Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

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Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Recently here in Alberta, my cable provider shuffled around their channels and with it came a pleasant suprise: BBC World. While largely repetitive now a la CNN, I've been able to remain abreast of most world events with little effort, including the VT massacre. One comment struck me as being particularly accurate: that kids nowadays are more narcisstic than ever before. This isn't simply limited to school shootings; it goes far beyond that in my personal experience. Youth networking forums like the kind I'm trying to distance myself from are characterized by teenagers who react with genuine rage and even threats if you dare to call them on their immature blubbering. In their minds, I have no right to tell them that they're behaving like children or imbeciles, and neither does anyone else for that matter. The official line appears to be that it's impolite to do so, or at least something akin to that, and that felonies like harassment and assault are perfectly justified as responses. They are, to quote, "what's coming to you".

This article on MSNBC gives a clear idea of what I'm talking about:
NEW YORK - Today’s college students are more narcissistic and self-centered than their predecessors, according to a comprehensive new study by five psychologists who worry that the trend could be harmful to personal relationships and American society.

“We need to stop endlessly repeating ‘You’re special’ and having children repeat that back,” said the study’s lead author, Professor Jean Twenge of San Diego State University. “Kids are self-centered enough already.”

Twenge and her colleagues, in findings to be presented at a workshop Tuesday in San Diego on the generation gap, examined the responses of 16,475 college students nationwide who completed an evaluation called the Narcissistic Personality Inventory between 1982 and 2006.

The standardized inventory, known as the NPI, asks for responses to such statements as “If I ruled the world, it would be a better place,” “I think I am a special person” and “I can live my life any way I want to.”

The researchers describe their study as the largest ever of its type and say students’ NPI scores have risen steadily since the current test was introduced in 1982. By 2006, they said, two-thirds of the students had above-average scores, 30 percent more than in 1982.

We're all above average!
Narcissism can have benefits, said study co-author W. Keith Campbell of the University of Georgia, suggesting it could be useful in meeting new people “or auditioning on ‘American Idol.”’

“Unfortunately, narcissism can also have very negative consequences for society, including the breakdown of close relationships with others,” he said.

The study asserts that narcissists “are more likely to have romantic relationships that are short-lived, at risk for infidelity, lack emotional warmth, and to exhibit game-playing, dishonesty, and over-controlling and violent behaviors.”

Twenge, the author of “Generation Me: Why Today’s Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled — and More Miserable Than Ever Before,” said narcissists tend to lack empathy, react aggressively to criticism and favor self-promotion over helping others.

The researchers traced the phenomenon back to what they called the “self-esteem movement” that emerged in the 1980s, asserting that the effort to build self-confidence had gone too far.

‘I am special, I am special’
As an example, Twenge cited a song commonly sung to the tune of “Frere Jacques” in preschool: “I am special, I am special. Look at me.”

“Current technology fuels the increase in narcissism,” Twenge said. “By its very name, MySpace encourages attention-seeking, as does YouTube.”

Some analysts have commended today’s young people for increased commitment to volunteer work. But Twenge viewed even this phenomenon skeptically, noting that many high schools require community service and many youths feel pressure to list such endeavors on college applications.

Campbell said the narcissism upsurge seemed so pronounced that he was unsure if there were obvious remedies.

“Permissiveness seems to be a component,” he said. “A potential antidote would be more authoritative parenting. Less indulgence might be called for.”

The new report follows a study released by UCLA last month which found that nearly three-quarters of the freshmen it surveyed thought it was important to be “very well-off financially.” That compared with 62.5 percent who said the same in 1980 and 42 percent in 1966.

Yet students, while acknowledging some legitimacy to such findings, don’t necessarily accept negative generalizations about their generation.

Hanady Kader, a University of Washington senior, said she worked unpaid last summer helping resettle refugees and considers many of her peers to be civic-minded. But she is dismayed by the competitiveness of some students who seem prematurely focused on career status.

