MoO's Darkstar critique is up on the main site!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-07 12:17am

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/HateMail/RSA/MoO

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-07 12:20am

Holy Cats that's alot of pages...

*starts reading*

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-07 12:31am

*rubs hands with glee*

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-07 12:41am

Hey wong, about your comments on the neutronium page:

Could a chunk of a neutron star exist outside of its parent star? Unknown. Could it accrete material as it moves, or slam into a moon or planet and get stuck there? Undoubtedly. Is this any more disproof of its neutronium nature than the rogue neutron star "fragment" in TNG's "Masterpiece Society?" You tell me; I'm sure RSA will find some way to explain why the rogue fragment in "Masterpiece Society" was real neutronium while the rogue fragment found buried on a moon in "Cracken's Threat Dossier" was not. One parting note: the odds of finding the exact constituents of dura-armour in one place, already mixed together, are probably not high. This "vein" may have actually been artificial, perhaps the result of some huge ancient space station crashing into the moon or something.

1) if it was real neutronium, shouldn't the planet be orbiting the moon, not the other way around
2) IIRC the text describing the mineral find precludes it being a crashed ship (I think it says pure, or that they are scattered around the planet which an alloy would not be)
3) Neutronium as I understand it should not be able to accrete material, becasue as soon as it touches the nuetronium it should become neutronium itself due to the gravity

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-07 12:45am

Ender wrote:Hey wong, about your comments on the neutronium page:
Could a chunk of a neutron star exist outside of its parent star? Unknown. Could it accrete material as it moves, or slam into a moon or planet and get stuck there? Undoubtedly. Is this any more disproof of its neutronium nature than the rogue neutron star "fragment" in TNG's "Masterpiece Society?" You tell me; I'm sure RSA will find some way to explain why the rogue fragment in "Masterpiece Society" was real neutronium while the rogue fragment found buried on a moon in "Cracken's Threat Dossier" was not. One parting note: the odds of finding the exact constituents of dura-armour in one place, already mixed together, are probably not high. This "vein" may have actually been artificial, perhaps the result of some huge ancient space station crashing into the moon or something.
1) if it was real neutronium, shouldn't the planet be orbiting the moon, not the other way around
2) IIRC the text describing the mineral find precludes it being a crashed ship (I think it says pure, or that they are scattered around the planet which an alloy would not be)
3) Neutronium as I understand it should not be able to accrete material, becasue as soon as it touches the nuetronium it should become neutronium itself due to the gravity

Not to be cruel, but wrong, wrong, and wrong.

1) Pop quiz: how much more gravity does 1 million tons of neutronium exert at a range of 100 km, as opposed to 1 million tons of rock? Think carefully about this one.

2) Pop quiz: why can't alloys be scattered from a crash site?

3) Pop quiz: if you were to take a small piece of neutronium out of a neutron star somehow (let's say it comes near a black hole, shreds, and a piece goes flying away), would it have the same gravity as the original neutron star?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-07 12:50am

This is some fun stuff...Bravo MoO, bravo.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-01-07 12:59am

This is very good news about one of our best debaters

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-07 01:13am

I'm reading through it right now, and I think it's great.

Congradulations, Ossus. And you too, Mike.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-07 01:17am

On the Cloaking Technology page, the second sentence says "He is correct that Star Wars cloaking devices are larger and bulkier (and, indirectly, that they require more power) than Star Wars cloaking devices."

The second "Star Wars" should be "Star Trek."

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-07 01:21am

Alright, a few more points

1) I now have a greater respect for you MOO. I fully admit that I would have abandoned a project like this halfway through because i would not be able to deal with the bullshit anymore.
2) Someone should archive those threads on a seperate server. That would protect them against anything going wrong with the boards
3) the trek5 link from the ground combat page doesn't work.
4) on the overview page, where you say that things were dealt with on other pages, I reccomend including a link to those pages there so that you cannot be accused of using RSA's tactic of saying you explained it and not linking to it. (Would it be a BS claim? Yes. Does that mean RSA or someone else will use it? Yes.)

Suggestions:

Editor's note: Energy absorption is one of a Jedi's skills, as described in the official literature and demonstrated in TESB (yes, I know, some think Vader's artificial hand did the trick; didn't seem to work with Luke's artificial hand in ROTJ).

You might want to mention that AOTC clearly shows that deflecting/redirection of energy is a force power, as yoda didn't have any special gloves there.

Also note that there is no canonical Star Wars account of a disease. Therefore, disease does not exist within Star Wars, demonstrating that in Star Wars all disease has been eliminated. This clearly indicates that Star Wars medical technology is considerably better than that of the UFP, in which disease is still a consistent problem. In fact, the UFP does not even have established parameters for dealing with disease, as is revealed in "Angel One" [TNG].

You might want to preface that with something like "Should we use RSA's stipulation of only using canon material" because in the EU disease has been shown to exist, multiple times.

"One would think that the larger ships must have a horrible response time to emergency conditions."

In dealing with this, you might want to insert a real world comparrison: Both an aircraft carrier and a frigate can reach full battle station in under 7 minutes,. Lesson: size doesn't matter if you are well trained.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-07 01:27am

Darth Wong wrote: 1) Pop quiz: how much more gravity does 1 million tons of neutronium exert at a range of 100 km, as opposed to 1 million tons of rock? Think carefully about this one.

