"The Bunker"-who would you save?

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Soldier of Entropy
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"The Bunker"-who would you save?

Post by Soldier of Entropy »

I found this one on another website:
Linky!
So, inspired by The Lifeboat discussion, I remembered this exercise we did in one of my early anthropology classes. It was meant partially to illustrate our societal values, and also as kind of a fun "what would you do if you got to build a culture from the ground up" kind of thing.

Here's the hypothetical situation:

A nuclear war has occurred and out of the whole population of earth only 21 people have survived, stranded in a bunker for the last six months. In two weeks, the radioactivity and environmental conditions will be such that they can all come out of the bunker, but there’s a problem. The bunker was only designed to hold 11 people for no more than one year. With double the amount of people in the bunker, the food, water, and oxygen supplies have been stretched to the extreme and will not hold out for the remaining two weeks. In order for anyone to survive that long, half of the occupants of the bunker would have to leave. The remaining 11 people would be able to survive until conditions outside are habitable again, but the 10 that leave the bunker will die almost instantly as soon as they step out of the airlock. Since you are the only one who knows how to maintain any of the life support equipment in the bunker, it is determined that you have to stay, but you are given the task of deciding which 10 other people will stay with you and which will leave. Everyone has agreed to abide by your decision and whoever is asked to leave will do so without a fight. You and the 10 other people who survive will be the only human beings on the planet once the other 10 are gone.

This is all you know about the other people in the bunker with you:

1. Rev. Marcus Black 41, Male, occupied as a Protestant minister, married to Alicia Black, had one daughter Tiffany Black, known as an activist in his community

2. Mrs. Alicia Black 39, Female, occupied as a home-maker, finished nursing school, married to Marcus Black, had one daughter Tiffany Black

3. Tiffany Black 11, Female, straight A
student, played junior league basketball, daughter of Marcus and Alicia Black, planned to be a physicist one day

4. Dr. Will Oates, MD 37, Male, occupied as a doctor (general practice), divorced, one son Jeffery Oates, alcoholic, praised for career excellence, was under prosecution for tax fraud when the war hit

5. Jeffery Oates 14, Male, passable student, participates in athletics and is in the agriscience and trade programs at school

6. Sister Lucia 25, Female, occupied as a Catholic nun, recognized for her devotion to community service, particularly for running a homeless shelter and organizing food drives for the needy.

7. Candy Smith 21, Female, occupied as a prostitute, unmarried, one infant daughter Lilah Smith, extensive non-violent criminal record

8. Lilah Smith 3 months old, Female, was born in the bomb shelter, mother is Candy Smith and father is unknown.

9. Lt. Jonas Carpenter 25, Male, occupied as an officer in the Army in an infantry unit, was awarded a several medals and awards during his military career, unmarried, grew up on a grain farm and planed to return there when his tour of duty was over

10. Kyle Rogers 31, Male, unemployed, received a Masters degree in psychology from an Ivy League college, HIV positive, was arrested during an anarchist demonstration while in college

11. Helen Palemoon 24, Female, occupied as an elementary school teacher, widowed, grew up on a Native American reservation, is known for her work in increasing cultural awareness in her students.

12. Warren Scott 28, Male, occupied as a forest ranger, specialized in eco-science, divorced, had been under treatment for a suicide attempt following his divorce

13. Matthew Horton 65, Male, occupied as a career farmer, owned a dairy farm and grew vegetable crops as a supplement, married to Mildred Horton, six children all now deceased, veteran of the armed forces, was on his local city council for five years.

14. Mildred Horton 63, Female, retired accountant and assists with farm work, married to Matthew Horton, had been under treatment for a heart condition.

15. Naomi Pulaski 35, Female, occupied as a factory worker, widowed, had four kids (now deceased), dropped out of high school at age 16

16. Dr. Rachel Hall, Ph.D 29, Female, occupied as a history professor at a community college, unmarried, feminist activist, has written several papers and books on the subject of women’s rights.

