Captain Janeway And Her Fate Worse Than Death

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-05 03:11pm

Okay, guys, I need some male input on a matter of Trek morality that's been bugging me for ages...

Captain Kathryn Janeway. Used to love the character. Even if you hated her from Day 1, I think you'd have to admit that she was MEANT to be the ideal Star Fleet captain in many respects. Smart. Authoritative. Brave. The whole works. And cares DEEPLY for the people under her command and would take a phaser bolt to the head for any one of them, or so I always believed.

Then along comes Q. Takes a shine to her. Wants to even kanoodle with her. Just the one time, heck, he'd even snap his fingers and whisk the lot of them back to their boring old home quadrant if only Kathryn would open her heart (and her legs) and say yes. Of course, instead, she says no...

My 'bug' aspect is this: If I were a crewman aboard the Voyager at that moment and afterwards found out that MY captain, the woman that is supposedly willing to DIE FOR ME, robbed me of a chance to go instantly home because she refused to have sex with a perfectly normal-looking humanoid male just once, do I have a right to be absolutely, bloody FURIOUS with her? Deem her an uncaring, incompetent, priggish excuse of a leader with her morals stuck in the 18th Century, even?

I would!

Also, am I the only person that was kind of grossed out by the whole bit with Janeway falling for that holo guy and the whole damn bridge crew and co. being in on it and offering their simpering approval? Aren't holo-people really just the future's version of a blow-up doll in the sexual fantasy sense? Imagine the wardroom gang aboard a naval carrier buying the ship's captain a super-deluxe plastic babe, complete with accessories and a full line of undergarments...and then being privy to his falling in love with it...YUCK!

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-01-05 03:25pm

Every episode is meant to be completely literary, and it's bad literature.
It's just the ST assumption that technology may have changed, but human morals, values, and ideals, have not. Another example is the rampant sexism of female characters in TOS, though subtler and not omnipresent it still exists, and gives the impression that sexual dynamics have not changed in 300 years.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-05 03:41pm

Voyager's basic societal mores are those of left-wing liberal Californians. In other words, the writers concocted the society that they would create if they were in charge.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-05 08:08pm

I guess omnipotent beings cant suddenly impregnate humans without sex, eh?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-07 04:27am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:It's just the ST assumption that technology may have changed, but human morals, values, and ideals, have not.

That's very widespread in all sci-fi, not just Star Trek. A good example is sci-fi from the 1950s, where people supposedly living in the 21st century still have 1950s hairstyles and mannerisms!!

The only sci-fi I've yet encountered which explains this in a feasible way is Warhammer 40K, where humanity has regressed to a state of feudalism and absolutist monarchy, and this is explained by some sort of "age of strife" which threw humanity back to barbarism, only to be united by a tyrant known only as "The Emperor."

(obviously modelled upon the Dark Ages after the Roman Empire's collapse, and the Emperor modelled upon Charlemagne)

Darth Wong,

In other words, the writers concocted the society that they would create if they were in charge.

That's quite typical. Sci-fi often reflects the writers' political viewpoints.

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-01-07 10:54am

Darth Wong wrote:Voyager's basic societal mores are those of left-wing liberal Californians. In other words, the writers concocted the society that they would create if they were in charge.

--Yeah, it is too bad that the left wing has been hijacked by idiots and zealots. Someone should invent a rational wing....

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » 2003-01-07 11:22am

As with most series, Star Trek: Voyager could have ended on its first episode with just a little more thought and a lot less stupidity. That wouldn't make for a very interesting show though, now would it. Instead they toss in these 'almost got home' scenarios which are foiled at the last minute by some (usually lame) incident.

This is why StarGate rocks, it manages to do sci-fi right (IMHO), even the time travel ep (1967, 2010) were well done.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-07 05:25pm

Someone should invent a rational wing....

I am not a direction! I AM A FREE MAN!

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-07 10:40pm

Even the worst puritans have always understood the concept of 'doing it' for Queen and country. Hey, Janeway! You could've closed your eyes and accommodated Q for Star Fleet and the Federation, if not for your hapless dregs below decks. And IMO it's not like Q needed a bag put over his head either (unlike you-know-who in B5).

