Harry Going To Iraq Or Not?

[Admiral Valdemar]

What's that? Iraq not safe anymore?

Harry will not quit, say friends

Friends of Prince Harry have denied reports that he will quit the Army if he is not allowed to serve in Iraq.

But they admitted he would be "very disappointed" to miss out, the BBC's royal correspondent has been told.

The Ministry of Defence is reviewing Harry's deployment after 11 UK troops were killed this month, one of the bloodiest since the conflict began.

Prime Minister Tony Blair has told reporters he would be "delighted" if his child wanted to serve in Iraq.

However, he also insisted Harry's future was "absolutely a matter for the military".

The MoD said the matter had always been under "constant consideration", and the final say will lie with head of the Army, General Sir Richard Dannatt.

But Sir John Nott, Conservative defence secretary during the Falklands War, told BBC News: "The danger is that Prince Harry will be hazarding the lives of other soldiers and young officers and I think that's not right."

Harry, 22, is currently set to go to Iraq within weeks and has been taking part in preparation exercises.

An MoD spokeswoman said: "It is still our intent that Prince Harry will deploy as a troop leader."

Clarence House refused to comment.

'Normal role'

As an officer, Harry would be in charge of 11 soldiers carrying out reconnaissance work using armoured fighting vehicles.

In February, Clarence House and the MoD confirmed the prince would be deployed to Iraq, saying he would take on a "normal troop commander's role" rather than a desk job.

But last week, two British soldiers died doing the same job Prince Harry would be expected to do during his six-month tour.

And earlier this month a Challenger tank was seriously damaged in an attack by Iraqi insurgents.

The BBC's Peter Hunt said Harry had always insisted he should not be treated differently because of his status.

"Harry would struggle with any decision, on the grounds of safety, to change his role and perhaps put him behind a desk in Basra," he said.

BBC defence correspondent Paul Wood said a "truly dreadful" month for British troops in Iraq had made plans for Prince Harry less certain.

"The problem is, it's not just a matter of one young, very brave, very honourable second lieutenant going to do the job they were trained to do."

'More fraught'

He added that there were concerns Harry could be kidnapped or become a "bomb magnet".

The deployment would make the prince the first royal to undertake a tour of duty in a war zone since the Duke of York served in the Falklands conflict in 1982.

Sir John said the issue of Harry's deployment was different from his uncle's because the war in Iraq was "much more fraught" and did not have "complete public support".

"It raises political and constitutional issues. The situation in Iraq is clearly extremely difficult, particularly with armoured cars."

I like how Blair would be "absolutely delighted" if one of his kids wanted to serve over there. Reminds me of that MP who forced his young daughter to eat a British burger during the BSE scare.

[Teleros]

He added that there were concerns Harry could be kidnapped or become a "bomb magnet".

That's the real problem - I've no problems with him serving out there but he is likely to be a "bomb magnet" - and thus so are the soldiers he's working alongisde...

[Teebs]

Prime Minister Tony Blair has told reporters he would be "delighted" if his child wanted to serve in Iraq.

That has to be one of the most bare-faced lies I've seen in politics. That or he actually is insane.

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's the real problem - I've no problems with him serving out there but he is likely to be a "bomb magnet" - and thus so are the soldiers he's working alongisde...

True, he will be a magnet for insurgent attacks. But you have to wonder, then, why Harry was even admitted to the military when the prospect of him serving in Iraq or A-stan was very real.

[loomer]

Prince Harry will most certainly be going to Iraq...

...They'll be renaming a section of the palace to Iraq. See? He really will go to Iraq that way.

[CJvR]

But you have to wonder, then, why Harry was even admitted to the military when the prospect of him serving in Iraq or A-stan was very real.

IIRC Andrew served during the Falklands campaign. Against a slightly civilized opponent there realy wouldn't be much of a problem but against terrorists the situation is very different.

[Dartzap]

The best way for him to have served would have entered as a Squaddie and be based in a squad who had no idea who he was (like those US troopers didn't know Rumsfeild) If none of them know who he is, the less they blab, the better, heh

[Lord Pounder]

It's all very well him serving, more power to him. But he has to realise that he's a danger to the men he serves with. As others have said he'd be a magnet for insurgent strikes. Worse than dying in an insurgent attack would be surviving such attack and having to live with the knowledge he is the reason his friends are dead.

[Dartzap]

Besides, do we really want a potential king to be even more nuts from PTSD than they currently are anyway?

[kheegster]

IIRC Andrew served during the Falklands campaign. Against a slightly civilized opponent there realy wouldn't be much of a problem but against terrorists the situation is very different.