17. Vincent Horn 33, Male, occupied as a mechanic, widower, had two children (now deceased), served in the military when he was younger, amateur weight lifter

18. Ivan Korolev 39, Male, occupied as a carpenter, divorced, no children, carves decorative furniture and figurines in his spare time

19. Charles Yoeman 43, Male, occupied as mayor of his town, married to Leticia Yoeman, no children, was planning on running for the Senate, supported environmental awareness, grew up in a wealthy family
and studied law at a prestigious law school

20. Leticia Yoeman 36, Female, occupied as a homemaker, married to Charles Yoeman, no children, daughter of a wealthy businessman worth millions of dollars, worked as a fashion model until she got married.



So, which 10 would you choose and why? Also, list five rules (assuming that they will be followed and written down for posterity) which the new Earth colonists are to live by.

Edit: In this hypothetical universe, assume that in two weeks the radiation/toxic waste will be gone and that most of the plant life and much of the animal life has miraculously survived intact. (Unrealistic, I know, but that's out of the scope of the exercise). Also, keep in mind that there is only enough breathable oxygen for exactly 11 adult (the definition of adult is anyone of roughly adult size, including the two older children). While the baby doesn't consume much air, if she stays in addition to 10 others, everyone aspyxiates just a little bit before the deadline. If she stays and someone else goes, then there's a little bit of air left when the deadline is up.
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Post by Enforcer Talen »

Rev Black dies, last one left
Mrs Black lives, nurse
Tiffany lives, female
Dr lives, medical doctor
jeffrey lives, ariscience
lucia lives, female
candy dies, criminal record
lilah, dies, low life expectancy
lt lives, farm exp
kyle dies, hiv
helen lives, female
warren dies, suicide watch
matthew lives, farmr
mildred dies, not good life expectancy
naomi dies, unlikely breeder
dr hall, lives, female
vincent lives, manual labor
ivan lives, useful skills
charles lives, educated
letcia, dies, unlikely breeder

The rules would prolly be some fascist thing with the goal of as many kids as fast as possible.
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Post by Enforcer Talen »

Although, I seem to be over two. Toss Ivan and Vincent out too. Im gambling on high breeding/farming and low levels of manual labor. Its a tricky balance.
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Post by Feil »

This is really an intensely stupid thing. There's no way in hell nuclear war could kill that many people, and air consumption per person is hardly a constant rate.
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Post by Drooling Iguana »

Tiffany Black, Jeffery Oates, Sister Lucia, Candy Smith, Lilah Smith, Jonas Carpenter, Helen Palemoon and Vincent Horn all live because they're at or below breeding age and have no major listed health problems. Alicia Black lives because she's a nurse and because she's Tiffany's mother. Will Oates lives because he's a doctor. Everyone else dies.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

1. Rev. Marcus Black 41, Male, occupied as a Protestant minister, married to Alicia Black, had one daughter Tiffany Black, known as an activist in his community
Sorry, but the reverend buys it. He has no skills and his occupation is useless in a post-atomic world.
2. Mrs. Alicia Black 39, Female, occupied as a home-maker, finished nursing school, married to Marcus Black, had one daughter Tiffany Black
Past childbearing age, but possibly needed as a caregiver. Coin-toss.
3. Tiffany Black 11, Female, straight A
student, played junior league basketball, daughter of Marcus and Alicia Black, planned to be a physicist one day
Future breedable female. She stays.
4. Dr. Will Oates, MD 37, Male, occupied as a doctor (general practice), divorced, one son Jeffery Oates, alcoholic, praised for career excellence, was under prosecution for tax fraud when the war hit
Doctors would be invaluable. He stays.
5. Jeffery Oates 14, Male, passable student, participates in athletics and is in the agriscience and trade programs at school
Has some knowledge and is strong and athletically skilled. Necessary farmer/labourer and his genes will be needed. He stays.
6. Sister Lucia 25, Female, occupied as a Catholic nun, recognized for her devotion to community service, particularly for running a homeless shelter and organizing food drives for the needy.
Breedable female. She stays.
7. Candy Smith 21, Female, occupied as a prostitute, unmarried, one infant daughter Lilah Smith, extensive non-violent criminal record
Breedable female. She stays.
8. Lilah Smith 3 months old, Female, was born in the bomb shelter, mother is Candy Smith and father is unknown.
Children are the future and letting her live will sway Candy to cooperate. She stays.
9. Lt. Jonas Carpenter 25, Male, occupied as an officer in the Army in an infantry unit, was awarded a several medals and awards during his military career, unmarried, grew up on a grain farm and planed to return there when his tour of duty was over
Experienced soldier and farmer. Both invaluable skills for group survival and his genes will be needed. He stays.
10. Kyle Rogers 31, Male, unemployed, received a Masters degree in psychology from an Ivy League college, HIV positive, was arrested during an anarchist demonstration while in college
Sorry, he dies. Can't afford to pass on diseases to the next generation and psychology will be a useless practise. Has no other useful skill. His politics and arrest record are non-factors in this decision.
11. Helen Palemoon 24, Female, occupied as an elementary school teacher, widowed, grew up on a Native American reservation, is known for her work in increasing cultural awareness in her students.
Breedable female. She stays.
12. Warren Scott 28, Male, occupied as a forest ranger, specialized in eco-science, divorced, had been under treatment for a suicide attempt following his divorce
Sorry, he dies. Having a potentially suicidal person in your group could be potentially devestating for morale.
13. Matthew Horton 65, Male, occupied as a career farmer, owned a dairy farm and grew vegetable crops as a supplement, married to Mildred Horton, six children all now deceased, veteran of the armed forces, was on his local city council for five years.

