ST V SW, and a few imbetween.

BloodstoneAT · Post by **BloodstoneAT** » 2007-05-16 05:36am

A little problem I've been having recently. Me and my Dad are constantly getting into hour long debates over which species is better over all. We tend to pit the Jaffa against the Klingons, or the Borg against Obi Wan.
One such comparison has been bugging me for a while, who is the better species, The Borg Or the Stormtroopers?

Napoleon the Clown · Post by **Napoleon the Clown** » 2007-05-16 05:41am

Stormtroopers. Better guns, better training, and better uniforms. And getting captured by stormtroopers is a less pleasant scenario as well. Either you die, painfully, or you get tortured. A lot. And then die painfully. The Borg will usually just ignore you.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-05-16 05:47am

Napoleon the Clown wrote:Stormtroopers. Better guns, better training, and better uniforms. And getting captured by stormtroopers is a less pleasant scenario as well. Either you die, painfully, or you get tortured. A lot. And then die painfully. The Borg will usually just ignore you.

Err. The borg operate on you without anaestetic if they capture you, regardless of who you are (Well, unless you're 'unworthy') until all thought is gone. Given the screaming and pleading from their captives in Dark Frontier, it's a fair bet you're aware of this. Stormtroopers will either just shoot you, imprison you or let you go about your business, depending on whether they want you for something. While there's bits of the Galactic Empire that are every bit as bad, on the whole, Stormtroopers aren't anywhere near as monstrous to their captives.

BloodstoneAT · Post by **BloodstoneAT** » 2007-05-16 06:45am

I have to agree with Necronlord, when faced with the Borg, the stormtroopers do look like kittens.
Borg, for all their flaws are supiror. I'm betting not even a Jedi Knight could take on the Borg.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2007-05-16 06:54am

BloodstoneAT wrote:I have to agree with Necronlord, when faced with the Borg, the stormtroopers do look like kittens.
Borg, for all their flaws are supiror. I'm betting not even a Jedi Knight could take on the Borg.

He's just referring to the unpleasantness of being captured by the Borg as opposed to Stormtroopers.
Do you really think a bunch of shambling tactially inept zombies would pose a threat to Stormies, let alone Jedi?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-05-16 06:55am

BloodstoneAT wrote:I have to agree with Necronlord, when faced with the Borg, the stormtroopers do look like kittens.
Borg, for all their flaws are supiror. I'm betting not even a Jedi Knight could take on the Borg.

Hooooh. I never said that. Merely that I'd preffer to be in the Stormtroopers' power. That doesn't mean they're superior. Just do nastier things to you. By that standard, Hitler could take on the Time Lords of Gallifrey and win.

EDIT: Changed 'scarier' to 'superior' typo.

SilverWingedSeraph · Post by **SilverWingedSeraph** » 2007-05-16 07:00am

BloodstoneAT wrote:I have to agree with Necronlord, when faced with the Borg, the stormtroopers do look like kittens.
Borg, for all their flaws are supiror. I'm betting not even a Jedi Knight could take on the Borg.

You're obviously new, here. Use some goddamn logic. A Klingon with one of those retarded bat-leths or whatever they're called, can take out drones in hant to hand. Jedi are faster, stronger, have precognition, and LIGHTSABERS. That's not even mentioning having the ability to throw and crush things with their minds.

Get a clue. A Jedi could take on an Army of borg and come out on top. Borg have no ranged weapons, and shamble along like zombies. Stormtroopers have high-powered blasters that don't have a frequency, and thus, cannot be adapted to. Stormtroopers could walk all over the Borg, nevermind Jedi.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2007-05-16 07:07am

IIRC in First Contact, Worf - in a spacesuit - didn't even use a bat'leth, he used one of those smaller blades that are essentially glorified machetes against a drone.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-05-16 07:21am

What is the basis for these comparisons? Are you somehow removing these groups from their settings? Are you, for instance, comparing borg to stormies in simply a close combat sense? Because that doesn't really make sense - the stormies have range, tactical flexibility, and far more powerful weapons. Can borg even teleport without their ships? Once borg get their ships, it's even worse - the ships the stormies deploy from are going to totally bitchslap the borg and their cubes.