Trek's version of sexual mores is what I think of as tee-hee sex...just a very immature attitude overall. Even silly old SPACE: 1999 handled the subject better--didn't the commander in that one have an ongoing relationship with the doctor? It was never a big deal, it was just a note of realism amidst a bunch of whackiness. VOY would rather hook up its captain with a fake fantasy character than a perfectly nice, available and interested living person in the form of Chakotay, geez...

I wonder if our hypothetical crewman, the one that I think would be justified in being pissed off with Janeway, could get out of Star Fleet once back in Federation space and launch a civil suit against her, charging that she failed in her duty to take advantage of an opportunity to get them home and thus caused much unnecessary stress and suffering...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 12:57am

I think that most women, in that situation, would give it up to Q. The stakes are way too high to be that selfish. Then again, I still don't understand why Q would pick her out of the entire crew.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-08 01:30am

Darth Wong wrote:I think that most women, in that situation, would give it up to Q.

It would depend on the individual, IMO. A golddigger wouldn't hesitate to get screwed by the apex sentient in the Trek universe. Someone with decent self-esteem would think about it for a good long while; accepting would be very much a matter of 'taking one for the team' than anything else.

Then again, I still don't understand why Q would pick her out of the entire crew.

It's one of those unanswerable mysteries of Star Trek, alongside why hostile foliage always seeks out redshirts and why the warp core ejectors never work.

Besides, the differences between the Q and Trek humans are so great that intra-species differences among Trek humans are pretty much lost in the noise.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-08 01:33am

kojikun wrote:I guess omnipotent beings cant suddenly impregnate humans without sex, eh?

Omnipotent....or Impotent.....today on Jerry Springer we're talking to Q.....
*fades out*

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-08 05:22am

Darth Wong wrote:Then again, I still don't understand why Q would pick her out of the entire crew.

That was BEFORE 7 of 9 arrived on the ship.

Let's look at the other women aboard the bridge:

Lt. Torres: It's a long time ago I last watched Voyager, but if I rember correctly, Torres was quite psychotic and unpredictable. Besides, she already had a crush on Tom Paris, so why bother??
Kes: Already involved with Neelix.

Of course, Q could have chosen a hitherto-unknown lieutenant, ensign or petty officer, but that wouldn't be in the interest of the writers.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-08 07:57am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Kes: Already involved with Neelix.

And would really want to sleep with a woman that's been with Neelix?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-08 08:16pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:Kes: Already involved with Neelix.
And would really want to sleep with a woman that's been with Neelix?

Plus maybe Q didnt want branded a pedophile for screwing someone that was only 2?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-08 08:20pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Plus maybe Q didnt want branded a pedophile for screwing someone that was only 2?

Neelix didn't have any problems with that

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-08 08:33pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:Plus maybe Q didnt want branded a pedophile for screwing someone that was only 2?
Neelix didn't have any problems with that

You must admit he does look like he'll take anything he can get....from anyone that he can get....hell...he might even do janeway.....

Infact...ever wondered how he ended up with that job of his???

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-01-08 11:38pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
His Divine Shadow wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:Plus maybe Q didnt want branded a pedophile for screwing someone that was only 2?
Neelix didn't have any problems with that
You must admit he does look like he'll take anything he can get....from anyone that he can get....hell...he might even do janeway.....

Infact...ever wondered how he ended up with that job of his???

Stop now. I don't need more horrible images of Janeway.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-01-08 11:49pm

One romp in the sack and its home free? Janeway shoulda spread 'em-- one for the crew and all the families who want Joe Ensign to come home.

But still had I been Q, I'd've gone after Torres. Even if she starts throwing plates or something I can just deflect everything anyway. She'd be much more energetic and interesting. Janeway's too tight-assed. Maybe Q needs to give her ANAL SEX!

How's that for an image?

B5 and Farscape handle sex well, I think.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-09 12:08am

Coyote wrote: Janeway's too tight-assed. Maybe Q needs to give her ANAL SEX!

Finally the only possible reason for Q to pick Janeway!