If they are an equal mass, it should be the same.

2) Pop quiz: why can't alloys be scattered from a crash site?

Fragments can be scattered, yes, but how can an alloy be pure? Do the materials seperate from their bonds upon impact? And like I said, this point I'm hazy on.

3) Pop quiz: if you were to take a small piece of neutronium out of a neutron star somehow (let's say it comes near a black hole, shreds, and a piece goes flying away), would it have the same gravity as the original neutron star?

No, but it would no longer be neutronium either because it would lack the mass to hold it as such and from what you told me in a thread about neutronium anillation reactors, should blow up in a burst of gamma rays.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-07 01:43am

Ender wrote:If they are an equal mass, it should be the same.

Right, so there's no reason to think the planet's orbit should be altered unless a very massive quantity of neutronium ended up there.

Fragments can be scattered, yes, but how can an alloy be pure? Do the materials seperate from their bonds upon impact? And like I said, this point I'm hazy on.

It never says the alloy is pure; a pure alloy is an oxymoron. It only says that the constituents are all there.

No, but it would no longer be neutronium either because it would lack the mass to hold it as such and from what you told me in a thread about neutronium anillation reactors, should blow up in a burst of gamma rays.

Particle radiation, actually. And yes, that's theoretically what happens eventually, although we've never actually observed what neutronium acts like. Given that fact, we can simply postulate that while a free neutron doesn't last very long, there may be some island of stability for neutronium which makes it last longer. Since no one has performed research on this, no one can seriously dent it. Besides, as I pointed out in the page, what's good for the goose is good for the gander; if we insist that neutronium cannot possibly exist outside of that gravity, then both SW and ST neutronium are not real neutronium. RSA's use of double standards is his big downfall; it makes it almost ridiculously easy to take apart his arguments.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-07 01:44am

PS. It's micro-singularities that blow up in a burst of gamma rays.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-01-07 02:13am

After reading the stuff that Dorkstar has on his site, I will say this:

Oww. My brain hurts.

Good job smashing Dorkstar's site/arguments to bits.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-01-07 02:35am

Based on the refrences to the effectiveness of Ramming tactics, and Kentic impacts, Can I suggest that the Federation replace all photon torpedoes, with Massdrivers, or Impuse&Warp assisted Metal slugs.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-07 03:30am

LOL- Just read Darkstar's latest spacebattles post. He says he's going to give MoO a 'beating'. Ooooohhhhh ..... I'm sure everyone fears for MoO

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-01-07 03:32am

Vympel wrote:LOL- Just read Darkstar's latest spacebattles post. He says he's going to give MoO a 'beating'. Ooooohhhhh ..... I'm sure everyone fears for MoO

I hope MoO has time to read this beating

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-01-07 05:02am

Of course Darkstar is going to give him a beating! I mean, who can read through one of those infamous, ridiculously long DS (perhaps 'BS' would be more appropriate?

) diatribe and not have a headache pounding in their head? LOL.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-01-07 11:32am

MoO, I am IMPRESSED. This is a thorough destruction and evisceration of Dorkstar and I am enjoying every word of it, including the brain pain that is Dorkstar's reasoning process. Some of his assertions are simply INSANE. But what can we do about that?

My hat's off to you MoO, you did good.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-07 12:40pm

Vympel wrote:LOL- Just read Darkstar's latest spacebattles post. He says he's going to give MoO a 'beating'. Ooooohhhhh ..... I'm sure everyone fears for MoO

Is it worded in his typically asinine way? Can we see a quote? This might be good for a collection of his cretinous diatribes.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-01-07 01:26pm

Dorkstar's own words from the SB thread:

We disagree because I place dispensing with the reality of the situation on the other side of "no other option" than you do, regarding this situation.

Rumor has it that I have to go kick Ossus's ass on SD.Net. Let's just agree to disagree on this one. Or, at the very least, how about a break until his beating is complete?

This is the thread:http://kier.3dfrontier.com/forums/showt ... genumber=2

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-07 02:40pm

Excellent done job MoO and goo follow-up as per normal Wong

Northern Huntsman · Post by **Northern Huntsman** » 2003-01-07 02:43pm

Just a minor thing...

This is merely another one of Mr. Anderson's pro-Trek claims that come from nowhere. While it is clear the starship shields are more than capable of stopping physical impacts (like photon torpedoes or the section of the hull that Anderson mentions), it is also impossible to rule out that the shields were simply not capable of deflecting such a large impact. Considering that the relatively small section of the Valdore class warbird, which struck the E-E twice, knocked its shields down by an enormous percent—down to ten percent from an unspecified but probably very high percent, and certainly one larger than forty percent because they were trying to hide another set of shields that had been depleted to that percentage by using their forward shields—we come up with a fairly consistent idea of how good Trek shielding is against KE impacts.

He might want to clean this up a bit. The "10%" was the shield rating given to the fore shields, but the Valdore wing hit the starboard side of the saucer and starboad side nacelle, neither of which is the fore shield, neither did the shield deactivate from the hit alone, since it flared-up again once it skittered back and hit the nacelle.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-07 05:51pm

*bows before MoO*

[Wayne and Garth]
We're not worthy, we're not worthy
[/W&G]

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-01-07 10:01pm

If they are an equal mass, it should be the same.

[hijack]

What weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?

[/hijack]