“We’re encouraged a lot to be individuals and go out there and do what you want, and nobody should stand in your way,” Kader said. “I can see goals and ambitions getting in the way of other things like relationships.”

Kari Dalane, a University of Vermont sophomore, says most of her contemporaries are politically active and not overly self-centered.

Enough about me, what do you think about me?
“People are worried about themselves — but in the sense of where are they’re going to find a place in the world,” she said. “People want to look their best, have a good time, but it doesn’t mean they’re not concerned about the rest of the world.”

Besides, some of the responses on the narcissism test might not be worrisome, Dalane said. “It would be more depressing if people answered, ‘No, I’m not special.”’
What needs to be done to redress this?
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Re: Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by Darth Wong »

TithonusSyndrome wrote:What needs to be done to redress this?
Only praise kids when they've actually done something praiseworthy. Let teachers tell kids when they're doing something wrong. Let teachers flunk kids who are useless. Did you know that modern elementary-school report cards can't contain negative comments? Instead of saying "Johnny does not work well with others", you have to say something like "Johnny prefers to work independently". Instead of saying "Johnny is falling behind in math", you have to say "Johnny is able to do math with some assistance".
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Re: Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by PeZook »

Darth Wong wrote: Did you know that modern elementary-school report cards can't contain negative comments? Instead of saying "Johnny does not work well with others", you have to say something like "Johnny prefers to work independently". Instead of saying "Johnny is falling behind in math", you have to say "Johnny is able to do math with some assistance".
Uhh...what? Huh?

My brain just shut down. What kind of justification could possibly be used for a retarded idea like that?
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Re: Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by Ace Pace »

PeZook wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Did you know that modern elementary-school report cards can't contain negative comments? Instead of saying "Johnny does not work well with others", you have to say something like "Johnny prefers to work independently". Instead of saying "Johnny is falling behind in math", you have to say "Johnny is able to do math with some assistance".
Uhh...what? Huh?

My brain just shut down. What kind of justification could possibly be used for a retarded idea like that?
/sarcasm
Don't you know that somehow implying that dear Johhny is not perfect is just wrong? He's a little angel who has special needs and special talents. Now shut up or i'll sue the school.
/sarcasm off.
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Re: Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by Azazal »

PeZook wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Did you know that modern elementary-school report cards can't contain negative comments? Instead of saying "Johnny does not work well with others", you have to say something like "Johnny prefers to work independently". Instead of saying "Johnny is falling behind in math", you have to say "Johnny is able to do math with some assistance".
Uhh...what? Huh?

My brain just shut down. What kind of justification could possibly be used for a retarded idea like that?
The massive push that been going on for some years now that we can't hurt children's feelings because their self esteem is too fragile to handle criticism. To add to what Mike said, kids will get trophies just for showing up at a sporting event, doesn't matter if they played, if they won or lost, everyone gets a trophy. Hell some kid events don't even keep score, they let the kids play and say that everyone one won.
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Post by TithonusSyndrome »

The article cites the self-esteem movement of the 1980's, to which I've had my fair share of exposure. It didn't take me long to smell bullshit, though, and eventually see the wisdom of what Tyler Durden would later say:
Chuck Palahniuk wrote:You are not special. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.
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Post by Mr. T »

If I ruled the world, it would be a better place,” “I think I am a special person” and “I can live my life any way I want to.”
:wtf: Those are the questions? Aside from possibly the first, they're not even close to being narcissistic.

I don't know if it's true or not, I sort-of grew up in this generation of kids so I don't even have any anecdotal evidence of what kids were like in the past. I'd imagine though that kids just conveniently have more outlets to showcase themselves in the forms of myspace, facebook and youtube now so they're using them.
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Post by The Guid »

I'd even argue that the first isn't that narcisstic. Would I rule the world and make it better? Sure I would. I can't be worse than a combination of vicous autocrats, tyrants, religous rulers, and the retard baby of the American royal family can I? Especially as I wouldn't spend my time kicking the shit out of myself.
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Re: Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by PeZook »

Azazal wrote:The massive push that been going on for some years now that we can't hurt children's feelings because their self esteem is too fragile to handle criticism. To add to what Mike said, kids will get trophies just for showing up at a sporting event, doesn't matter if they played, if they won or lost, everyone gets a trophy. Hell some kid events don't even keep score, they let the kids play and say that everyone one won.
It's somewhat insulting to the kids, though, isn't it? To say that the next generation is not strong enough to handle being told they lost a soccer game.