I think Andrew was already serving on board the HMS Invincible when the Falklands got invaded and his ship got deployed along with his helicopter squadron. It would have been difficult to remove him from the unit since the deployment occurred so quickly. And in any case Andrew was only 3rd in line behind the throne after Charles and Edward.

I'm also not too sure how much better fighting a 'civilised' opponent trying to lob 500lb bombs at you from an A-4 Skyhawk is compared to Iraqi insurgents laying IEDs on your path. You'd be equally dead either way.

[kheegster]

Ghetto edit: I just realised that Prince Edward is younger than Andrew, so that makes Andrew 2nd in line to the throne.

[Raesene]

Ghetto edit: I just realised that Prince Edward is younger than Andrew, so that makes Andrew 2nd in line to the throne.

Fourth - William and Harry come before him as Sons of the current heir to the Empi.., äh, throne.

[Master Arachnos]

Ghetto edit: I just realised that Prince Edward is younger than Andrew, so that makes Andrew 2nd in line to the throne.

Fourth - William and Harry come before him as Sons of the current heir to the Empi.., äh, throne.

But did'nt at the time, which i think is the point Kheegster was trying to make...

[CJvR]

I'm also not too sure how much better fighting a 'civilised' opponent trying to lob 500lb bombs at you from an A-4 Skyhawk is compared to Iraqi insurgents laying IEDs on your path. You'd be equally dead either way.

Risk getting killed is part of the job, that is hardly the problem, other than on a personal level. Against a normal enemy he will be just another hostile soldier targeted for that reason. Against terrorists he will be a walking advertisment pillar representing months of headlines and enough political capital to be worth every effort.

[Raesene]

Ghetto edit: I just realised that Prince Edward is younger than Andrew, so that makes Andrew 2nd in line to the throne.

Fourth - William and Harry come before him as Sons of the current heir to the Empi.., äh, throne.

But did'nt at the time, which i think is the point Kheegster was trying to make...

True, I did not consider the Falklands War timeframe - sorry.

[Dargos]

[quote="CJvR] Against terrorists he will be a walking advertisment pillar representing months of headlines and enough political capital to be worth every effort.[/quote]

Even for "normal" enemys, Prince Harry would be a wonderful target to take out for the exact same reasons.

[FSTargetDrone]

Now he's got a bounty on his head:

Harry's head priced at $625,000

By Paul Kent in London

April 28, 2007 01:00am
Article from: Herald-Sun

* Officials confirm Iraq bounty on Prince
* Army chiefs fear fatal bombing was 'dry run'
* Militia group vows to cut off Harry's ears

A BOUNTY of $625,000 has been put on the head of Prince Harry once he lands in Iraq, government officials say.

Army chiefs fear an attack on two British soldiers last week was a practice run for an attempt to kill the prince.

Insurgents affiliated to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network are circulating the offer, sources at the Foreign Office and Defence Ministry confirm.

Iraqi troops and police are being tempted by the offer to break ranks and reveal the prince's whereabouts.

The bounty is for information leading to the prince's death.

He is expected to arrive as early as next month, but there is still debate in Britain as to whether Harry should go.

The chief fear is that soldiers under his command will come under greater threat, given the obvious target Britain's third in line to the throne would be.

Army chiefs fear a dry run in preparation to kill the prince has already been made.

An attack last week was on the same type of vehicle the prince will use and took place in the part of the country where he is due to be deployed.

Two soldiers died when their Scimitar was hit by a roadside bomb.

Harry will command four Scimitars and 11 troops.

The prince has told friends he is "not afraid to die", saying after coping with the death of his mother, Princess Diana, he is ready to handle the rigours of operations.

But the attack has meant a last-minute review.

Army chiefs have drawn up contingency plans to fly Harry to Kuwait if they believe a base has come under attack because he is a target.

Militia leaders say they have downloaded photographs of the prince from the internet and distributed them among insurgent groups.

Already one militia group has declared its intention to kill the prince.

Abu Zaid, commander of the Malik Ibn Al Ashtar Brigade of the Shia militia group the Medhi Army, has vowed to cut off Harry's ears.

"We are awaiting the arrival of the young, handsome, spoilt prince with bated breath, and we confidently expect he will come out into the open on the battlefield," he said.

"We will be generous with him. For we will return him to his grandmother, but without ears," he said.

Last month was the deadliest for British soldiers: 11 were killed, bringing the total of dead to 145.

Harry is a second lieutenant with the Household Cavalry's Blues and Royals regiment, and has threatened to quit if he is not sent to Iraq with the rest of his regiment.

