Liberating Oneself from SW Merch

000 · Post by **000** » 2007-05-10 12:52am

I'd give Legacy, at least, a chance before dismissing it. I was mighty skeptical myself, but I'm enjoying it immensely.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2007-05-10 09:25am

I was truely disgusted by the Dark Nest trilogy. I think it injured my interest in the EU. Even Allegiance was meh, Mara Jade is rapidly becoming Zahn's Mary Sue, ZOMG PINK LIGHTSABER!!!111Shift+1. When Zahn hits the wall you know the franchise is in trouble. The decision to drop Darth Plageis has all but killed my enthusiasm.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2007-05-10 09:34am

000 wrote:I'd give Legacy, at least, a chance before dismissing it. I was mighty skeptical myself, but I'm enjoying it immensely.

I have little interest in comics at the best of times, a story about the fall of the Republic - oh sorry, GFFA - and rise of the Sith and Empire just made me roll my eyes. That more then even the stupidity of the YV invasion shows how incapable of thinking up ideas the people at Lucasfilm are.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-05-10 11:53am

I have little interest in comics at the best of times, a story about the fall of the Republic - oh sorry, GFFA - and rise of the Sith and Empire just made me roll my eyes.

I hate Quinlan Vos and all the fanboys that love him, yet even I could enjoy Legacy, which is made by the author behind QV's Republic issues. It's interesting, at least. And the Rebel vs. Empire takes on a new character since the fighting is between three parties.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-05-10 04:19pm

Noble Ire wrote:
VT-16 wrote:And KOTOR provides fandalorian fodder where it's actually appropriate.

*snip*
I am impressed. Those scenes, especially the first, are among the least minimalistic bits of the EU I've seen in a long time. Those comics did look rather promising when I thumb through the first few issues.

No, that's one of the worst bits of minimalism in the fucking EU. That fleet there is every fucking warship the republic has.

It's been dying for me for a while. The Traviss "kill everyone who disagrees" jihad, the losers at wookieepedia, and just the absolute shit quality of everything that came out in the CW series except for the ROTS novel and the other novels had me on the ropes. The new Complete ICS was the icing on the cake - when you deliberately over ride other chunks of the book, when you ignore science in a series based around scientific explanations, when you go with idiotic fan boy "ram them til they give up" plans instead of sound reasoning... you know what just fuck off. Seriously.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-05-10 04:26pm

That fleet there is every fucking warship the republic has.

Nope. They have the option of linking up with another battle group, according to after-battle reports.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-05-10 04:51pm

VT-16 wrote:
That fleet there is every fucking warship the republic has.
Nope. They have the option of linking up with another battle group, according to after-battle reports.

Yes, after the battle - where they manuvered to try and engage the mandalorians and shoot down the missiles. Before the battle it is explicetly said that that fleet was every warship the republic had.

Its shit. Complete and utter shit. The story premise was vaguely intriguing, but they are driving it into the ground, just like those clowns at LFL have done for the past decade with every other idea. OMG, they are using teh Nuk3z! Yeah, because nuclear fucking weapons are not used by every last motherfucker out there. Hope this doesn't happen to Tarsis. Like my subtle foreshadowing there herf-derf! Hey, the jedi who introduced himself and could vouch for me now never told us what his name is. Woops!

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-05-10 05:38pm

Before the battle it is explicetly said that that fleet was every warship the republic had.

Wasn't that by a rogue Jedi and some privateer guy seeing the fleet from a distance?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-05-10 06:29pm

I stopped reading the books before NJO, picked up one or two of those, and then swore it off all together.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-05-10 07:58pm

VT-16 wrote:
Before the battle it is explicetly said that that fleet was every warship the republic had.
Wasn't that by a rogue Jedi and some privateer guy seeing the fleet from a distance?

IIRC it was Carth Onasi. Given his commission and high security clearance, it can safely be believed that his statement is accurate.

000 · Post by **000** » 2007-05-10 08:46pm

I don't recall any statement being made to that effect.

