USA Democratic Agenda, 2012-2028

[Enforcer Talen]

Sliding the topic back to the policy, not just the navy. . .

Does the OP address the points from the previous oil threads? I am trying to get every necessary bit in there, validity of it happening not included. The idea is a Dem Prez and Congress in 2012 who will do what must be done.

With that in mind, is it over all correct?

[Darth Wong]

It'll never be hard for them to reach Canada, unfortunately for me. If life carries on for me but I simply have to endure a different-looking map when I wake up in the morning, that'd be acceptable, but if not then I want to consider moving to some of the other countries that have ample farmland and great nuclear ambitions as suggested here.

All of those countries will experience serious unrest as well. Europe in particular will face great migratory pressure from nearby Africa and the Middle East once the oil runs out and global warming becomes more severe.

[His Divine Shadow]

With the British, I might add. We'll be too busy beating the Norwegians up to come to your aid this time.

And we'll support the norweigans against your foreigners and your invasions, unfortunately sweden is in the way so they'll have to be conquered. Not a big feat since they are all busy wearing nudie jeans for 6 months before washing them.

[Enforcer Talen]

So Ive been mulling this over, with a couple of minor adjustments:

Legalize drugs for 18+. The high tax rate for it will go to the public works projects. Grab every nonviolent criminal, and offer to have them work off their time, and pay them living wages. Thats an easy million people to start digging.

Adding a dollar per semester to oil will destroy several industries - this will also add to the numbers for working parties. Also, move all the money from road infrastructure to train infrastructure, and start a massive program for nuke plants.

[Mr. T]

This still assumes an awful lot. Firstly, that the USA exists post-peak. There are concerns that many areas consisting of several states, will secede from the union and go it alone, amid desperate measures from the Feds to keep everyone running smoothly. It's not like there aren't people out there who want to form their own standalone complexes within the US. The south will definitely object to such totalitarian rules from Washington to steer through the end of the oil age.

In that case the U.S might be best served by just allowing if not out-right encouraging the Southern states to secede. More knowledgeable members can correct me if I'm wrong but the U.S doesn't have any critical resources in the South (aside from oil in Texas and a few ports), so letting the Bible belt form their own country would mean the U.S has fewer energy/food starved citizens to have to look after and could just let those states go to shit so the rest of the country gets a better shot of organizing the limited resources enough to pull through the crisis.

Obviously this is easier said then done, but would the U.S not be better served by just giving the South what they've always wanted and cutting off this low skilled, poverty stricken cancer to the country whose major industry: automobile production, wil promptly go bankrupt in the new economic order?

All the U.S loses is some agricultural land and in exchange the U.S gets a lower, perhaps more sustainable population that can make their oil stretch out a bit longer (perhaps much longer as we're talking about losing millions of petroleum hungry Southerners), and a smaller population to have to provide with food and water. Meanwhile the seceding states would promptly go to shit through either not being able to form a government, or not being able to depend on money from the Federal government paid for by the rest of the U.S to keep their economies running, much less deal with an oil crisis.

The U.S would however would have to inevitable stop all the resulting economic refugees from flooding the country once the South realizes how screwed they are.

[Enforcer Talen]

Heh - I can picture letting the South secede, but grabbing Canada to maintain balance.

[wolveraptor]

Because it's fucking blistering in the South, there's a much higher energy use per household, in terms of the AC and such. It's easy to insulate a house against the cold, without having to use the heater, but in the summer, you can't really get the house any cooler than the shade outside. I.E. southern houses would be expensive to maintain. Fuck 'em.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Because it's fucking blistering in the South, there's a much higher energy use per household, in terms of the AC and such. It's easy to insulate a house against the cold, without having to use the heater, but in the summer, you can't really get the house any cooler than the shade outside. I.E. southern houses would be expensive to maintain. Fuck 'em.

Best bet would be to popularize galvanized roofing and white paint. Some godforsaken reason black roof shingles are all the rage here. That's at least half the problem right there.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I suggest the US get some damn refineries and stat.

By some estimates, the US has another 24 hours before mass shortages occur in the gasoline system.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

I suggest the US get some damn refineries and stat.

By some estimates, the US has another 24 hours before mass shortages occur in the gasoline system.

Explain please?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Well, the inventory for refined product is down to the lowest levels nearly in history, around 190 Mbbl. When the reserves go below that level, the efficieny of the distribution system falters and any slack is used up. So if this demand keeps going at the present rate, barring anything major happening in the near future, shortages will get more common and may culminate in a mass hysteria of petrol hoarding this summer once people figure out what is happening.

That will likely be if the US gov't starts rationing fuel, which sends warning signals out. We're not even in driving season yet and the reserves are essentially gone. Did I mention the chaos fuel shortages caused in the past?

[sketerpot]

So if this demand keeps going at the present rate, barring anything major happening in the near future, shortages will get more common and may culminate in a mass hysteria of petrol hoarding this summer once people figure out what is happening.

Did you say "this summer"?

As in, something that I can't just dismiss as being part of the far-off, unpredictable future?

[Darth Wong]

Meh, I'm resigned to seeing gas hit $2/L this year. I can live with that. It should be funny seeing the SUV owners whine and complain, though.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Did you say "this summer"?

As in, something that I can't just dismiss as being part of the far-off, unpredictable future?

Depending on where you are now, there are already shortages. I think many places in California and Oregon have either $4 gas or no gas.

[Guardsman Bass]

Did you say "this summer"?

As in, something that I can't just dismiss as being part of the far-off, unpredictable future?

Depending on where you are now, there are already shortages. I think many places in California and Oregon have either $4 gas or no gas.

It's close in some parts, but not quite there yet statewide. According to this, one town is at $3.99/gallon as of Yesterday, with San Francisco sitting at $3.602/gallon.

[Guardsman Bass]

The data for San Francisco is bad, if accurate, since according to Department of Energy, its average gas price as of 04/30/07 was $3.462/gallon of regular gas. Meaning that the price of regular gas in San Francisco went up a 14 cents in four days. I don't know how bad that is, though; I've heard the California's gas prices can fluctuate more than the rest of the states' do.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I've had some people in Sacramento say they're paying $4.16 for super.



That was somewhere else in Cali.

[Guardsman Bass]

That's not surprising for premium- the "$3.99/gallon" price listed in the article for the town of Lee Vining was for regular, so I'd bet dollars to donuts that the Premium price there is probably north of $4.20/gallon.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I think regular was around $4 already, but can't find the post that stated what precisely. The super price was all I could recall, because it's damn high. There are other people from other states saying pretty much the same thing, so either way, say goodbye to below $3 gasoline. Forever, most likely.

Unless demand drops off a great deal, the refineries are simply going to be unable to cope and there are no imports to save you like after Katrina.

[J]

It's a good sign that things are going south when Bloomberg stops listing the gasoline inventory numbers in their energy sector reports. Rather, they just say "inventory falls were larger than expected" or "there was a 1.6% decline in inventories this week". How much is left? They won't tell you, you have to look it up yourself on the weekly DOE inventory report.

[Enforcer Talen]

Damn, and I was bitching about 3 dollars in boston.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Bloomberg talk out of their backside half the time, like any economist or analyst. They swallow with great satisfaction the whole "We're just having a problem thanks to politics" or "Don't worry, TECHNOLOGY will save the day!" bullshit.

Just read what the press is saying about this and what the avereage American thinks. It's fucking price gouging and those Big Oil honchos and A-rabs with 10 cent gasoline need to pay dearly for it. If you even hint at it being because soccer moms drive 10 MPG Hummers for the school run, you're just a stupid commie.