Is calling Native Americans "Indians" racist?

[wolveraptor]

Unfortunately, in Real India, the commonly used term for Indigenous or Aboriginal Americans (the two most precise nouns for them) is "Red Indian", which pretty much is racist.

[LadyTevar]

What about "AmerInd", which is used on some census records and other legal documents?

[Darth Wong]

Do natives who have left the reservations still call themselves natives? Or are they just Americans now? How long is this ethnic group going to cling to the past?

[The Original Nex]

I thought that most preferred the term "Indian" or "American Indian" over "Native American."

As a side note, where did the term "Indian" even come from? I know it's popular to think that Colombus thought he was in India, and thus, called them Indians, but "India" didn't exist as an entity in the 15th century, it was Mughal then. Am I missing something?

[Dillon]

Do natives who have left the reservations still call themselves natives? Or are they just Americans now? How long is this ethnic group going to cling to the past?

My father lived on the reserve when he was a kid. I never have. I'm not sure how acknowledging the fact that I have Mohican ancestry is clinging to the past. I also acknowledge that I have Irish and Italian ancestry. Am I clinging to the past by acknowledging that as well?

I'm just tired of people seeing me, and asking me if I'm an "Indian" because I have Mohican facial features.

I thought that most preferred the term "Indian" or "American Indian" over "Native American."

As a side note, where did the term "Indian" even come from? I know it's popular to think that Colombus thought he was in India, and thus, called them Indians, but "India" didn't exist as an entity in the 15th century, it was Mughal then. Am I missing something?

No idea, but I would be interested to know how Natives did in fact become "Indians", considering this information.

[Stark]

While this situation is an interesting one (I wonder if there's an overall ethnic term that can be used, like 'siberian' or 'european' or whatever) it's not as lame as the Australian natives using the word 'aboriginal' with a capital A to refer to their entire, totally fractured ethnic group. United only by european interference, the only term they use for themselves is 'aboriginal' which doesn't tell anyone anything. I in all honesty think if you spoke of 'aboriginals' near a 'native Australian' they would assume you were talking about their ethnic group specifically.

From another perspective, the 'native x' thing irritates me. I feel it's a political term, loaded with 'here first' and 'this is ours' emotional nonsense used by ethnic leaders. The logic is clearly broken (how far do we go back, exactly?) but it's become an emotional play, regardless of facts or culpability, and I think that's sad because it gets in the way (both politically and culturally) of real reconciliation and assimilation.

[Darth Servo]

You'll notice that I never said nor implied that calling Natives "Indians" was on the same level as the term "nigger". I was simply demonstrating why pointing out that some Aboriginals using the term doesn't necessarily justify its use. Learn to fucking read.

Your OP stated that "Indians" is "no better than any other racial slurr".

[Darth Servo]

People use it for a simple reason: it's easier. "Native American" is two words, and takes much longer to write or to say.

I've always referred to Native Americans simply as "Natives".

Same here, if just because they are not Indians as they are neither citizens of India or of Indian decent.

Zor

Except it doesn't work as a descriptive term outside of the Americas. A "Native American" living in Europe or Africa isn't a "native".

[BrandonMustang]

I come from a town/county/state predominated by Native Americans and they do not like being called Indians. At all. People get beaten and killed over that rather often.

Ehhh? Source for this, please? I can't imagine there'd be a place where people are getting killed over calling someone an Indian without it making headlines, let alone this happening "rather often."

In a small town like mine this is just generally known. There was a kid that got jumped in the park last month by a Native American and all of his siblings and cousins. Many of them had tire irons and the kid got his skull smashed open like a pinata. They don't put it in the paper and they don't put it in the police report. There are Native American blocks that the cops won't drive into. We also have a separate police force because my town is on tribal land and the tribe in question has it's own police force... which doesn't help much. The kid is in a coma and may not come out. He called the main agressor's sister a "squaw" and the whole High School knows (My mother is a teacher and my sister is a student). I recall this happening often. I realize it is aweful and believe me when I say that my family has taken things to the police and the school administration only to be shut up while the whole thing is "forgotten". Obviously this incident is not the standard "Indian" name usage. However, they make it known they don't like it and pick fights over it. As far as outside the town, you should look into the Native American Rights lobbyists in Oklahoma. They speak at the capitol about this issue (and others) CONSTANTLY. They even go to schools around the state and talk about the right words to use, etc.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Well, my grandmother is almost pure Cherokee, and my grandfather was half-Indian, i dont recall if what tribe was specified. I believe, the same.

At any rate, we always said "Indian". Though my grandma did once point out that, technically, she's a Cherokee and the ones who came up with "Indians" were "White guys who couldnt read a map, yet saw fit to call everyone else uneducated savages" so she obviously thinks of herself as a Cherokee more than an "Indian" or "Native American" but she uses the former term because it's faster.

