The generic Trektards never stop coming

[apocolypse]

Someone was claiming that this is the reason Trek ships don't use phasers to shoot down torpedoes at close range; it would actually cause more damage than letting them detonate maually.

I think that was me in regards to Trek's lack of PD. The episode in question was from Voyager, if it helps. Voyager shot down one of her own torpedoes in close proximity to two alien vessels to boost the explosion. I offered it as an in-universe reason as to why they don't try and shoot down incoming torpedoes.

[Darth Wong]

I can't believe the idiot Voyager writers copied a tactic from Unreal Tournament. Shock rifle blast for the win!

[Darth Servo]

I can't believe the idiot Voyager writers copied a tactic from Unreal Tournament. Shock rifle blast for the win!

Even though they copied so much else?

[bz249]

[quote="apocolypse"][quote="Starglider"]Someone was claiming that this is the reason Trek ships don't use phasers to shoot down torpedoes at close range; it would actually cause more damage than letting them detonate maually.[/quote]

I think that was me in regards to Trek's lack of PD. The episode in question was from Voyager, if it helps. Voyager shot down one of her own torpedoes in close proximity to two alien vessels to boost the explosion. I offered it as an in-universe reason as to why they don't try and shoot down incoming torpedoes.[/quote]

Then why do they use the torps in this way regularly? I guess it is not too hard to hit their own torpedo because they have some knowledge of its path?

[Balrog]

And, of course, what's to stop them from slapping a PD system on their ships that doesn't result in the torp's explosion increasing.

[rhoenix]

...Or adding a small phaser bank to a torpedo, so it could do the huge explosion all by itself, without requiring outside intervention?

Given the subject, I almost feel wrong for saying it, since this concerns Voyager, and doesn't involve Q masturbating, the Borg discussing therapy, or magical duct tape.

[Batman]

...Or adding a small phaser bank to a torpedo, so it could do the huge explosion all by itself, without requiring outside intervention?

It requiring a large calibre phaser to facilitate the more powerful explosion comes to mind as a possibility. Not that the entire idea isn't retarded to begin with.

[Starglider]

Then why do they use the torps in this way regularly? I guess it is not too hard to hit their own torpedo because they have some knowledge of its path?

...Or adding a small phaser bank to a torpedo, so it could do the huge explosion all by itself, without requiring outside intervention?

It requiring a large calibre phaser to facilitate the more powerful explosion comes to mind as a possibility. Not that the entire idea isn't retarded to begin with.

How is it that you people can type but not read? Scrolling up...

Of course if you accept this incident the logical question is 'why don't phototorps employ this yield-boosting method in normal use'. I can only assume that the effects of a capship-grade phaser shot cannot be simulated by equipment that can be crammed into a PT warhead and that ECM prevents them from pulling the 'shoot own torpedo right before impact' trick in normal combat.

As for...

And, of course, what's to stop them from slapping a PD system on their ships that doesn't result in the torp's explosion increasing.

Starfleet Battles has this - in 'Star Fleet Command: Orion Pirates' it's a rapid fire turreted hypervelocity projectile weapon that looks exactly like a Phalanx installation/gatling gun firing tracers when it shoots down incoming missiles. But then SFB also has drones, missile cruisers, missile spam and many other things that don't seem to have occurred to the canon writers.

[rhoenix]

How is it that you people can type but not read? Scrolling up...

Of course if you accept this incident the logical question is 'why don't phototorps employ this yield-boosting method in normal use'. I can only assume that the effects of a capship-grade phaser shot cannot be simulated by equipment that can be crammed into a PT warhead and that ECM prevents them from pulling the 'shoot own torpedo right before impact' trick in normal combat.

You're more guilty of attempting to apply common sense to ST:V than I am. We both know such a thing is blasphemy.

More seriously, I must've skimmed past it as I was reading through the thread.

[Batman]

How is it that you people can type but not read? Scrolling up...

I resent that. I'm not illiterate. Just extremely lazy. (IOW didn't reread the thread before replying to rhoenix' post. My bad.)

You're more guilty of attempting to apply common sense to ST:V than I am. We both know such a thing is blasphemy.

I was thinking 'WTH has TFF got to do with anything?' for a moment there before realizing you were talking about ST:VOY...
Not that the comment doesn't fit either way, mind you.

[apocolypse]

Then why do they use the torps in this way regularly? I guess it is not too hard to hit their own torpedo because they have some knowledge of its path?

Not quite sure myself. Although if memory serves the alien vessels were quite some distance away from Voyager. Perhaps as many skirmishes are fairly close ranged, it would present too great a danger to the Federation ship involved to utilize such tactics regularly. IIRC there was something in TNG about the E-D not wanting to fire torpedoes due to the other vessel being too close, and that would have resulted in just a standard explosion.

[rhoenix]

I was thinking 'WTH has TFF got to do with anything?' for a moment there before realizing you were talking about ST:VOY...
Not that the comment doesn't fit either way, mind you.

Yes, my comment was a bit ambiguous in retrospect.

However, the movie Star Trek V doesn't cause my suspension of disbelief to cry out in mortally wounded anguish. Needless to say, the show most certainly does.

[Darth Servo]

However, the movie Star Trek V doesn't cause my suspension of disbelief to cry out in mortally wounded anguish.

Do you accept their bullshit about really traveling to the center of the Galaxy?

[Starglider]

Do you accept their bullshit about really traveling to the center of the Galaxy?

That's not a suspension of disbelief problem - the entire crew being under the same rampant delusions as the religious nutcase isn't just plausible, it's the actual plot.

[Darth Wong]

Do you accept their bullshit about really traveling to the center of the Galaxy?