14. Mildred Horton 63, Female, retired accountant and assists with farm work, married to Matthew Horton, had been under treatment for a heart condition.
Sorry, but the Future belongs to the young. They've got to go.
15. Naomi Pulaski 35, Female, occupied as a factory worker, widowed, had four kids (now deceased), dropped out of high school at age 16
Viability as a breedable female is limited and she hasn't the skills necessary for the sort of existence the group has to lead. Hate to say it but she dies.
16. Dr. Rachel Hall, Ph.D 29, Female, occupied as a history professor at a community college, unmarried, feminist activist, has written several papers and books on the subject of women’s rights.
Coin-toss.
17. Vincent Horn 33, Male, occupied as a mechanic, widower, had two children (now deceased), served in the military when he was younger, amateur weight lifter
Mechanic. Absolutely needed as are his genes. He lives.
18. Ivan Korolev 39, Male, occupied as a carpenter, divorced, no children, carves decorative furniture and figurines in his spare time
Carpenter. Absolutely needed as are his genes. He lives.
19. Charles Yoeman 43, Male, occupied as mayor of his town, married to Leticia Yoeman, no children, was planning on running for the Senate, supported environmental awareness, grew up in a wealthy family
and studied law at a prestigious law school
Pity politics don't mean shit in a post-atomic world. Sorry, but he's a waste of oxygen and food and would challenge me as group-leader from inclination. Plus he's bound to the Old Order. He dies.
20. Leticia Yoeman 36, Female, occupied as a homemaker, married to Charles Yoeman, no children, daughter of a wealthy businessman worth millions of dollars, worked as a fashion model until she got married.
Viability as a breedable female is limited and she hasn't the skills necessary for the sort of existence the group has to lead. Hate to say it but she dies.
Last edited by Patrick Degan on 2007-05-12 11:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Feil »

You'd want five men for maximum genetic diversity [5x6>(5-x)(6+x), x<=5], I suppose, and multiple races if you can get them. Still a stupid scenario.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

All who have useful post-nuclear group survival skills (soldier, medic, carpenter, mechanic) stay, and breedable females stay too. Degan made all correct choices already. Everyone else bites the dust.
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Re: "The Bunker"-who would you save?

Post by Anarchist Bunny »

Did something like this in a Speech Class with colonizing a new planet. Had to argue and aruge and argue with a group member that the 40 year old fine cuisine chef wasn't getting on my damn space ship.
3. Tiffany Black 11, Female, straight A
student, played junior league basketball, daughter of Marcus and Alicia Black, planned to be a physicist one day

4. Dr. Will Oates, MD 37, Male, occupied as a doctor (general practice), divorced, one son Jeffery Oates, alcoholic, praised for career excellence, was under prosecution for tax fraud when the war hit

5. Jeffery Oates 14, Male, passable student, participates in athletics and is in the agriscience and trade programs at school

6. Sister Lucia 25, Female, occupied as a Catholic nun, recognized for her devotion to community service, particularly for running a homeless shelter and organizing food drives for the needy.

