High price&fleeing developers will hurt PS3

[Ace Pace]

Fuck thats along title.

The Los Angeles Times is running a story that puts Sony in a bleak position with the PlayStation 3, noting that the system is a distant third in systems sold since launch and suffers from a lack of quality titles. The LA Times does note that the situation should look familiar to PlayStation 2 fans, and we all know how that ended. A price cut and a few must-have titles could put the PlayStation 3 back in the game, and with that comes a strong win if Blu-ray takes off, making Sony even more money. The problem is that even with cheaper lasers, it may be harder for Sony to drop the price than it was in previous generations. There is the issue of Japanese developers.

Kyoshi Shin of the International Game Developers Assn. in Japan said many creators there were shifting their focus to the Wii.
"When people talk about the PS3 on chat forums," he said, "they say it's like going to a very expensive restaurant and not getting anything to eat."

The Wii is selling many more systems, and even better for developers, it costs less to develop for. It's not a difficult choice for some developers: chop some PS3 games to make room for Wii titles that cost less and sell more. This is where things may start to go really bad for the PlayStation 3: if developers get cold feet from looking at current trends and drop PlayStation 3 projects, it could mean a lack of software that lasts for years, and unless Sony decides to soak up additional losses or further refine the hardware to save on production costs, the price could stay at $600 for a long time; both of these things could keep the PlayStation 3 from taking off in 2008. Sony still has the high sales of the PS2 as a profit center, but as more people make the move to the next generation of consoles it could see its installed base erode at a frightening clip.

[SirNitram]

It's interesting that developers are saying it's cheaper to develop for the Wii; it's been known it's dirt-cheap to buy the developer kit, but there's been hullaballo all over here about how expensive it would have to be to work with the control scheme.

Ultimately, the PS3 could duplicate the PS2's success, but that requires a price drop and some must-have blockbusters exclusive to it. And exclusives keep becoming multiplatform.

[The Kernel]

It's interesting that developers are saying it's cheaper to develop for the Wii; it's been known it's dirt-cheap to buy the developer kit, but there's been hullaballo all over here about how expensive it would have to be to work with the control scheme.

I really don't know why this is brought up so often. Between the budget for a modern game plus the licensing fees, dev kits are merely a drop in the bucket.

I suppose there are some side benefits to a cheap dev kit (getting students to experiment and learn them for example) but I doubt any development house has based much of their decision of a platform on the cost of the dev kit.

EDIT: By the way, I assume you mentioned this is reference to the article pointing out it is cheaper to develop for the Wii. This is defintely true, but not in the way you think. The Wii's lower bar for graphics means that the majority of the cost in a modern game (art assets) is reduced significantly.

EDIT2: It's funny, given the huge success of the Wii lately, I'm starting to wonder if the arms race for graphics superiority might be over. I'd tend to think this is not the case (rather I think that the next gen consoles simply came too early) but it's an interesting thing to think about nonetheless.

[Sharp-kun]

EDIT2: It's funny, given the huge success of the Wii lately, I'm starting to wonder if the arms race for graphics superiority might be over. I'd tend to think this is not the case (rather I think that the next gen consoles simply came too early) but it's an interesting thing to think about nonetheless.

I@m interested in the success of the Wii. I've heard plenty about the amount of consoles its sold, but I've heard nothing about any particular games on it being huge hits (other than Zelda).

Have there actually been any Wii exclusive big hits yet?

[Ace Pace]

EDIT: By the way, I assume you mentioned this is reference to the article pointing out it is cheaper to develop for the Wii. This is defintely true, but not in the way you think. The Wii's lower bar for graphics means that the majority of the cost in a modern game (art assets) is reduced significantly.

Could we be seeing the cliff of art asset costs just as procedural textures are about to hit? We have some games using them, Roboblitz(a small XBLA game) is the only one I can think of easily. Procedural textures, even if only used for generic stuff like boxs, could help offload some things.

[The Kernel]

EDIT: By the way, I assume you mentioned this is reference to the article pointing out it is cheaper to develop for the Wii. This is defintely true, but not in the way you think. The Wii's lower bar for graphics means that the majority of the cost in a modern game (art assets) is reduced significantly.

Could we be seeing the cliff of art asset costs just as procedural textures are about to hit? We have some games using them, Roboblitz(a small XBLA game) is the only one I can think of easily. Procedural textures, even if only used for generic stuff like boxs, could help offload some things.