Suggesting that either stormies or the borg are a species is ... interesting.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-05-16 08:22am

Stormtroopers are a species

?

Hell, for that matter, the Borg are a species?!

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-05-16 02:20pm

Stark wrote:Can borg even teleport without their ships?

No. The 'super drone' in Voyager had such a device, and this was explicitly noted as being an advancement.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-05-16 02:22pm

What's your criteria on "better"? If you're talking about fighting capabilities, there is no way zombiefied drones that walk at one mile and hour is going to be able to defeat heavily armed, trained soldiers. I mean, are Borg drones even able to penetrate Stormtrooper armor? The only thing I can see them doing is tossing Stormtroopers around but even that assumes they can close within melee range, which would be quite a challenge considering how effective E-11 blaster rifles/carbines can be.

Lord Relvenous · Post by **Lord Relvenous** » 2007-05-16 02:25pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Stormtroopers are a species ?

Hell, for that matter, the Borg are a species?!

Why, yes didn't you know?

Stormtrooper:
Kingdom: Animal
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammal
Order: Primate
Family: Kickidae
Genus: Kick
Species: Ass

Borg:
Kingdom: Lawlz
Phylum: Theyata
Class: Shambleal
Order: Likeate
Family: Fuckindae
Genus: Zombieso
Species: Lawlzien

Don't you remember your basic xenobiology?

On a more serious note, the stormtrooper's armor would completely protect them form the damage from all hand to hand attacks, so the troopers could punch the borg until the bleed from the anus, and the Borg couldn't do anything about it.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-05-16 02:57pm

Lord Relvenous wrote:On a more serious note, the stormtrooper's armor would completely protect them form the damage from all hand to hand attacks, so the troopers could punch the borg until the bleed from the anus, and the Borg couldn't do anything about it.

No amount of wearable armor is going to protect anyone from being thrown across the room as demonstrated by the Borg.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-05-16 03:16pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
Lord Relvenous wrote:On a more serious note, the stormtrooper's armor would completely protect them form the damage from all hand to hand attacks, so the troopers could punch the borg until the bleed from the anus, and the Borg couldn't do anything about it.
No amount of wearable armor is going to protect anyone from being thrown across the room as demonstrated by the Borg.

Droid chucked a metal spear hard enough to pick a full grown in man in ST Armour up and slam him into a wall, the armour had a small blemish and other than a bit of ache the wearer was fine.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-05-16 03:22pm

General Schatten wrote:Droid chucked a metal spear hard enough to pick a full grown in man in ST Armour up and slam him into a wall, the armour had a small blemish and other than a bit of ache the wearer was fine.

Where was this? I was under the impression that being slammed against a hard wall with enough force will knock someone out regardless of ST armor.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-05-16 03:29pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
General Schatten wrote:Droid chucked a metal spear hard enough to pick a full grown in man in ST Armour up and slam him into a wall, the armour had a small blemish and other than a bit of ache the wearer was fine.
Where was this? I was under the impression that being slammed against a hard wall with enough force will knock someone out regardless of ST armor.

Lightsabers from the Young Jedi Knights Series

"Qorl stood inside the training chamber holding a wicked-looking spear in his black-wrapped left hand. His droid replacement gripped the gleaming shaft with enough force to dent the metal."
...
"He cocked his droid arm back - and hurled the deadly weapon ..."
"Norys slammed into the wall, his helmet ringing against the hard metal bulkhead. His vision sparkled with impending unconsciousness."
...
"He looked down at his chest in amazement and saw only a nick in the white armor where the spear had struck."

