PBS to air 3-part atheism documentary. Christianists whinge.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Ghetto Edit: Oh and Stas, you'll be happy to know he used Gragarin's quote from when he was in orbit.

[Setesh]

http://www.geocities.com/~jmgould/adphoto/presadams.jpg
I distinctly recall saying once that "the Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" bitch. What part of plain English do ye not understand?

See these bitches believe only the words of the founders that could support their theocratic ways like this

The highest glory of the American Revolution was that it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.

Granted he never said that but a christian historian (who never met him) 50 years after he died said that's what he meant to say. Yay for revisionism.

[K. A. Pital]

[Covenant]

It's such hypocrisy. Why do they need people to understand their non-belief? Maybe because everytime you turn on the goddamn TV there's another "___ of the Bible" show on, or because nearly every single one of the Republican candidates wants to court the Fundie vote and even the Democrats spout on about their 'faith'? The fact that this is shaping the public policy of my country, and many countries, is important--and it's important for people to understand that not everyone believes that way. I always find it offensive that they are more angry that you would believe in nothing rather than something they'd consider wrong.

[Darth Ruinus]

Janice Crouse, director of the Beverly LaHaye Institute for the conservative group Concerned Women for America, told Cybercast News Service that "airing the program gives credibility and cohesiveness to individuals who seek to undermine the beliefs and values on which democracy and the American dream are founded."

Did I miss something? Democracy needs a God to function correctly?

[R. U. Serious]

Moyers talks with Miller about the series:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05042007/watch3.html

[TithonusSyndrome]

<snip>

Stas, do you know where I could find a clip of Khrushchev saying that? That'd make a great sample for a song intro.

[Imperial Overlord]

I thought so, I'm pretty sure Hitler said somewhere (maybe in the infamous table talk) that Norse revivalists were essentially worskshy stinky hippies that were afraid of actual war.

The Norse enthusiasts were Himmler's pets. He was quite the mystic, prone to romantic fantasies, and acquired quite the collection of kooks, rabid racists, and opportunists in a "scientific" society. Hitler couldn't stand them and let loose a rant or two about them, causing Himmler to cool his jets and scramble for scientific credibility. Some of them, and their students, ended up being very powerful in post-war German archeology and anthropology with their influence only beginning to slip in the 80s. A lot of material has come out about them recently.

While some of their activities were horrific others were comedic. Himmler believed that Norse myth was based on a fallen civilization of noble Germans who had lightning weapons. Some of their occult lore research was sending people to the remote regions of Finland to record the songs of still practicing wizards to find secrets of lost technology [convinced that a) the Fins were Germanic b) the previlance of magic in Finnish myth was a clue to lost mystical superscience]. They also were sent to cataloge Jews in conquered parts of the Soviet Union and had a hell of a time of it. Nazi race science held that all traits descended from race so what do you do about mountain dwelling, horse riding, gun totting, farming Jews who intermarry and share customs with their Muslim neighbors?

[Darth Wong]

Just remember: whenever you run into one of these "Hitler was an atheist" yahoos, point out that all of the evidence for this claim comes from uncorroborated hearsay, specifically two books: one by Rauschning and one by Bormann. Neither of them cited any corroborating sources whatsoever, so basically this whole argument literally rests on the uncorroborated claims of these two men. All of the other books and websites which repeat this claim can eventually trace their references back to these two men. Yes, 100% of them.

Meanwhile, the most famous of Hitler's writings, Mein Kampf, is openly and unabashedly Christian. And that is documentation you can take to the bank.

Once their claims of documented sources fall apart, they usually fall back to position #2: claiming that Hitler could not possibly have been Christian because he persecuted Christian churches that would not respect his authority. It shouldn't be too hard to see what's wrong with that reasoning.

[K. A. Pital]

Once their claims of documented sources fall apart, they usually fall back to position #2: claiming that Hitler could not possibly have been Christian because he persecuted Christian churches that would not respect his authority.

The Pope is not Christian too then.

[General Zod]

Once their claims of documented sources fall apart, they usually fall back to position #2: claiming that Hitler could not possibly have been Christian because he persecuted Christian churches that would not respect his authority.

The Pope is not Christian too then.

I take it you've never ran into fundie-tards that like claiming Catholicism isn't Christianity at all before?

[Surlethe]

I take it you've never ran into fundie-tards that like claiming Catholicism isn't Christianity at all before?

