Seperatist Vs Federation

[Surlethe]

They throw weaker ships then the imps...

True. No one disputes that. But you have to show how these weaker ships than the Imperials are somehow many orders of magnitude weaker in such a way as to be laughably vulnerable to Federation weaponry.

Lord_Shiturm seems to be under the black-and-white impression that Sci-fi powers fall into discrete categories of power level, probably something like this: B5 < UFP < Empire < Culture. Therefore, since the Separatists are weaker than the Empire, they must be equal in strength to the Federation.

[CaptHawkeye]

They throw weaker ships then the imps...

True. No one disputes that. But you have to show how these weaker ships than the Imperials are somehow many orders of magnitude weaker in such a way as to be laughably vulnerable to Federation weaponry.

Lord_Shiturm seems to be under the black-and-white impression that Sci-fi powers fall into discrete categories of power level, probably something like this: B5 < UFP < Empire < Culture. Therefore, since the Separatists are weaker than the Empire, they must be equal in strength to the Federation.

I just love his logic. Using it, we can infer that since the Empire of Impieral Japan was defeated by the Americans, they would be of equal competition to Julius Ceasar's Roman Army.

[NecronLord]

What's worse is that he doesn't comprehend that not all the Seperatist ships are weaker than all imperial ships. Sure, a Lancrehulk is supposedly quite weak - it's also huge, and mounts some very large reactors. A later war era Lancrehulk, with heavy turbolasers, was, as I recall, quite a formidable proposition for destroyer class vessels.

They even designed a Death Star, and if Saxton's hypothesis is accepted, commenced building their Great Weapon. The idea that they're substantially weaker, pound for pound, than the Galactic Empire, is rather intellectually lazy. They weren't consolidated in power like the Empire was, but still not that much weaker.

[Surlethe]

What's worse is that he doesn't comprehend that not all the Seperatist ships are weaker than all imperial ships. Sure, a Lancrehulk is supposedly quite weak - it's also huge, and mounts some very large reactors. A later war era Lancrehulk, with heavy turbolasers, was, as I recall, quite a formidable proposition for destroyer class vessels.

It took a "flotilla" of Venators to take down a Lucrehulk. I think we hashed out a few months ago that "flotilla" meant 4-6, right? That right there is more than enough firepower to destroy the Federation as a political unit.

They even designed a Death Star, and if Saxton's hypothesis is accepted, commenced building their Great Weapon. The idea that they're substantially weaker, pound for pound, than the Galactic Empire, is rather intellectually lazy. They weren't consolidated in power like the Empire was, but still not that much weaker.

Not that much weaker, indeed. The Separatists controlled much of the industrial and corporate strength of the Republic (and soon-to-be Empire): enough that the secession crippled the economy of the Republic, as I recall.

[Imperial Overlord]

The Separatists lasted for years in full scale war against the Republic and were defeated by Sidious engineering their political collapse, not destruction of their armed forces. That alone tells you the CIS is way out of Trek's league.

[NecronLord]

It took a "flotilla" of Venators to take down a Lucrehulk. I think we hashed out a few months ago that "flotilla" meant 4-6, right? That right there is more than enough firepower to destroy the Federation as a political unit.

With the number of fighters and troops those things carry, they would probably be far better at controlling worlds, too. They're actually very dangerous.

[Stark]

The seps for my purposes get the useless R5's which can't repair squat before they malfunction (useless little thing's arent they).

Sorry, troll. Ignore/ban. It was already suspicious that he had almost zero activity for three weeks - until Pwnage ran away - but this is clear zero-contribution stuff. Do I have to point out how he's completely ignoring everything just to post meaningless almost unintelligible one-liners?

[Kuja]

Ten years before the beginning of the Clone Wars, the Trade Federation deployed sevral dozen mile-wide ships to blockade a planet. They subsequently landed an army of thousands of soldiers supported by recon, transport, armour, air forces, and heavy artillery.

They defeated and all but annihilated an opposing force of thousands which had their own heavy artillery and shield defense.

This is the foundation the CIS had to build up from, and they had ten years to do so. Think about it.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Hell, when you think about that, the fucking Gungans could probably swat the UFP like a horsefly.