9. Lt. Jonas Carpenter 25, Male, occupied as an officer in the Army in an infantry unit, was awarded a several medals and awards during his military career, unmarried, grew up on a grain farm and planed to return there when his tour of duty was over

11. Helen Palemoon 24, Female, occupied as an elementary school teacher, widowed, grew up on a Native American reservation, is known for her work in increasing cultural awareness in her students.

15. Naomi Pulaski 35, Female, occupied as a factory worker, widowed, had four kids (now deceased), dropped out of high school at age 16

16. Dr. Rachel Hall, Ph.D 29, Female, occupied as a history professor at a community college, unmarried, feminist activist, has written several papers and books on the subject of women’s rights.

17. Vincent Horn 33, Male, occupied as a mechanic, widower, had two children (now deceased), served in the military when he was younger, amateur weight lifter

18. Ivan Korolev 39, Male, occupied as a carpenter, divorced, no children, carves decorative furniture and figurines in his spare time
//This Line Blank as of 7/15/07\\
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Post by Soldier of Entropy »

Stas Bush wrote:All who have useful post-nuclear group survival skills (soldier, medic, carpenter, mechanic) stay, and breedable females stay too. Degan made all correct choices already. Everyone else bites the dust.
On the surface what he says looks good, but what I was thinking was that it might be a bad idea to include anyone related in order to increase genetic diversity-that means Alicia OR Tiffany, Will or Jeffery, and Candy OR Lila.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Soldier of Entropy wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:All who have useful post-nuclear group survival skills (soldier, medic, carpenter, mechanic) stay, and breedable females stay too. Degan made all correct choices already. Everyone else bites the dust.
On the surface what he says looks good, but what I was thinking was that it might be a bad idea to include anyone related in order to increase genetic diversity-that means Alicia OR Tiffany, Will or Jeffery, and Candy OR Lila.
With a base population of 10, genetic diversity won't last more than one generation anyway, perhaps three at most, but that's a secondary argument.

Consider the need for a certain degree of redundancy to offset possible future losses to the group (assuming a disaster which could destroy them outright doesn't occur). Plus, Lila and Jeffrey are a potential breeding pair in about 15 years. He will be only 29 when she hits puberty. Meanwhile, you need Candy in the group as well for her value as a present breedable female.

As for Alicia and Tiffany... Well, Alicia's past childbearing age as it is and I'd already considered her a coin-toss as to whether she stays in the shelter or not.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

1. Rev. Marcus Black 41, Male, occupied as a Protestant minister, married to Alicia Black, had one daughter Tiffany Black, known as an activist in his community
His gone. No useful skills besides telling people there going to hell.
2. Mrs. Alicia Black 39, Female, occupied as a home-maker, finished nursing school, married to Marcus Black, had one daughter Tiffany Black
Female past her prime. Most likely would be a fundi also. She's tossed.
3. Tiffany Black 11, Female, straight A
student, played junior league basketball, daughter of Marcus and Alicia Black, planned to be a physicist one day
While a good breeder and laborer she will most likely want pay back for her parents. Toss!
4. Dr. Will Oates, MD 37, Male, occupied as a doctor (general practice), divorced, one son Jeffery Oates, alcoholic, praised for career excellence, was under prosecution for tax fraud when the war hit
He'll need doctors. He stays.
5. Jeffery Oates 14, Male, passable student, participates in athletics and is in the agriscience and trade programs at school
He need him he stays.
6. Sister Lucia 25, Female, occupied as a Catholic nun, recognized for her devotion to community service, particularly for running a homeless shelter and organizing food drives for the needy.
Most Nuns would rather die than break there vows. So she dies.
7. Candy Smith 21, Female, occupied as a prostitute, unmarried, one infant daughter Lilah Smith, extensive non-violent criminal record
Breeder and labor. We keep her.
8. Lilah Smith 3 months old, Female, was born in the bomb shelter, mother is Candy Smith and father is unknown.
Eventually laborer and breeder keep her.
9. Lt. Jonas Carpenter 25, Male, occupied as an officer in the Army in an infantry unit, was awarded a several medals and awards during his military career, unmarried, grew up on a grain farm and planed to return there when his tour of duty was over
Solder farmer he stays.
10. Kyle Rogers 31, Male, unemployed, received a Masters degree in psychology from an Ivy League college, HIV positive, was arrested during an anarchist demonstration while in college
Toss time! He is useless as a worker and breeder.
11. Helen Palemoon 24, Female, occupied as an elementary school teacher, widowed, grew up on a Native American reservation, is known for her work in increasing cultural awareness in her students.
Breeder and I'm banking on her knowing a thing or two about wilderness survivle.
12. Warren Scott 28, Male, occupied as a forest ranger, specialized in eco-science, divorced, had been under treatment for a suicide attempt following his divorce
I'm gonna chance it. He stays.
13. Matthew Horton 65, Male, occupied as a career farmer, owned a dairy farm and grew vegetable crops as a supplement, married to Mildred Horton, six children all now deceased, veteran of the armed forces, was on his local city council for five years.

