DW: Episode 2905, Evolution Of The Daleks (spoilers)

[Vegi]

What if Kaan meets up with the Master? Maybe he could help get the daleks out of their current state of virtual extinction. Now the whole issue of why he would do such a thing is another matter....

[Vegi]

Also, as far as we know Davros is still out there. His last appearance was in Remembrance of the Daleks. The Doctor tricked him into activating the hand of omega, which caused the dalek homeworld skaros' sun to go supernova, not only destroying skaros, but also the dalek mothership. As the feedback was comming to the mothership Davros activated his escape pod.

This is assuming he did not die in the time war. I know all the daleks supposedly died in the time war, but Davros was never a Dalek. He created the Daleks once, maybe he could do it again?

[Stark]

Sorry, Davros is almost certainly a casualty of the Time War. He's not 'out there' just because we saw his excape pod fly away - the Dalek empire is *gone*, all their shit is gone, their homeworld is gone. Rememberance was probably the second engagement leading directly to the Time War, which was NOT run by Davros but the Dalek Emperor backed by the Cult. All but Davros' faction hated his guts - and they were the ones based on Skaro who got toasted.

He's also stupid lameass character I hope they never bring back. Worst thing to happen to the Daleks. Don't even remind me about Peel's retarded 'zomg u blewz up skaro now there are no daleks even though they rule five galaxies and have time travel i am an idiot' nonsense.

Call me crazy, but Caan is almost certainly completely fucked somewhere in Earth's history. He barely made the jump at all - it was much slower than Sec's in Doomsday - and now he's even LOWER on power, so he's blinder, deafer, has weaker shields, and his gun sucks even MORE.

The idea of the Master working with the last example of a race that destroyed his race is simply absurd. He doesn't need them, doesn't trust them, there's only one of them, and they HATE him. If the new Doctor Who degenerates to such comicbook writing levels I hope I don't have to see it.

[Dartzap]

There was a cliché that they forgot to use in this episode - The Daleks should have had weakened guns when they killed Solomon, and he should have survived due to the power shortage!


Instead, we get our standard red-shirt scenario. Excellent.

[Stark]

What about Diagoras' skull being intact, so that when he was shot it was a purely human skeleton showing? The Dalek is just sort of sitting on his head! Two brains in just one body!

The Dalek guns are kind of interesting - when they fly they fire 'bolts' (makes sfx easier I guess) but on the ground the fire beams like usual (if slowly). The Dalek handguns also fired bolts.

Building a thousand laser guns is kind of impressive for 30s New York.

[Bounty]

What about Diagoras' skull being intact, so that when he was shot it was a purely human skeleton showing? The Dalek is just sort of sitting on his head! Two brains in just one body!

No, he had a one-eyed cyclops skull, not a normal human one.

[Stark]

Really? I only remember his skull being visible from the side, with the 'external brain' being clearly outside the skull. I didn't notice the eyeholes.

[Zac Naloen]

Really? I only remember his skull being visible from the side, with the 'external brain' being clearly outside the skull. I didn't notice the eyeholes.

Look again


There was definately a Cyclops skull.

I thought it was a fairly good episode, this seasons isn't as good as season 2 yet though..

[andrewgpaul]

I doubt we'll see any non-Time War Daleks, or Davros. The new series is closer to the style of the Battlestar Galactica remake - an entirely new series, but with references to the old - than simply continuing the old run. Everything that has been carried over from the old series is either explained anew - the Daleks, Autons, K-9, Cybermen - or simply referred to in passing - UNIT, the Macra, the Cyberman head in Dalek.

[Vanas]

Hmm. Hybrid Sec certainly made that episode. A truly interesting, tragic character. In the theatre it didn't seem the Dalek shields were up when they were being blasted by the Tommy Death-Rays, though I am surprised they didn't even think of withdrawing. Surely they'd know how much they can take before exploding?

Also: CAAAAAAAAAAN!

[petesampras]

Hmm. Hybrid Sec certainly made that episode. A truly interesting, tragic character. In the theatre it didn't seem the Dalek shields were up when they were being blasted by the Tommy Death-Rays, though I am surprised they didn't even think of withdrawing. Surely they'd know how much they can take before exploding?

Also: CAAAAAAAAAAN!

I think they were up, you could see a red glow covering them whenever they were hit. If we can calculate the damage of dalek guns from the explosions in the earlier battle and get a good estimate of the number of hits on the Daleks in that battle, we can get an idea of how much punishment a TW Dalek can take. In terms of stupidity, though, why didn't Caan just activate the kill all function before Thay and whats-he-called got killed.