[Starglider]

Hell, when you think about that, the fucking Gungans could probably swat the UFP like a horsefly.

If they got hold of some reasonable sized ships with the usual SW tech base, then yes. Otherwise, no.

[MagnusTheReD]

Hell, when you think about that, the fucking Gungans could probably swat the UFP like a horsefly.

They go any FTL capable warships? They got any spaceships at all?

Though it would be interesting to watch those two forces engage in ground combat!

[TithonusSyndrome]

Hell, when you think about that, the fucking Gungans could probably swat the UFP like a horsefly.

If they got hold of some reasonable sized ships with the usual SW tech base, then yes. Otherwise, no.

If they can build submersibles that can travel through the hollows of Naboo and share the planet with the FTL-capable Naboo humans, I don't think it'd be a stretch to suggest that they could cobble together something able to bring down the Feds in not too long a time.

[NecronLord]

To be fair, impractical as those gungan balls were, they have serious punch. Imagine if they hit a goldshirt. It'd be blood and pieces of charred flying bone... everywhere.

[CaptJodan]

To be fair, impractical as those gungan balls were, they have serious punch. Imagine if they hit a goldshirt. It'd be blood and pieces of charred flying bone... everywhere.

Well the fact that Federation red/gold shirts are overcome by Klingons with Bat'leth's on a regular basis is already a step against them. Their personal shields may even reflect phaser fire as it did with blaster fire. If nothing else, it would be something of a tough battle for both sides.

[TithonusSyndrome]

To be fair, impractical as those gungan balls were, they have serious punch. Imagine if they hit a goldshirt. It'd be blood and pieces of charred flying bone... everywhere.

Well the fact that Federation red/gold shirts are overcome by Klingons with Bat'leth's on a regular basis is already a step against them. Their personal shields may even reflect phaser fire as it did with blaster fire. If nothing else, it would be something of a tough battle for both sides.

Gungans win, hands down. Theirs is a warrior culture not unlike the Klingons, but suggesting more competence and understanding of logistics. I've seen art suggesting that they took the fight to battle droids using melee weapons. You draw your own conclusions.

[fusion]

To be fair, impractical as those gungan balls were, they have serious punch. Imagine if they hit a goldshirt. It'd be blood and pieces of charred flying bone... everywhere.

Well the fact that Federation red/gold shirts are overcome by Klingons with Bat'leth's on a regular basis is already a step against them. Their personal shields may even reflect phaser fire as it did with blaster fire. If nothing else, it would be something of a tough battle for both sides.

Even worst would be the theater shields, which would probably would be able to repel the orbital support (at least the phasers and maybe even the trops, but most likely not).

To the not very lordly Lord_Sturm, read the topic about the smallest starship that can destroy the federation and get an friggin' idea. A single corvette can destroy the feds if it had enough fuel (which might be possible). Now get a clue!

[Kuja]

Hell, when you think about that, the fucking Gungans could probably swat the UFP like a horsefly.

They go any FTL capable warships? They got any spaceships at all?

Though it would be interesting to watch those two forces engage in ground combat!

They colonized the primary moon of Naboo following Episode One. It wouldn't be a stretch to suggest that they started developing or buying/borrowing thier own ships when they did so.

[Darth Fanboy]

In a previous discussion on this board it was determined that the Trade Federation alone could handle the UFP. With the rest of the CIS there isn't even any discussion. Especially when there is a strong chance that the Droids of the CIS outnumber the entire population of the UFP. Especially when Dooku mentions in EpII that 10,000 planets have joined the Seps (the UFP consisting of 150+ only). Especially General Greivous would decimate every hostile population he came across and leave little or nothing for any potential uprising to work with.

[Darth Fanboy]

Especially when there is a strong chance that the Droids of the CIS outnumber the entire population of the UFP.

I should provide my reasoning for this. Even if all 150 worlds of the UFP have populations double that of present day earth, the number is still not enough to compare to low end estimates of CIS droid numbers.

[Stark]

Dude, there is no way in HELL the UFP has a population of quadrillions.

[Batman]

Unless we count Tribbles, anyway.