I'll check, though.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2007-05-10 10:34pm

Outside of the Solo at Star's End, I have never read anything EU that was worth my time. The novels sucked, the comics sucked harder ( a giant rabbit bountyhunter?) and the RPG was big pair of clownshoes. I quit the EU (meaning I don't even thumb through it while browsing in the bookstore) when some godawful paperback came out with Han chasing Leia across the galaxy and getting his leg broken by some witches...

I wish I had just punched myself in the cock instead. It would have been over much more quickly and not nearly as painful.

I guess I'm just a decade ahead of everyone else.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-05-11 02:13am

IIRC it was Carth Onasi. Given his commission and high security clearance, it can safely be believed that his statement is accurate.

Even though a later issue explicitly said the remains of the battle group might link up with the Tremendous battle group after withdrawing?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2007-05-11 11:43pm

VT-16 wrote:
IIRC it was Carth Onasi. Given his commission and high security clearance, it can safely be believed that his statement is accurate.
Even though a later issue explicitly said the remains of the battle group might link up with the Tremendous battle group after withdrawing?

Repeating yourself and making me repeat myself doesnt make you right and me wrong. The statement about that being every ship in the republic was made prior to the battle. Amazingly, ships deploy and manuver while preparing for and during battle. Therefore, after the battle the task forces have to meet up again to form the fleet. Hallilujah, holy shit.

Base the conclusions on the facts, not on what you want the conclusion to be. That sequence is probably the second worst minimalist piece of shit in the EU.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2007-05-12 01:33am

I dropped out around Jedi Academy. It was just a bad trilogy, banally worded with lame tech ideas. The last I bought was Mandalorian Armour, which wasn't too bad, but by the Han Solo trilogy I decided they were going sort of like Marvel comics in the 1970-80s. A convoluted soap opera across a zillion titles in book$ as well as comic$ is kind of pricey.

The public library answers curiosity more affordably, and where it didn't, didn't matter as time went on. At least I wasn't out the cost of a paperback when the title is a dog. Collecting for the sake of collecting isn't a good reason to buy books anyway.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-05-12 08:35am

Ender wrote:
VT-16 wrote:
IIRC it was Carth Onasi. Given his commission and high security clearance, it can safely be believed that his statement is accurate.
Even though a later issue explicitly said the remains of the battle group might link up with the Tremendous battle group after withdrawing?
Repeating yourself and making me repeat myself doesnt make you right and me wrong. The statement about that being every ship in the republic was made prior to the battle. Amazingly, ships deploy and manuver while preparing for and during battle. Therefore, after the battle the task forces have to meet up again to form the fleet. Hallilujah, holy shit.

Base the conclusions on the facts, not on what you want the conclusion to be. That sequence is probably the second worst minimalist piece of shit in the EU.

Since this appears to be a point of some contention, could someone provide a shot of the pages in question, or at least a few quotes?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-05-12 09:39am

Well, if that's the case and Onasi was right (which I can't find any reason for him to be because a) he's not a senior officer and b) he's talking to a guy who's not in a navy and might have pulled a "parsec = time" flub), then the entire Republic Navy at this time, which is spread across the Outer Rim, consists of two battlegroups with a few hundred ships each?

I admit not having read much of KOTOR, so I might be completely off base on this.

000 · Post by **000** » 2007-05-12 05:51pm

I just checked through the entire arc, to make sure I'm not crazy. At no point does anyone even hint that the Courageous battle group (the fleet in the image VT-16 posted) is the entire Republic navy. It's even explicitly referred to as the "Republic line protecting Serroco" in the issue itself and referred to as the Courageous battle group in a newsfeed in the following issue.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2007-05-12 08:08pm

The only place Onasi says anything related to the forces at Serroco, is when he's trying to find a table at a fringer cafeteria. And I highly doubt he's being serious when he says "Looks like the whole Republic's here!" (in the cafeteria). Otherwise, there's been no reference to the force, other than a battle group.