[NecronLord]

The tommy guns are not the same as the dalek guns, and needn't have the same power.

[Hitch Hiker]

Brilliant episode in my mind, the Dalek's appearing through the smoke in the theater was kinda cool. though Kahn using a temporal shift was just annoying. i think an easy way out would just be to say Kahn is the Dalek from 'Dalek' and be done with them. Although coming back allied with The Master would be interesting, they have formed alliances in the past. and on the plus side the Dalek's have already killed him once before.

[Hitch Hiker]

Just noticed that the Dalek's mentioned rells again while doing there countdown.

[Starglider]

I think an easy way out would just be to say Kahn is the Dalek from 'Dalek' and be done with them.

That would be neat, but the Cult of Skaro daleks interacted with Rose quite a bit in 'Doomsday', they seemed to know about the loss of the war to the Time Lords plus as I recall she told them that she'd destroyed the emperor and the rest of their race. The dalek in 'Dalek' didn't seem to know Rose and seemed surprised to hear that it was in fact the last Dalek. I suppose it's possible that the dalek was feigning ignorance, but it seems unlikely.

[petesampras]

I think an easy way out would just be to say Kahn is the Dalek from 'Dalek' and be done with them.

That would be neat, but the Cult of Skaro daleks interacted with Rose quite a bit in 'Doomsday', they seemed to know about the loss of the war to the Time Lords plus as I recall she told them that she'd destroyed the emperor and the rest of their race. The dalek in 'Dalek' didn't seem to know Rose and seemed surprised to hear that it was in fact the last Dalek. I suppose it's possible that the dalek was feigning ignorance, but it seems unlikely.

Just to put this theory to rest....

This is the Dalek from 'Dalek'...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/ ... 024/05.jpg

Here is a cult of Skaro Dalek...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/ ... 024/53.jpg

The cult of Skaro subordinates all have the same symbol with the bar in one of three places.

[Hillary]

Loved it. Best episode of the series imo.

I really enjoyed the way the "pure" Daleks kept looking at each other whenever Sec said anything controvesial.

"Yet you have.... doubts"
<Dalek looks around to see if anyone can hear>
"Affirmative"

The speech and extermination of the leader of Hooverville reminded me a lot of the Thal leader being killed in the original Dalek story.

Agree with Valdemar about the science - I rather thought it best to let the "DNA through lightening bolt" float over me. The idea was interesting enough to warrant stretching credulity.

A couple of questions though - why did the Doctor offer himself up in Hooverville? It's not like they would have spared everyone else, even if they had killed him - and without the Doctor there's no chance of the Daleks being defeated. My only explanation is that he knew that Sec wouldn't allow the Dalek to kill him and that this would create further confusion within the Dalek ranks. Hell of a risk though.

Secondly, why didn't Kaaaaan kill the Doctor before his temporal shift. I guess he may have not had enough power to do both or, more interestingly, he may have started to harbour doubts about the Daleks 'kill everyone' mentality after the recent events (the Cult of Skaro were instructed to use imagination after all). Seemed strange to me though.

The fact that Kaaaaaan had the chance to pull the plug on the hybrids before they blasted Thay and Juwhateverhisnameis has already been covered.

Dalek Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan to appear in this season's finale?

[GuppyShark]

"We imagined your irrelevance." Brilliant line.

[Lord Woodlouse]

I thought this was a nice improvement over last week (which was also fun, but I had big doubts about). I really liked Sec, and I'm kinda sorry they killed him off because he'd be an interesting character to have around again.

I suspect that when we next see Caan he'll be in the future, and with the technology of the time much better able to jump-start Dalek-kind once again. If those Daleks had jumped into the future they'd have had no problem.

[Big Orange]

I thought this was a nice improvement over last week (which was also fun, but I had big doubts about). I really liked Sec, and I'm kinda sorry they killed him off because he'd be an interesting character to have around again.

I found Human Sec to be an interesting and saddening character, although I wonder how he developed ethics and mercy when his human template was the rather unscrupulous Mr Diagoras, a bad guy who didn't mind turning in innocent people for Dalek experiments and abusing New York's working class.

I suspect that when we next see Caan he'll be in the future, and with the technology of the time much better able to jump-start Dalek-kind once again. If those Daleks had jumped into the future they'd have had no problem.

