Sony vs Microsoft vs Apple

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2007-04-27 02:37pm

Each of these brands are competing for the "multi-media hub" of the living room. Microsoft and Sony are pushing it through the game consoles and gaming and competing head to head. Apple on the other hand is going through music and straight towards the multi-media route. Do you think Apple has a chance in this market? It is the underdog, but it is taking a different route than MS and Sony (Much like the Wii did in the gaming market). Just a though after I saw the Apple TV ad.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2007-04-27 02:46pm

It might have a chance, but not with the AppleTV.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-04-27 02:49pm

Apple is already well established in the music department, so any other companies will have to play catchup. Not so sure about the video department though, in that area Apple is definitely the underdog.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2007-04-27 04:21pm

Microsoft always has it patented strategy, throw money at the problem. Or rather undercut the other sides profits. Songs cost 1$, how much for a TV show? 2$? Not likley.

However brings the biggest library of TV and Video for the best price with an easy to use software package is going to win. In that arena Microsoft has the edge, it can build and sell some sort of fancy add on and take it onto Vista 2.0 or whatever they want to call Vista's first service pack. Apple's got a good system already in place but getting it out to everyone is going to be hard.

Unless of course we have a Sony worst nightmare where Apple and Microsoft team up to rule the video and music worlds, spiff up I-tunes, make it more crossplatform and copywrite protection friendly. Clean up Itunes and have MS do the copyprotecton and crossloading side and you might have something that will make Sony cry.

Will that ever happen? Most likley not, I can't see Apple going to MS or MS going to Apple with the specific intent to fuck over Sony.

But a man can dream...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-27 06:37pm

Anything has to be better than the '360 can stream only wma haha' situation.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-04-27 08:08pm

Though MS did bend over for the iPod, and there's a download that lets the 360 play (non Fairplay) .m4a and .aac files.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-27 08:22pm

Yah, I plug my iPod in and there's full functionality, but I can't stream non .wma video (or .wmv or whatever I wouldn't touch the fucking things). I see their 'use our codecs' point, but it makes the 360 almost worthless as a 'media centre' (don't get me started on 'wants to connect to a WMC PC' BULLSHIT). Just xvid would make it several million times more useful, and the 'media centre' idea for the 360 would instantly actually work.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-04-27 08:25pm

The spring update for the X360 will support MPEG-4 video.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-27 09:11pm

phongn wrote:The spring update for the X360 will support MPEG-4 video.

Is this due to the PS3? In any case, huzzah. What are the odds the update will kill my 360?

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2007-04-27 09:33pm

Didn't I hear apple want to come out a console called I-play? I can't be sure of it being a sure fact yet...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-27 09:40pm

ray245 wrote:Didn't I hear apple want to come out a console called I-play? I can't be sure of it being a sure fact yet...

I hope you're being facecious.

I did some poking but I couldn't find out what codecs PS3s natively support. I know you can get a player and stream media from a PSP, or that you can just install Linux or something, but if you're just using the menu and you want to play media, what sort of codec support does it have? I even tried wiki, and it's a hilarious 'zomg the PS3 is awesome' article with no negative statements.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2007-04-27 11:40pm

Does the PS3 web browser support flash? You could run a server to transcode on the fly to FLV and use that for the PS3 (works for Wii too, might try it if I ever get a Wii).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-28 12:11am

I've tried similar things for 360 (on-the-fly wmv conversion) but the quality is poor. I'm curious about the PS3 because a) it's Sony and b) it's supposed to be a 'media centre' thing. I figure MS finally implementing a decent format on the 360 may have been prompted by PS3 superiority in this regard, but then again PS3 might just be like other Sony closed-format devices.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-28 12:40am

The problem with Microsoft is that they market their solution to a specific audience: gamers. For people who just want to play media from their computers on their TVs, the XBox 360 isn't even on their radar.

It's purpose is to play game, and frankly, Microsoft would be stupid to market the console as a set-top box for playing media. They lose a ton of money on each console, and the whole point of their strategy is to recoup those losses through game licenses. People buying consoles for the primary purpose of playing media does nothing toward that end.

Sony, on the other hand, has just been making all the wrong decisions lately. Not only have they blown millions and millions on fruitless ventures like ATRAC and the abysmal Sony Music Store, but they've literally pissed off the tech crowd with insane DRM "protections" like the infamous root kit last year and DRM that their own DVD players don't support this year.

Meanwhile, Apple has more content than basically anyone and a full ecosystem on which to deploy it. They have consumer good will, and while the tech crowd may not like them, they generally hate Sony more for reasons mentioned before. Also, the Xbox 360 has so far proven insanely difficult to hack (although I think someone managed to bypass the firmware protections a month ago or so). Meanwhile, the AppleTV was hacked within a week of release. Even better, Apple has come out and said, "It's your hardware, do what you want with it. Just remember that you'll be voiding the warranty." So the AppleTV may not be a geek's wet dream for a set-top box in its stock configuration, but it's easily modifiable, and it's developing a rich community dedicating to developing custom plug-ins.

