with the jawbone of a donkey. So saying that God was only "with" the men of Judah rather than demonstrating his own power is quite a bit of a dodge. It's pretty obvious that God's power diminishes greatly in the presence of iron, because otherwise you'd think an army of divine supermen who can knock down stone walls with a shout and score 1000:1 kill ratios would be able to stop enemy cavalry.

In the movie Patton, there is the famous scene where prior to the Battle of the Bulge, Gen. Patton has the chaplain of the 3rd Army compose a prayer for good weather for the next day so he can get his air force up in the skies over Bastonge. Well, come sunrise it's clear skies above, but you notice the Almighty doesn't stick around for the tanks to start rolling through.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Really, all this talk of humanity rising up against our supposed superior celestial masters is just the plot to the His Dark Materials trilogy, by far the best young adult books I've ever read.

I could easily see the final battle of that series being extended into a book series itself following humans from our planet Earth and various alternate universes as well as other beings from elsewhere in the universe.

Just as the actual battles were simply background features in Star Wars with emphasis on key characters whereas the EU books deal with the actual war, you could do the same for HDM and have someone write books dealing with the same idea.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

I voted no, for the simple reason that it's probably not a "real" God - just someone or something hijacking our old myths and legends to gain our obedience (which is what religion does anyway, it just happens in this case it is not by a human perpetrator).

Even if he is the "real" God described in the bible all his observed (i.e. as described in the bible with witnesses) abilities are, so far as I recall them, not so impressive compared to modern technology.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I voted no, for the simple reason that it's probably not a "real" God - just someone or something hijacking our old myths and legends to gain our obedience (which is what religion does anyway, it just happens in this case it is not by a human perpetrator).

Even if he is the "real" God described in the bible all his observed (i.e. as described in the bible with witnesses) abilities are, so far as I recall them, not so impressive compared to modern technology.

The main problem is that if you do have an immortal soul and God has the power to damn that even if he's been defeated, then you're just avoiding eternal torture until your natural biological death.

That's why I suggested working with Satan: Not because we need his help militarily, but because we may need it spiritually. I mean, it just seems rather safe if we're dealing with the God of the Bible in a literalist situation. Also I'd really like a large pair of black feathered wings, but I digress.

[wolveraptor]

A chariot of iron never existed in history. It would have been worthless on the field of battle.

Since the Old Testament is sort've like a warped Jewish history, I would guess that the enemy army put iron spikes on the wheels of their chariots, and the panicked Jewish soldiers who were cut down by them thought the whole contraption was made of iron.