I had the impression that New York of 1930 was chosen because it offered adequate technology and was much more low key than any future world where they (the Daleks) were bound to attract more attention.

[petesampras]

I thought this was a nice improvement over last week (which was also fun, but I had big doubts about). I really liked Sec, and I'm kinda sorry they killed him off because he'd be an interesting character to have around again.

I found Human Sec to be an interesting and saddening character, although I wonder how he developed ethics and mercy when his human template was the rather unscrupulous Mr Diagoras, a bad guy who didn't mind turning in innocent people for Dalek experiments and abusing New York's working class.

You are assuming it came solely from the human. Sec was clearly very different in his thinking even before the combination. The other daleks were against him becoming a hybrid. Maybe, the combination with a human made him even more of a free thinker, rather than a nicer person. His main reason for wanting the Daleks not to be so nasty was that it would lead to their eventual destruction.

I will add, I think Sec is one of the most interesting characters Dr who has produced in a long time - a real shame they have killed him off.

I suspect that when we next see Caan he'll be in the future, and with the technology of the time much better able to jump-start Dalek-kind once again. If those Daleks had jumped into the future they'd have had no problem.

I had the impression that New York of 1930 was chosen because it offered adequate technology and was much more low key than any future world where they (the Daleks) were bound to attract more attention.

Yes, a more advanced society could have posed a threat to just 4 Daleks with low power after ETSing.

[Imperial Overlord]

Jumping ahead in time to one of the Daleks invasions/operations on Earth and grabbing some of the Daleks from those doomed operations to transport elsewhere and revive the race with would be an option I would consider in Caan's place.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Yes, a more advanced society could have posed a threat to just 4 Daleks with low power after ETSing.

Which is only a concern until the Daleks themselves get hold of a power socket.

[Lost Soal]

I thought this was a nice improvement over last week (which was also fun, but I had big doubts about). I really liked Sec, and I'm kinda sorry they killed him off because he'd be an interesting character to have around again.

I found Human Sec to be an interesting and saddening character, although I wonder how he developed ethics and mercy when his human template was the rather unscrupulous Mr Diagoras, a bad guy who didn't mind turning in innocent people for Dalek experiments and abusing New York's working class.

However ruthless the human was, he still had all the requisite feelings and had grown up with them. Sec on the other hand suddenly has all these emotions thust on him and is incapable of overcoming the natural human horror that his own kind induce.

Plus half the stuff Diagoras did was likely out of self preservation and fear of the DALEKS

[Starglider]

The ridiculous non-science didn't bother me much - I've accepted that the current Doctor Who series (and Torchwood) cares not one jot about plausibility. What ruined the episode was the ridiculous strength of the character shields, even moreso than the first part.

I hope they don't use 'Emergency Temporal Shift' to often.

The main problem with that was, why didn't Cann shot the doctor then shift? What's the point of yelling 'exterminate' then not actually shooting? It just totally weakens the threat.

Who voted two? Am I going to have to wipe this poll and make it work the other way around?

I only gave it a two because the concepts were good. The execution (on the writing side) was hideous. There was just no need for all that plot exposition from Sec, or the Daleks being so incompetent - it could've been written to have the doctor finding out more by investigation and having narrow escapes from being exterminated without incurring any more production costs.

(Davros is) also stupid lameass character I hope they never bring back. Worst thing to happen to the Daleks. Don't even remind me about Peel's retarded 'zomg u blewz up skaro now there are no daleks even though they rule five galaxies and have time travel i am an idiot' nonsense.

Seconded. He was great in 'Genesis' and fairly good in 'Revelation', but other than that he sucked and weakened the Daleks as a whole.

Hybrid Sec certainly made that episode. A truly interesting, tragic character.

True but he wasn't enough to overcome the awful writing.

In the theatre it didn't seem the Dalek shields were up when they were being blasted by the Tommy Death-Rays, though I am surprised they didn't even think of withdrawing. Surely they'd know how much they can take before exploding?

Dalek reaction times were awful. Note Cann didn't decide to kill the human-daleks until the battle was over. He should've killed them the second they refused to obey orders, instead of allowing the fight to occur.

Jumping ahead in time to one of the Daleks invasions/operations on Earth and grabbing some of the Daleks from those doomed operations to transport elsewhere and revive the race with would be an option I would consider in Caan's place.

The main problem with that is it brings up the possibility of the Doctor saving some of the Time Lords, which he seems to have discounted. At the very least an attempt to do this should cause major paradoxes and Father's Day-type issues.