Apple has the brand awareness, the content, the hardware and the software. That's a grand slam.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2007-04-28 03:28am

It's purpose is to play game, and frankly, Microsoft would be stupid to market the console as a set-top box for playing media. They lose a ton of money on each console, and the whole point of their strategy is to recoup those losses through game licenses. People buying consoles for the primary purpose of playing media does nothing toward that end.

Actually, Microsoft stopped losing money on each 360 a number of months back and are actually making a bit of profit now. Source

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2007-04-28 03:40am

Excuse me but.. what the hell is Apple TV? I've never heard of the thing. And last I checked, they aren't particularly well known for video content, compared to audio.

Resinence · Post by **Resinence** » 2007-04-28 03:43am

It's a media center type "thing" (monstrosity) that can download and playback video as well as the standard iTunes stuff. http://www.apple.com/appletv/

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2007-04-28 03:46am

Icehawk wrote:
It's purpose is to play game, and frankly, Microsoft would be stupid to market the console as a set-top box for playing media. They lose a ton of money on each console, and the whole point of their strategy is to recoup those losses through game licenses. People buying consoles for the primary purpose of playing media does nothing toward that end.
Actually, Microsoft stopped losing money on each 360 a number of months back and are actually making a bit of profit now. Source

In the sense that "component costs + manufacturing costs - wholesale price of a Premium = -$75 according to iSuppli", yes. Of course, this assumes that iSuppli is correct (Bonus: ask Durandal about their iPhone teardown!).

And, even if they are correct, there are still more than enough overhead costs (like wasted Japanese marketing

) to make each sale a loss.

EDIT: Sign error!

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-28 04:26am

Nephtys wrote:Excuse me but.. what the hell is Apple TV? I've never heard of the thing. And last I checked, they aren't particularly well known for video content, compared to audio.

Check again. Three major movie studios are selling their content on iTunes along with a whole lot of networks.

Post by **weemadando** » 2007-04-28 05:33am

Durandal wrote:
Nephtys wrote:Excuse me but.. what the hell is Apple TV? I've never heard of the thing. And last I checked, they aren't particularly well known for video content, compared to audio.
Check again. Three major movie studios are selling their content on iTunes along with a whole lot of networks.

Only in the US AFAIK. I can't get Colbert Report, BSG or anything else through iTunes in Australia.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » 2007-04-28 07:31am

like wasted Japanese marketing

Hey!
i got my insanely cheap JP 360 thanks to it; continue MS; i love buying those 5000￥ games

Edit: 5000 yens of cours; not 5,000yens damn japanese numeration

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2007-04-28 08:30am

Durandal wrote:
Nephtys wrote:Excuse me but.. what the hell is Apple TV? I've never heard of the thing. And last I checked, they aren't particularly well known for video content, compared to audio.
Check again. Three major movie studios are selling their content on iTunes along with a whole lot of networks.

But they're only offering them in SD and you can't buy them directly from AppleTV but must use a computer as an intermediary, compared to the XB360 that offers both HD and direct buys. Sure, both are software issues that can be fixed with a firmware update, but for now, for a company that tends to make stuff that just works, their offering is both convoluted and has inferior image quality.

All three companies are fucking annoying with their intentional non-support (since a bunch of el-cheapo DVD players support it there really is no excuse) for .avi Xvid or Divx.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-04-28 01:42pm

The Apple TV's chances aren't bad at all; I was extremely surprised to find one running the big lobby display in my company's corporate office.

A lot of people have iPods and iTunes content.

The major oversight I see with it is the lack of SD support. I have no HDTVs and thus the Apple TV is useless to me. Also, $299 is too much. But I'm sure it'll drop price fairly quickly.

While the XBox 360 does offer direct purchasing of HD videos, you can't really take them anywhere BUT the 360.

They're very different machines, both with pros and cons. Apple crushes everyone in content, and it's portable. But it's in SD and doesn't work on an SDTV. Microsoft, however, is in HD. But there's less content available; WAY less.

Add to the fact that the 360 can only stream Microsoft compatible formats, so for the video-streamers, it's not very worthwhile; some ignorant home users encode in WMA as default, but not a ton of people have videos in WMV, not with DivX being so popular and Podcasts all being in MPEG-4 and H.264. AppleTV has access to all the podcasts.

And the 360's total lack of marketing towards the multimedia crowd hurts it. I've never seen anyone buy one as a multimedia streamer, only as a gaming machine, then finding out about the other abilities later.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-04-28 01:45pm

Icehawk wrote:
It's purpose is to play game, and frankly, Microsoft would be stupid to market the console as a set-top box for playing media. They lose a ton of money on each console, and the whole point of their strategy is to recoup those losses through game licenses. People buying consoles for the primary purpose of playing media does nothing toward that end.
Actually, Microsoft stopped losing money on each 360 a number of months back and are actually making a bit of profit now. Source

Yet the gaming division still posted a >300 million dollar loss this last quarter. The profits aren't making up for expenses.

Microsoft blamed low XBox 360 sales, high XBox 360 warranty costs (they keep breaking down and Microsoft just extended the warranty to a year), and Zune.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2007-04-28 02:02pm

The low sales is what kept the loss from being greater. The xbox360, AFAIK, is still a per unit loss(not due to hardware but anciliary costs).
They took the bigger hit Q4, by stuffing the channel and can now spend less money on hardware and just sell the damn things.