So i would say, the name should probably go by whatever tribe they belong to, or if you dont know, then Indian because it's more expedient.


For the record, my father was Chinese. I mean like, second generation Chinese-American not like three or four generations ago. Which is all odd because that technically means my mom is the most Black of anyone in my immediate family but we're considered (and i consider myself) Black so...

Ethnic issues are funny, eh?

[Darth Wong]

Do natives who have left the reservations still call themselves natives? Or are they just Americans now? How long is this ethnic group going to cling to the past?

My father lived on the reserve when he was a kid. I never have. I'm not sure how acknowledging the fact that I have Mohican ancestry is clinging to the past. I also acknowledge that I have Irish and Italian ancestry. Am I clinging to the past by acknowledging that as well?

You don't just "acknowledge" your "ancestry". You identify yourself with the group and its expectations.

I'm just tired of people seeing me, and asking me if I'm an "Indian" because I have Mohican facial features.

So if they asked if you if you were a "Native American" because you have Mohican facial features, that wouldn't bother you?

And anyone who calls all Native Americans "Natives" when conversing with an international peer group is an idiot. Believe it or not, there are actually countries outside this continent. Shocking news, I know. But true. You can't refer to a particular ethnic group in the Americas with the universal term "Natives".

[Master of Ossus]

The Census and numerous legal documents officially use the term "American Indian." If you consider the term to have derogatory connotations, you might want to take it up with the Bureau of the Census, but really I think they switched to that term because lots of people complained about other terms, in the past.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Natives using the word doesn't mean anything.
A lot of black teenagers call each other "niggers".

I'm not talking about slang among peers but official gov't documents. There are tribes in California that officially refer to themselves as Indian.

Regardless, I personally prefer Mohawk or Iroquois, but I realize that it's unreasonable for people to be able to recognize what tribe/nation a native, or aboriginal if you will, is from just by looking at him.

I think this is an entirely reasonable stance. Indians are not (or were not) a monolithic group. Sorta like Asians are not all the same and it would be unreasonable to expect the average person to be able to differentiate between Vietnamese and Chinese people.

Perhaps calling it a racial slur is going a bit far. I don't think most people, at least nowadays, have malicious intent when they use the word. But I cringe every time someone calls me that, and feel the need to correct them, because it is in error.

I don't think its a slur either. I'm not too keen on the word Native American because it sorta implies that I'm not native myself even though I was born here. Its almost as if there are two types; Native Americans with a capital N and native Americans with a little n.

It has nothing to do with hatred of East Indians. How would white people like it if I started calling them Europeans? I doubt I'd get punched in the face for it, but I'm sure I would get some looks from people.

Then again, maybe I'm just anal.

If was from Europe and you called me European you'd be correct although I think just about everyone more strongly identifies themselves at a more local level. Being Irish for instance.

If you call me European I'm not going to get upset but I would feel a sense of incorrectness. I'm not European, I'm a white guy born in California.

[Dillon]

You don't just "acknowledge" your "ancestry". You identify yourself with the group and its expectations.

I also sympathize with the plight of poor Africans despite not having any African ancestry. I admit that I do tend to get a tad emotional over Native issues, probably as a result of my father's influence, but I don't only care because I'm Native myself.

So if they asked if you if you were a "Native American" because you have Mohican facial features, that wouldn't bother you?

Quite frankly, I'd prefer if so many people didn't feel it necessary to ask such questions, but if they're going to, I wish they'd at least do it without using erroneous terms.

And anyone who calls all Native Americans "Natives" when conversing with an international peer group is an idiot. Believe it or not, there are actually countries outside this continent. Shocking news, I know. But true. You can't refer to a particular ethnic group in the Americas with the universal term "Natives".

Never have used the term when conversing with anyone. To anyone who asks, I say either Iroquois or Mohawk. Or Haudenosaunee if I'm in the mood to confuse.

Anyway, wouldn't the same hold true for anyone who uses the term "Indian" to describe Natives when conversing with an international group? You would then have to specify that they're American Indians, just like anyone using the term Native or Aboriginal would.

[Hillary]

From another perspective, the 'native x' thing irritates me. I feel it's a political term, loaded with 'here first' and 'this is ours' emotional nonsense used by ethnic leaders. The logic is clearly broken (how far do we go back, exactly?) but it's become an emotional play, regardless of facts or culpability, and I think that's sad because it gets in the way (both politically and culturally) of real reconciliation and assimilation.

It's all about pigeon-holing. You can't simply be a citizen of America, Britain, Australia, etc. You have to be defined by your ethnic or religious background or your sexual orientation - this is not just media, but Govt too. In Britain, the Govt refers to Muslim communities, gay communities, asian communities, Jewish communities, black communities, even Protestant and Catholic communities in some areas - and I've probably not even scratched the surface.