That's not a suspension of disbelief problem - the entire crew being under the same rampant delusions as the religious nutcase isn't just plausible, it's the actual plot.

Take a LOOK at it. That wasn't the centre of the galaxy. If someone says he's traveling to Mexico but you see eskimos and ice floes and Canadian flags, do you think "well, that's the plot"? No, you think "Hey, that's not Mexico".

[Stark]

I think he's saying the plot includes people joining crazy boy's cult, thus they would accept his 'rampant delusions'. He doesn't seem to be suggesting it was really the centre of the galaxy at all.

[CaptHawkeye]

I still wonder to this day how Shatner snuck that one by Roddenberry. I can see why he was never "decisive" on TFF's canonicity.

Take a LOOK at it. That wasn't the centre of the galaxy. If someone says he's traveling to Mexico but you see eskimos and ice floes and Canadian flags, do you think "well, that's the plot"? No, you think "Hey, that's not Mexico".

I don't think I can let this one get away without a sig.

[Starglider]

I think he's saying the plot includes people joining crazy boy's cult, thus they would accept his 'rampant delusions'. He doesn't seem to be suggesting it was really the centre of the galaxy at all.

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear, the whole plot was the crew being turned into brainwashed zombies by Sybok's personal brand of self-help therapy. Their bemused smiles, vacant stares and total lack of concern for possible threats (from the alien or the Klingons) makes this pretty obvious. As such they swallowed Sybok's 'nearby planet with an energy barrier around it is actually the centre of the galaxy' delusion without question. Presumably they were really embarassed in the debriefing.

Note: my partner bought the 'all ten Trek movies' boxed set recently, and I can confirm that even the official the text commentary on Trek 5 makes fun of this mistake.

[Bounty]

I think he's saying the plot includes people joining crazy boy's cult, thus they would accept his 'rampant delusions'. He doesn't seem to be suggesting it was really the centre of the galaxy at all.

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear, the whole plot was the crew being turned into brainwashed zombies by Sybok's personal brand of self-help therapy. Their bemused smiles, vacant stares and total lack of concern for possible threats (from the alien or the Klingons) makes this pretty obvious. As such they swallowed Sybok's 'nearby planet with an energy barrier around it is actually the centre of the galaxy' delusion without question. Presumably they were really embarassed in the debriefing.

Note: my partner bought the 'all ten Trek movies' boxed set recently, and I can confirm that even the official the text commentary on Trek 5 makes fun of this mistake.

The Final Frontier makes perfect sense. It's just misunderstood. Even by the people who actually made it.

[Darth Servo]

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear, the whole plot was the crew being turned into brainwashed zombies by Sybok's personal brand of self-help therapy. Their bemused smiles, vacant stares and total lack of concern for possible threats (from the alien or the Klingons) makes this pretty obvious. As such they swallowed Sybok's 'nearby planet with an energy barrier around it is actually the centre of the galaxy' delusion without question. Presumably they were really embarassed in the debriefing.

That would work except for the fact that the TOS holy trinity--Kirk, Spock and McCoy--weren't under the influence of Sybok's delusions.

[Batman]

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear, the whole plot was the crew being turned into brainwashed zombies by Sybok's personal brand of self-help therapy. Their bemused smiles, vacant stares and total lack of concern for possible threats (from the alien or the Klingons) makes this pretty obvious. As such they swallowed Sybok's 'nearby planet with an energy barrier around it is actually the centre of the galaxy' delusion without question. Presumably they were really embarassed in the debriefing.

That would work except for the fact that the TOS holy trinity--Kirk, Spock and McCoy--weren't under the influence of Sybok's delusions.

Spock and and McCoy WERE, for a time. The only one who refused Sybok's 'let me take your pain away' gambit outright was Kirk.
Of course, both Spock and Bones snapped out of it in plenty of time to realize that a) they had NOT spend the last several decades trying to get to the centre of the galaxy and b) the place the wound up in that supposedly was didn't look ANYTHING like the real thing.

[Patrick Degan]

Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear, the whole plot was the crew being turned into brainwashed zombies by Sybok's personal brand of self-help therapy. Their bemused smiles, vacant stares and total lack of concern for possible threats (from the alien or the Klingons) makes this pretty obvious. As such they swallowed Sybok's 'nearby planet with an energy barrier around it is actually the centre of the galaxy' delusion without question. Presumably they were really embarassed in the debriefing.

That would work except for the fact that the TOS holy trinity--Kirk, Spock and McCoy--weren't under the influence of Sybok's delusions.

Spock and and McCoy WERE, for a time. The only one who refused Sybok's 'let me take your pain away' gambit outright was Kirk.
Of course, both Spock and Bones snapped out of it in plenty of time to realize that a) they had NOT spend the last several decades trying to get to the centre of the galaxy and b) the place the wound up in that supposedly was didn't look ANYTHING like the real thing.

Spock was never under Sybok's influence even after the "reliving your pain" experience. If you recall, when Sybok first called for Spock and McCoy to accompany him, Spock stood his ground and calmly told him: "Sybok, you are my brother but you do not know me. I am not the outcast boy you left behind on Vulcan so long ago. Since that time, I have found myself and my place in the universe and it is here, with my shipmates. And I cannot go with you."

[tim31]

I know I'm tragically late with this, but here is an allegory of a generic trektard arguement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyN5xg6OCQs

[Lord_Sturm]

This ryan Doesn't sound like he has an Iq anywhere near 100 (the average). Trektards keep on getting dumber and dumber as evidenced by this e-mail.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Last time I'd heard average IQ was >80-<120