As an aside, what's this business about him wanting to "quit" if he isn't sent to Iraq? Can he do that? Surely he has no choice in the matter as to where he is or isn't sent?

[Dartzap]

He thinks that there is no point in him joining the Forces, training with his men, getting to know them, for them then to be sent to Iraq without him, since he thinks that it would have been a huge waste of time and he does nott want to be not there if one of his troops gets killed.

As for quitting... weeeelll. Buck House has 630 rooms, I'm sure he can go get lost in there somewhere

[FSTargetDrone]

He thinks that there is no point in him joining the Forces, training with his men, getting to know them, for them then to be sent to Iraq without him, since he thinks that it would have been a huge waste of time and he does nott want to be not there if one of his troops gets killed.

As for quitting... weeeelll. Buck House has 630 rooms, I'm sure he can go get lost in there somewhere

I understand (though one wonders, as has been pointed out repeatedly, how will he feel if one or more of his men are killed because he is a noteworthy target) but what choice does he have? Doesn't he appreciate that, like it or not, because of his family, he is a special target? Is he so arrogant to think that his being in Iraq is worth the lives of his men?

[Dartzap]

At the moment its because he has to prove he is his own person, and not your stereotypical Royal. If his dad and uncle can manage to go into the military and serve in an active war zone (Allright, maybe Charles didn't, but you get the idea) then why can't he?

He's just yet anouther young bloke who wants to prove he can do a real job, except this one has to prove he can do it without the Butler helping him.

[FSTargetDrone]

At the moment its because he has to prove he is his own person, and not your stereotypical Royal. If his dad and uncle can manage to go into the military and serve in an active war zone (Allright, maybe Charles didn't, but you get the idea) then why can't he?

He's just yet anouther young bloke who wants to prove he can do a real job, except this one has to prove he can do it without the Butler helping him.

Seems like he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I understand him wanting him to do this, but his presence in a war zone such as Iraq, where he might be more recognized than elsewhere, seems like nothing but a liability.

[brianeyci]

I don't know man. If it was anything other than the military, I might agree with the "put people more at risk." But the military is supposed to handle any arbitrary amount of risk, it's their job. It might even help flush out insurgents. Meanwhile, it sounds like blame the victim mentality. If the insurgents are bombing shit, and all of a sudden decide that one person is important enough to go after, it is their fault, not that person's. Now you can counter by saying he doesn't need that job, but women don't need to wear "provocative" clothing either. And there's also the fact he's a national leader, or will be a national leader. And leaders have to lead by example. If the insurgents are going after him with a bomb, things are so bad in Iraq that you'd have to think that bomb would be used anyway, if not on him then on their neighbors or another armored vehicle without him in it.

[FSTargetDrone]

And there's also the fact he's a national leader, or will be a national leader. And leaders have to lead by example. If the insurgents are going after him with a bomb, things are so bad in Iraq that you'd have to think that bomb would be used anyway, if not on him then on their neighbors or another armored vehicle without him in it.

But he isn't the leader of his country. He's in line for the throne, yes , but doesn't that have essentially no real political power, especially compared to the prime minister? The regent doesn't set policy or make the laws, right?

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate his wanting to serve. Yet, I don't know if this is the best way for him to serve, considering the lives that may be put at additional risk because they have to protect him. The men he commands will potentially be under even greater risk, if this business of a bounty is true. Is Harry's getting life and leadership experience worth the lives of even one of his men? I don't know.

I likewise found fault with John McCain's little stroll through Baghdad a few weeks back, it being rather irresponsible, given the amount of extra security needed on hand to protect him and his group. And McCain is actively seeking the leadership of the US. And he's been in the military. Yet I felt he had no business being there, just to prove a political point.

[brianeyci]

One thing that destroys your argument FSTargetDrone, is that I am sure members of the British armed forces would consider it a pleasure to serve with Harry, regardless of the risk.

It's not comparable at all to McCain shaking hands with unwitting innocents and those innocents getting killed later.

As for him being or not being a leader, it's just a nitpick. He is some kind of leader, a representative of the British people, if not their government then their way of life, or else insurgents wouldn't be going after him. I wouldn't go so far to say he has an obligation to be there, but I wouldn't blame him if he wants to be there and feels as if he needs to be there.

[Aaron]

As an aside, what's this business about him wanting to "quit" if he isn't sent to Iraq? Can he do that? Surely he has no choice in the matter as to where he is or isn't sent?

His unit is in the rotation to be sent to Iraq, the MoD is discussing sending the unit without him. He can up and quit as I'm sure his education was not paid for by the military as a standard officers would be but rather he got in with a degree paid for by the the Royal Family and as such owes them no fixed term of service.