As for real cost savings from using prodcedural textures...I'll believe it when I see it. Not impossible, just overhyped and short on proof thusfar.

[Ace Pace]

As for real cost savings from using prodcedural textures...I'll believe it when I see it. Not impossible, just overhyped and short on proof thusfar.

One good use of it is actully not in saving time/money, but saving space. Putting as many textures(and therfor storage stuff) as procedural, then generating them during level load, could significently free up space in console games(and less so on PC games, which could use this but unpack in install stage). This might allow more complex sound, or other assets.

Just musing.

[The Kernel]

As for real cost savings from using prodcedural textures...I'll believe it when I see it. Not impossible, just overhyped and short on proof thusfar.

One good use of it is actully not in saving time/money, but saving space. Putting as many textures(and therfor storage stuff) as procedural, then generating them during level load, could significently free up space in console games(and less so on PC games, which could use this but unpack in install stage). This might allow more complex sound, or other assets.

Just musing.

Space really isn't on the list of bottlenecks in modern games Ace.

[Ace Pace]

Space really isn't on the list of bottlenecks in modern games Ace.

GTA4 developers say otherwise.

[Mad]

Could we be seeing the cliff of art asset costs just as procedural textures are about to hit? We have some games using them, Roboblitz(a small XBLA game) is the only one I can think of easily. Procedural textures, even if only used for generic stuff like boxs, could help offload some things.

Only if defining the algorithms and parameters for each texture requires less time than creating the texture in a graphics package.

Time must also be spent on creating the actual 3d model, too. (Though I don't know what the ratio of time spent on models vs textures is.)

[Praxis]

EDIT2: It's funny, given the huge success of the Wii lately, I'm starting to wonder if the arms race for graphics superiority might be over. I'd tend to think this is not the case (rather I think that the next gen consoles simply came too early) but it's an interesting thing to think about nonetheless.

I@m interested in the success of the Wii. I've heard plenty about the amount of consoles its sold, but I've heard nothing about any particular games on it being huge hits (other than Zelda).

Have there actually been any Wii exclusive big hits yet?

The Wii hasn't been out long enough; much like the XBox 360 at this time last year, the early game lineup is pretty sucky.

With Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Super Mario Strikers Charged, Mario Party 8, Mario & Sonic At The Olympics, Batallion Wars II, Metroid Prime 3, Manhunt 2, Pokemon Battle Revolution, Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Guitar Hero III, an exclusive Tony Hawk game, NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, Wii Music, Soul Calibur Legends, Fire Emblem, Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party, and several other major titles all due in 2007, and multiple Final Fantasy titles, a Kirby game, and a ton more games to be announced at E3 '07 due in 2008...

The Wii's going to do fine.

Of all the games I listed there, Guitar Hero III is the only multiplatform game, and Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition is the only port.

Nintendo just released the Japanese release schedule and all those games were set for 07, and their current tentative dates show all the U.S. ones in 07 as well. Strikers, Mario Party, and Pokemon are going to be released in the next two months though.

[Praxis]

Procedural textures is something I'm unsure on. It would definitely save space and might improve load times (less information to load), but I don't know if it's going to make things significantlycheaper or less time consuming.

While it's certainly a good thing, I think there might be too much hype placed on it. I'd love to be wrong though. Don't really have enough information to conclude.

[Mobius]

With Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Super Mario Strikers Charged, Mario Party 8, Mario & Sonic At The Olympics, Batallion Wars II, Metroid Prime 3, Manhunt 2, Pokemon Battle Revolution, Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Guitar Hero III, an exclusive Tony Hawk game, NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams, Wii Music, Soul Calibur Legends, Fire Emblem, Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party, and several other major titles all due in 2007, and multiple Final Fantasy titles, a Kirby game, and a ton more games to be announced at E3 '07 due in 2008...

What no para para dance simulator? come on

[Ace Pace]

Only if defining the algorithms and parameters for each texture requires less time than creating the texture in a graphics package.

Time must also be spent on creating the actual 3d model, too. (Though I don't know what the ratio of time spent on models vs textures is.)

That depends on model complexity. If I recall the short preview on Roboblitz, along with expose at...forgot the site name, it pays off the best with simple stuff. Main game models are still to complex to easily proceduralise, but still, if you're basically doing the simple stuff, it might be better. However, nowdays, the basic generic textures are bought in bulk from media companies.