The more conservative the sect, the more likely it is to commit no true scotsmen. For example, the Catholic church is middle-of-the-road as far as Christians go, and it will only disavow the most liberal Christians; then you've got the hardcore snake-handlers from Tennessee backwoods, and they'll say Catholicism and even the more liberal Protestant denominations aren't Christian.

[K. A. Pital]

I take it you've never ran into fundie-tards that like claiming Catholicism isn't Christianity at all before?

Um... did you not know the Pope is the Antichrist according to True Christians (TM)?

[Thunderfire]

I take it you've never ran into fundie-tards that like claiming Catholicism isn't Christianity at all before?

As a catholic my answer would be "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR THIS COMMENT HERETIC".

[wolveraptor]

Even if Hitler was a follower of the Norse religion, he's still not an atheist. Believing in Norse gods still counts as theism (holy shit! Really?). Given this stunning fact, how the hell do fundies use Hitler to attack atheism.

[General Zod]

Even if Hitler was a follower of the Norse religion, he's still not an atheist. Believing in Norse gods still counts as theism (holy shit! Really?). Given this stunning fact, how the hell do fundies use Hitler to attack atheism.

Guilt by association perhaps. They don't want to be associated with him, so they lump him with another group of "undesirables."

[DPDarkPrimus]

I take it you've never ran into fundie-tards that like claiming Catholicism isn't Christianity at all before?

As a catholic my answer would be "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR THIS COMMENT HERETIC".

Sure, because you claiming another sect of Christianity isn't valid is somehow better than them claiming Catholicism isn't valid.

[Thunderfire]

Sure, because you claiming another sect of Christianity isn't valid is somehow better than them claiming Catholicism isn't valid.

I know but countering them with their own tactics can be effective sometimes.

[PainRack]

Nowhere. There was a guy named Rosenberg who tried to promote some kind of new age Norse revivalism in Germany, but it's truly a symptom of the derangement of the right-wing and Christian apologism in general that they pretend a guy named "Rosenberg" was the true seat of power in the Nazi party.

That and taking quotes such as "Warrior, go forth to Valhalla!" When Hitler was at Hidenburg funeral to mean everything about Hitler beliefs, while ignoring quotes such as how Hitler is doing the Lord work when he's killing jews.

[Darth Servo]

"Evidence" and "Faith" are two different words, with completely different meanings. Christians would do well to remember that.

They probably don't realize they're different because the false idea comes straight from the Bible itself.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

It doesn't matter to them that the dictionary has completely different meanings for those terms.

[Elfdart]

Once their claims of documented sources fall apart, they usually fall back to position #2: claiming that Hitler could not possibly have been Christian because he persecuted Christian churches that would not respect his authority.

The Pope is not Christian too then.

Since Hitler had a bunch of Nazis killed, he wasn't a Nazi either.

[Darth Servo]

Once their claims of documented sources fall apart, they usually fall back to position #2: claiming that Hitler could not possibly have been Christian because he persecuted Christian churches that would not respect his authority.

The Pope is not Christian too then.

Since Hitler had a bunch of Nazis killed, he wasn't a Nazi either.

Hey, according to my favorite ID retard on StarTrek.com, all those Christinas killed don't carry nearly as much weight as the guy's priest cousin being taken off to the concentration camp. See, because Priests are God's representatives here on earth, to attack a priest is to attack God himself.

[ClaysGhost]

I thought so, I'm pretty sure Hitler said somewhere (maybe in the infamous table talk) that Norse revivalists were essentially worskshy stinky hippies that were afraid of actual war.

I think Speer had Hitler saying something to the effect that if the old gods had been any good, Christianity would not have been able to eclipse them.

[SCRawl]

I just finished watching this series. I honestly don't know what the religionists have their panties in a bunch about, unless they're so insecure about their own beliefs that to hear them given anything less than their approved level of zeal it causes them to seriously question them.

(I could write that again to sort out the subjects and objects, but it's getting too close to my bed time.)

[Napoleon the Clown]

SCRawl, there's people out there who very literally want a theocracy set up. Some will even admit it point blank. There's sites out there full of them. You're exactly right when you say that they're too insecure to allow dissenting opinions expressed. That's a large part of why "controversial opinions" being shown in the classroom can result in a $500,000 lawsuit. The nuts that are like that won't admit it, but it really does come down to being afraid that they or someone else will be swayed.