14. Mildred Horton 63, Female, retired accountant and assists with farm work, married to Matthew Horton, had been under treatment for a heart condition.

15. Naomi Pulaski 35, Female, occupied as a factory worker, widowed, had four kids (now deceased), dropped out of high school at age 16
Past breeding age or right at it. Toss!
16. Dr. Rachel Hall, Ph.D 29, Female, occupied as a history professor at a community college, unmarried, feminist activist, has written several papers and books on the subject of women’s rights.


A college feminist... Oh yes she'll LOVE the breeding program. TOSS!
17. Vincent Horn 33, Male, occupied as a mechanic, widower, had two children (now deceased), served in the military when he was younger, amateur weight lifter

18. Ivan Korolev 39, Male, occupied as a carpenter, divorced, no children, carves decorative furniture and figurines in his spare time
We'll need there skills.
19. Charles Yoeman 43, Male, occupied as mayor of his town, married to Leticia Yoeman, no children, was planning on running for the Senate, supported environmental awareness, grew up in a wealthy family
and studied law at a prestigious law school
Useless toss!
20. Leticia Yoeman 36, Female, occupied as a homemaker, married to Charles Yoeman, no children, daughter of a wealthy businessman worth millions of dollars, worked as a fashion model until she got married.
Toss! Also useless.

I know there are few females for breeding her. But sad fact is, inbreeding will occur eventually. I'm banking on somehow, someway finding other survivers.

Otherwise live it up as best we can enjoying the last days.[/quote]
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Hmm... yeah, tossing out religious people might be a good idea. After all, cross-breeding and other stuff which will be needed to ensure survival might cause some shit among them (that is, if their religious standings have not been completely broken down by the apocalyptic destruction of humanity itself - but I won't really bet on it, religion only becomes stronger and thrives in darkest ages of human misery).
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Post by brianeyci »

I don't know about you guys but if I ever get personally in such a situation, I probably couldn't choose. It's fine and easy to say pick the female breeders, but if genetic diversity won't last more than a few generations, then fuck it all and die off. If the women say no, I'm not going to sanction rape.

That's not even bringing in the flawed premise of the op. I'm reminded of Ann Rand's hypotheticals like two people in a desert will you share your water. Whenever I say I will share your water, Randians say sharing my water absolutely means I die. How the fuck does that make sense. If you're ever stranded there's no way you know exactly when you'll be rescued, just like in this kind of situation there's no way you'd know exactly two weeks later. And even if you did, you can share and still not die. It's a false dilemma.
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Genetic diversity is fucked, yah. That doesn't mean humanity cannot propagate. There are examples of species which passed through a genetic bottleneck of 12 to 30 individuals or so. It's possible to rekindle the species, the problem is humanity will have a lower genetic diversity as a result and be more open to threats like disease, etc. However, I'm sure humans could take necessary measures once (if) they make it past several thousand humans - separate population centers, make non-contacting communications and propagate in more or less separated enclaves until humanity has grown significantly enough.
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Post by Starglider »

Why does the baby count at all? Surely it uses a small fraction of the oxygen and food of an adult, small enough that it doesn't have to compete for survival with an adult in this decision.
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Post by Soldier of Entropy »

Starglider wrote:Why does the baby count at all? Surely it uses a small fraction of the oxygen and food of an adult, small enough that it doesn't have to compete for survival with an adult in this decision.
If you read the OP, it says that the baby only counts for part of a person anyway.
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Post by 18-Till-I-Die »

I would...try to keep everyone who are "breedable" and who had useful skills: the doctor, the builder, someone strong and fit like the athlete. The future, what little of it there will be, will need their skills and the strength in the genes. Especially the doctor, and anyone who is physically strong, because i seriously dount we're the ONLY survivors and when/if the others show up i doubt they'll just sit down and share all they have all friendly and shit. Humans dont "do" unity.