Why does it seem so difficult to realise that once a country starts pigeon-holing its people along these lines, integration issues become far worse.

[The Spartan]

As a side note, where did the term "Indian" even come from? I know it's popular to think that Colombus thought he was in India, and thus, called them Indians, but "India" didn't exist as an entity in the 15th century, it was Mughal then. Am I missing something?

No idea, but I would be interested to know how Natives did in fact become "Indians", considering this information.

I recall reading somewhere, I can't think of where now, that it had to do with Columbus calling them "a people in god" in his journals, which in Spanish is "una gente in dios" and that the term Indian evolved from that. But I have to admit I have no idea how reliable that is. With my memory I may have invented the whole thing.

[Lonestar]

I recall reading somewhere, I can't think of where now, that it had to do with Columbus calling them "a people in god" in his journals, which in Spanish is "una gente in dios" and that the term Indian evolved from that. But I have to admit I have no idea how reliable that is. With my memory I may have invented the whole thing.

The Straightdope Explains it all

[His Divine Shadow]

Indians sounds cooler than native americans. Or "injuns"

[Kane Starkiller]

Here in Croatia we call Native Americans "Indijanci" and Indians (from India) "Indijci".

[Darth Wong]

I also sympathize with the plight of poor Africans despite not having any African ancestry.

Poor Africans have a genuine "plight". Natives don't.

I admit that I do tend to get a tad emotional over Native issues, probably as a result of my father's influence, but I don't only care because I'm Native myself.

There you go again, calling yourself "Native" just after trying to distance yourself from my accusation that you are clinging to the past by identifying yourself so strongly with this group and its goals (which are, in fact, all about restoring the past).

So if they asked if you if you were a "Native American" because you have Mohican facial features, that wouldn't bother you?

Quite frankly, I'd prefer if so many people didn't feel it necessary to ask such questions, but if they're going to, I wish they'd at least do it without using erroneous terms.

And yet you call yourself "Native" even though that term is meaningless without a suffix. Are you a native Australian? A native German? Don't give me shit about how it's offensively "erroneous" to use the short-form "Indian" when speaking locally even though you use the term "Native" which is just as erroneous if not more so, and you're using it in an international forum.

Never have used the term when conversing with anyone. To anyone who asks, I say either Iroquois or Mohawk. Or Haudenosaunee if I'm in the mood to confuse.

So you have "never" used the term "Native" without a suffix, yet you just fucking did, in the preceding paragraph?

Anyway, wouldn't the same hold true for anyone who uses the term "Indian" to describe Natives when conversing with an international group? You would then have to specify that they're American Indians, just like anyone using the term Native or Aboriginal would.

Yes. When dealing with an international group, one should always use the term "American Indian" instead of just "Indian". How does this invalidate my point?

[The Spartan]

I recall reading somewhere, I can't think of where now, that it had to do with Columbus calling them "a people in god" in his journals, which in Spanish is "una gente in dios" and that the term Indian evolved from that. But I have to admit I have no idea how reliable that is. With my memory I may have invented the whole thing.

The Straightdope Explains it all

I stand corrected. Thanks, Lonestar.

[Ted C]

I don't think "Indian" amounts to a racial slur, but it's about as accurate as "Asian". As far as I know, there never was any monumental "Native American" culture. Further, having been born here, I can easily claim to be a "Native American" myself.

I think it would be preferrable to identify "Native American" groups by their proper national/tribal identities (Cherokee, Seminole, etc.) whenever possible.

[Darth Wong]

I don't think "Indian" amounts to a racial slur, but it's about as accurate as "Asian".

And I never have a problem with someone calling me "Asian" even though I've never been to Asia. There comes a point when you have to wonder why people are so obsessed with their ethnicity being identified with their preferred terminology.

[TithonusSyndrome]

The term "Native" in and of itself certainly isn't exclusive to Native Americans/Canadians, but it suits my purposes on a colloquial basis and it appears to be the term insisted on around here. If it's ill-suited for international affairs, then I can hardly say I'm shocked, because that suggests the exact kind of myopia that their movement has been characterized by. What do they care about Europe or Africa? The government they want to mooch from, the people they want to pester, and the land they want to portray themselves as having some right to on emotional grounds is in this country and nothing else matters to them.

[ANGELUS]

In my case, as a Méxican I must tell you that I have absolutely no problem by been called that, because after all that's what I am. Words like latin or hispanic bother me a little mostly because they are stereotypes but not because they are insultating in any way (I mean, I can live with them, they're no big deal, but I feel a little stereotyped when someone uses them. However they describe accurately enough my ethnic origin). I believe it is the same when the word "Indian" is used... it is not meant to be an insult at all.