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-05-16 03:34pm

General Schatten wrote:Lightsabers from the Young Jedi Knights Series

"Qorl stood inside the training chamber holding a wicked-looking spear in his black-wrapped left hand. His droid replacement gripped the gleaming shaft with enough force to dent the metal."
...
"He cocked his droid arm back - and hurled the deadly weapon ..."
"Norys slammed into the wall, his helmet ringing against the hard metal bulkhead. His vision sparkled with impending unconsciousness."
...
"He looked down at his chest in amazement and saw only a nick in the white armor where the spear had struck

From the text you provided, it merely slammed him against the wall, which requires less force than say being thrown across the room.

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2007-05-16 04:15pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
General Schatten wrote:Lightsabers from the Young Jedi Knights Series

"Qorl stood inside the training chamber holding a wicked-looking spear in his black-wrapped left hand. His droid replacement gripped the gleaming shaft with enough force to dent the metal."
...
"He cocked his droid arm back - and hurled the deadly weapon ..."
"Norys slammed into the wall, his helmet ringing against the hard metal bulkhead. His vision sparkled with impending unconsciousness."
...
"He looked down at his chest in amazement and saw only a nick in the white armor where the spear had struck
From the text you provided, it merely slammed him against the wall, which requires less force than say being thrown across the room.

The point, good sir, being that it is very, very difficult to take out Imperial Stormtroopers in hand to hand combat, unless you happen to have a lightsaber.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-05-16 04:23pm

Master_Baerne wrote:The point, good sir, being that it is very, very difficult to take out Imperial Stormtroopers in hand to hand combat, unless you happen to have a lightsaber.

And my point is that an Imperial Stormtrooper is wearing Stormtrooper armor doesn't mean that he is immune to all physical attacks as evidenced in ROTJ. If you think a Stormtrooper is going to have an easy time fighting hand to hand with a Borg drone just because he's wearing his armor, you're as deluded as the Trekkies that think Stormtrooper armor sucks because it doesn't make someone immune to things like force and momentum.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-05-16 04:27pm

Master_Baerne wrote:The point, good sir, being that it is very, very difficult to take out Imperial Stormtroopers in hand to hand combat, unless you happen to have a lightsaber.

Ah, but their necks are unprotected, so theoretically, one could just break the trooper's neck!
If one would somehow survive the heavy suppressive fire that being laid down said trooper and his mates that is...

Have the Borg ever been seen breaking someone's neck?

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2007-05-16 04:35pm

MagnusTheReD wrote:
Master_Baerne wrote:The point, good sir, being that it is very, very difficult to take out Imperial Stormtroopers in hand to hand combat, unless you happen to have a lightsaber.
Ah, but their necks are unprotected, so theoretically, one could just break the trooper's neck!
If one would somehow survive the heavy suppressive fire that being laid down said trooper and his mates that is...

Have the Borg ever been seen breaking someone's neck?

Possibly the "Descent" Borg did to a Redshirt. Though I don't remember clearly.
Regular Borg are too focused on assimilation to actually do anything useful.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2007-05-16 04:36pm

They have been shown to exhibit great strength. I'm sure they could snap necks, but that'd be wasteful.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-05-16 04:51pm

Lord Pounder wrote:They have been shown to exhibit great strength. I'm sure they could snap necks, but that'd be wasteful.

Well, they did throw those redshirts across the room, surely they understood that the redshirts would hardly be usable after such a treatment.
So it seems like the Borg are willing to damage potentially assimilate-able (is this even a real word?) targets if they see it fit.

Another question would be is how well the body glove would fair against those Borg nano tubes, or whatever they call those things.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-05-16 04:58pm

General Schatten wrote:Droid chucked a metal spear hard enough to pick a full grown in man in ST Armour up and slam him into a wall, the armour had a small blemish and other than a bit of ache the wearer was fine.

If I didn't like the Nick Briggs quote too much, I'd sig that. It was a cyborg - which means that he really shouldn't have been able to generate that much momentum with his droid arm, as it was attached to meat and bone, like a normal arm - and the 'man' in question was not full grown, he was a teenage delinquent.