Someone has to give some emotional support to these people too, so the mothers would stay, maybe the priest too. Unless these people are sociopaths they'll need some emotional support after such a catacylsm. Someone to talk to who they feel, true or not, can comfort them in a real way. And frankly the future needs someone like that too, if we fucked up so bad that we destroyed civilization then more compassionate people with, hopefully, less violent philosophy for the next civilization is a must-have.

I'd give up my own space, since i would hate to send people to die and then sit back and enjoy my post-Mad Max existance. Once the needed usefuls and breeders are chosen, i'd probably give someone my spot, probably the baby. The baby deserves to live, i already had a life so why not let the kid have the chance to get one too.
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Re: "The Bunker"-who would you save?

Post by RedImperator »

Anyone talking about casually breaking up families needs to seriously consider the consequences of that. It does you no good if you toss the reverend out only to have his wife and daughter strike out on their own as soon as the airlock opens, assuming they don't just strangle you in your sleep. Social cohesion is absolutely critical, especially since the ecosystem magically survived and lone survivors could conceivably live by hunting and gathering, or at least convince themselves they could.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

RedImperator wrote:Anyone talking about casually breaking up families needs to seriously consider the consequences of that. It does you no good if you toss the reverend out only to have his wife and daughter strike out on their own as soon as the airlock opens, assuming they don't just strangle you in your sleep. Social cohesion is absolutely critical, especially since the ecosystem magically survived and lone survivors could conceivably live by hunting and gathering, or at least convince themselves they could.
Unfortunately, given the conditions described in the OP, the breakup of families is inevitable. Unless you make that sort of choice, you either won't have the breeders you need to increase your numbers or you'll end up facing a critical resource problem before the two weeks are up.

Either some die or everybody dies. An utterly shitty choice but the only one you're down to. And since the only hope of survival is in the group, it's doubtful anybody's going to be striking out on their own.
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Post by RedImperator »

I worked it down to the only completely useless person who had to stay was the reverend. The way the OP is worded, you don't actually need farmers, so both Hortons can go; there should be enough livestock and unattended farms to sustain the group. By the time your numbers are up, the ecosystem should have recovered to the point a hunter-gatherer lifestyle can sustain the group.

Perhaps someone who is already slated to go out the door and suspects it can be quietly convinced to strangle the reverend in order to take his spot, only to be subsequently exiled (we can't have a murderer in our group, after all).
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Post by Patrick Degan »

There is of course another reason why the Reverend needs to step outside to get a breath of fresh radiation. Like Mr. Yoeman, he would also be too much bound to the Old Order and inclined to challenge the group-leader and to do so on moral grounds. He'd argue every "immoral" decision up and down and that kind of ongoing conflict would be utterly destructive to morale. For that reason in addition to the others, he dies.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
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Post by Coyote »

The OP also stated that the people are aware of the direness of the situation and are willing to abide by your decision, apparantly no matter how painful it would be for them personally. I'd bank on the minister going as a "sacrifice" for the survival of the rest. It may actually be easiest to get him out the door.

If the discussion among the survivors has come to the point of accepting their own deaths, I'm sure most of those going out the airlock are already quite awrare of it. The HIV guy would be stupid beyond comprehension to think he'd be allowed to survive.

The soldier-farmer, the carpenter, and the doctor are probably pretty assured of their survival, too, and they'd be right. Same with the kids. I bet some of the parents would be willing to sacrifice themselves for their kids' survival.