If an adult fails at something and does nothing but brood about it, we call him pathetic ; but how can he learn to deal with failure if he's pampered like above?

It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
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Post by TithonusSyndrome »

The Guid wrote:I'd even argue that the first isn't that narcisstic. Would I rule the world and make it better? Sure I would. I can't be worse than a combination of vicous autocrats, tyrants, religous rulers, and the retard baby of the American royal family can I? Especially as I wouldn't spend my time kicking the shit out of myself.
I don't think the test was designed with the current political climate in mind. Besides, the point is that a lot of those kids are so thick they'd be little better, if at all, than the current hegemon, and they can't even be honest with themselves about that.
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Post by Larz »

This is so damned true its not even funny. I'm finding that more and more of my peers (age 20-25) have this idea that they are entitled to special treatment, praise, and all that crap just because they are themselves. Furthermore (and what I think is the most detrimental) is that these same people refuse to take responsibility for anything bad about themselves or what they do instead casting the blame on anything and everything else.

I do feel this self-love ideology is a direct consequence of the unconditional praise without negative stimulus for doing poorly idea that is embodied by the everyone is special, unique, and perfect mode of thought. Bunch of garbage.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The self-esteem ideology is probably traceable to increasing levels of depression, paradoxically. Sooner or later, reality will come crashing into that comfortable fantasy world of platitudes and assurances, and when it does, the reaction won't be pretty.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I have to agree wholeheartedly with Mike on this. The cotton-wool covered world kids grow up in today within the West is breeding a kind of self-obsessed culture that feels it cannot be criticised in any way. This goes on to breed arrogance and selfishness, and it's no surprise after you've trawled the likes of MySpace for five minutes, that this is manifesting in many teens today with disturbing results.
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Post by Alferd Packer »

Once you get a job in the real world, most people tend to shape up pretty quick. Bosses have no problems firing shitty employees. Hell, college professors have no qualms about failing shitty students. The shock of going from a nurturing(stifling) high school environment to an indifferent college one has probably gotten worse, because the conditions upon which you were raised in your formative years are so far removed from the demands of "real life."
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Post by Darth Wong »

Alferd Packer wrote:Once you get a job in the real world, most people tend to shape up pretty quick. Bosses have no problems firing shitty employees. Hell, college professors have no qualms about failing shitty students. The shock of going from a nurturing(stifling) high school environment to an indifferent college one has probably gotten worse, because the conditions upon which you were raised in your formative years are so far removed from the demands of "real life."
Yeah, but then these punks decide to "retaliate" by killing the boss or teacher. Incidents of assault and attempted murder against teachers for giving bad grades are on the rise, because nobody does it until the kids are already arrogant and set in their ways.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

They try not to fire people on a Monday in the US, because statistically you're more likely to get someone going postal then.

Or was it a Friday? I forgot. Anyway, point is the same. People actually take into account the statistical probability of being blown away by disgruntled ex-employees.
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Post by RogueIce »

You know, this might just explain those idiots who will waste ten minutes of class time asking 100 questions about one damn project/test/etc (and those who get all shocked that there is no review/study guide/whatever). And I'm talking ten minutes per student.

I mean Christ, do they really think their stupid questions are so important they need to waste everybody else's time with it? If they are that damn clueless/lost about what's going on, ask the teacher after class or during office hours!

Man I don't know how much time (and technically tuition money) I have had wasted by those fuckers.
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Post by Darth Wong »

This kind of arrogance also helps explain why so many people no longer respect the superior education and knowledge of scientists. They think far too highly of themselves.
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Re: Are kids more narcisstic now than ever, and why?