The ones that are probably sweating bullets are the "not-sures". The feminist collegiate knows that she's on a wire, being breedable but also probably being seen as a potential troublemaker with few survival skills. Same with the nun. The forest ranger has good survival skills but potential suicide problem, making his choice a moot point if he offs himself after being saved. The elderly farmer has some skills he could teach and some use as an organizer, perhaps, he's a coin-toss (and pobably not an optimistic one at that).

I'm kinda curious, though, how so many people with little survival skills got to the point where they're in a shelter in the first place, though.
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Post by PeZook »

Coyote wrote: I'm kinda curious, though, how so many people with little survival skills got to the point where they're in a shelter in the first place, though.
They probably just lived close. It's not like it takes some incredible skill to run to a shelter and hunker down.

I personally think that some "useless" people like the collegiate can be allowed to survive without much worry - they can be trained by others to perform some basic tasks, they can gather firewood or fruit while others do their specialized work, and if things go bad, having one more person armed with a scavenged gun would be priceless for the group. If you take the soldier, he can easily teach others to become proficient with firearms in a few weeks. If the college girl is healthy, breedable and mentally stable, why shouldn't she stay in the bunker to survive?

What I worry about in this scenario is the kind of society arising from a small interbreeding group of survivors. Obviously, women would be viewed as wombs to be filled every time possible, and would have to be shared by men to ensure genetic diversity. Even if society grows from this point, I fear what arises would be very dissimilar from what we consider "enlightened". Even if emotional problems would not cause the group to disintegrate at the start. There is some point to keeping the reverend, if he's willing to cooperate with you and console people who don't quite feel the new tribal order is all that good for us.

Then again, he'd probably challenge your authority and try to convert people, because most people are, frankly, dumb.
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Post by Klatoo »

3. Tiffany Black 11, Female, straight A
student, played junior league basketball, daughter of Marcus and Alicia Black, planned to be a physicist one day.

Longevity/health. Female. Old enough to pull own weight. Very trainable.


4. Dr. Will Oates, MD 37, Male, occupied as a doctor (general practice), divorced, one son Jeffery Oates, alcoholic, praised for career excellence, was under prosecution for tax fraud when the war hit.

Doctor.



5. Jeffery Oates 14, Male, passable student, participates in athletics and is in the agriscience and trade programs at school.

Agriscience and trade school, partially trained in useful skills. Can be further trained more easily. Health/longevity.



7. Candy Smith 21, Female, occupied as a prostitute, unmarried, one infant daughter Lilah Smith, extensive non-violent criminal record.

Breeder. Will likely pop out children every 9 months with little to no complaint. No problem with multiple fathers. Career change is minimal.



8. Lilah Smith 3 months old, Female, was born in the bomb shelter, mother is Candy Smith and father is unknown.

Longevity/health with investment. Female. Very trainable. Drain on resources is a minus, but will provide motivation and guidance for the formation of child rearing infrastructure.



9. Lt. Jonas Carpenter 25, Male, occupied as an officer in the Army in an infantry unit, was awarded a several medals and awards during his military career, unmarried, grew up on a grain farm and planed to return there when his tour of duty was over.

Farmer. Hunter. Health/longevity.




11. Helen Palemoon 24, Female, occupied as an elementary school teacher, widowed, grew up on a Native American reservation, is known for her work in increasing cultural awareness in her students.


Experience raising children. Female. Health/longevity. Familiar with how tribal level cultures operate, can guide culture formation from a position that is not complete ignorance.




12. Warren Scott 28, Male, occupied as a forest ranger, specialized in eco-science, divorced, had been under treatment for a suicide attempt following his divorce.

Ranger specialised in eco-science, possible farming applications. Hunter.


17. Vincent Horn 33, Male, occupied as a mechanic, widower, had two children (now deceased), served in the military when he was younger, amateur weight lifter.

Mechanic. Hunter. Healthy



18. Ivan Korolev 39, Male, occupied as a carpenter, divorced, no children, carves decorative furniture and figurines in his spare time.

Carpenter.


I would spend the two weeks discussing the 5 rules with the chosen survivors. A rough draft would be made by 'emergance day'. We would continue to discuss the 5 rules and morality/philosophy in general as part of our new culture. The idea is to make everyone understand why we hold these rules and internalize them especially since external enforcement isn't really feasible.
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