Post by Azazal »

PeZook wrote:
Azazal wrote:The massive push that been going on for some years now that we can't hurt children's feelings because their self esteem is too fragile to handle criticism. To add to what Mike said, kids will get trophies just for showing up at a sporting event, doesn't matter if they played, if they won or lost, everyone gets a trophy. Hell some kid events don't even keep score, they let the kids play and say that everyone one won.
It's somewhat insulting to the kids, though, isn't it? To say that the next generation is not strong enough to handle being told they lost a soccer game.

If an adult fails at something and does nothing but brood about it, we call him pathetic ; but how can he learn to deal with failure if he's pampered like above?

It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
Correct, it is an insult to the kids, but since they haven't been exposed to anything else, they don't know and quickly come to except such treatment all the time.


Arm chair theory, so take with salt. A lot of parents are trying to life through their kids. Sure they have good jobs, provide food and a house fore their family, but in the materialistic society that has taken root in the US; they don't see this as enough. Since they can't go out and get that new Porsche or whatever, maybe their kid can. In their mind the only way for that to happen is if their kids are number 1 on everything. They can't let something get in the way of that. Ref calls a foul on little Susie during soccer, dad starts screaming at the ref and tries to browbeat them into taking back the call. Susie got a B in math, scream at the teacher that it's their fault for not teaching Susie correctly, she is plainly an A++ student and the teacher is too stupid to see this. Needless to say, the cycle goes on and on, Susie never receives real criticism because mommy and daddy intercept it and try to block it off. Then when Susie gets into the real world, she finds out that shit happens and she is not the second coming of christ, she can't buy mommy and daddy what they want, all because her parents never told her, “Dear you’re not going to win all the time. You will make mistakes, learn from them.”
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Since my parents will listen to Frederik Forsyth's (yes, the thriller author) words of wisdom on climate change in his op-ed piece within the Daily Express, rather than actual scientists on climate change, I can see that issue being pan-generational in effect.
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Post by Darth Wong »

As an example, the sensei at the local karate dojo was incensed at one parent who angrily complained that his kid wasn't advancing in belt levels quickly enough. He kicked the kid and his parents out of the dojo IIRC. So many kids seem to think that good grades are something you just buy, bully, or threaten your way into.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

But of course. What does a master of martial arts know about martial arts?

Though to use my earlier example, why should we trust climatologists on climate change when they can't predict the weather tomorrow accurately?
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Post by Edi »

I got told I was special by my parents. They also had no qualms about telling me very sharply when I fucked up, either. I went to school during the time when they gave you numeric report cards at school even at first grade, and you were told when you screwed up, and it did a lot of good that the teachers weren't afraid to give a full broadside to some of the useless asshats in the class. Especially the older, more experienced ones, they didn't stand for bullshit.

But the army was the real eye-opener, fucking A how many people just have no fucking clue whatsoever and think they are the hottest shit ever, so absorbed in their navel-gazing and surrounded by more idiots with the same attitude, all circle-jerking together. Not everyone, of course, but many enough.

It's fucking depressing.
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Post by PeZook »

Edi wrote:I got told I was special by my parents. They also had no qualms about telling me very sharply when I fucked up, either.
I think it's important to separate parental love from proper uprising ; All parents, everywhere, form the beginning of time, treat their kids as sacred little angels...untill they are old enough to understand some of the finer points of life, like "When you screw up, admit it, and then fix it." or "Nothing in life comes free."

It's not like you have to scorn your kid all the time ; It's all about striking the right balance.
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Post by Balrog »

It's quite obvious what must be done - we must go make these kids feel bad about themselves. It's your duty, for the sake of the future :D

On a serious note, what will it take to get parents to stop treating their children like fragile glass dolls? Do we need another "Great Depression"-type event before people stop thinking they're the shit and should be dealt with as such?
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