I really wish start locations were a little more fair! Ah well. It just seems like such a lousy way to start the game.
BTW, who are these last two guys? They're still not all turned in. For shame! It's turn one!
Space Empires V PBW game?
Moderator: Thanas
For me personally it's more exciting. I count no less than eight different ways into my territory. For the first time ever I'm faced with a choice: militarize heavily early and hope people understand the concept of MAD, or go heavy on colonizer and risk getting invaded and defeated. I cannot do what I usually do, that is go low on military and fortify one single entrance into my empire.
They'll be very interesting diplomacy. There'll be no clear borders or boundaries, difficult to defend terrain and homeworlds spread out... whoever the Federation meets first, I'm going to try and join with them at the hip. Allies are the only way. If you've got shit territory, could trade ally planets for planets in your own territory. I'm planning to try that, and hoping I don't meet someone suicidal who wants to start an early war. Cause even if you win, against a half decent player, you'll be crippled -- weapons platforms can fight in SE:V in ground combat, so dropping small troop isn't much of an option unless you have shitloads of them.
They'll be very interesting diplomacy. There'll be no clear borders or boundaries, difficult to defend terrain and homeworlds spread out... whoever the Federation meets first, I'm going to try and join with them at the hip. Allies are the only way. If you've got shit territory, could trade ally planets for planets in your own territory. I'm planning to try that, and hoping I don't meet someone suicidal who wants to start an early war. Cause even if you win, against a half decent player, you'll be crippled -- weapons platforms can fight in SE:V in ground combat, so dropping small troop isn't much of an option unless you have shitloads of them.
There's be a degree of excitement if I had some sort of promise that my nearby systems will be something of value, but I'm already drawing up What If plans in case they're barren, or deadly traps. It's even possible that one of the systems between my systems (since they can only reach each other along one route to a hub system somewhere else) could be a dead or barren or trap system, which would basically split my empire into three completely self-contained micro empires without there being anything I can say about it.
So I'd call that frustrating. Early expansion is very important, and to draw lots and come up with a crud system just means that your early efforts will be harder and less productive. People who have access to greens will get good worlds and they won't need to scout around for them. People with no greens will need to scout nearby systems before they get that similar type of boost, wasting their other colonizers on lesser worlds, and needing more of them for the same benefit.
And it's possible that the people with no greens now, when they scout, may get no greens later either--or no more worlds at all. It's even worse for the people who are distributed, as that adds another variable to the equation, and hopefully whatever sectors are between their worlds don't contain nasty surprises.
So, really, it just limits my options. I may be encouraged now to try something divergent, but I could have done that before, and I could certainy have done it with a green under my belt. All in all it's really not that huge of a difference, but it is a large advantage if all other things are equal. Since it seems like some of us have wildly scattered worlds, I'd say that's even worse, as it really hampers your defense and makes any strategy more difficult.
So I'd call that frustrating. Early expansion is very important, and to draw lots and come up with a crud system just means that your early efforts will be harder and less productive. People who have access to greens will get good worlds and they won't need to scout around for them. People with no greens will need to scout nearby systems before they get that similar type of boost, wasting their other colonizers on lesser worlds, and needing more of them for the same benefit.
And it's possible that the people with no greens now, when they scout, may get no greens later either--or no more worlds at all. It's even worse for the people who are distributed, as that adds another variable to the equation, and hopefully whatever sectors are between their worlds don't contain nasty surprises.
So, really, it just limits my options. I may be encouraged now to try something divergent, but I could have done that before, and I could certainy have done it with a green under my belt. All in all it's really not that huge of a difference, but it is a large advantage if all other things are equal. Since it seems like some of us have wildly scattered worlds, I'd say that's even worse, as it really hampers your defense and makes any strategy more difficult.
I know what you mean. Barren systems suck donkey balls. You sound like you've got it the worst, no greens and spilt empire. A person can probably settle for one or the other... no greens and all homeworlds together, or spilt empire and many greens, but handicapped with both is a serious disadvantage.
What colony type and air did you pick? If you picked a rare kind, you could be in for a hard time early on, but people will fuck their mother for your breathers. Anybody who isn't oxygen/rock, their citizens are gold and I'll give a lot for a "migration" treaty with methane and hydrogen breathers.
Weapons platforms with armor and PD can survive starship level weapons, and they fight in ground combat. Tier 0 ground troops puny pew-pew guns won't dent it (pretty cool like a little fort in the city.) Fighters have a 50% bonus that can't be overcome with PD until combat sensors get to 6-9 and PD gets to 6 for bomblet missiles and flak cannons. And there's fog of war and exploration. So unlike SE:IV, at least a person with total shit has a chance and can hold out reasonably well until the mid-game.
At least with 14 players, it's possible to have a lot of mini-Federations and alliances to gang up on the lucky ones. Here's what I'm hoping happens: all the shit people gang up on the powerhouses. Hopefully people recognize that teaming up with a "lucky" person with 5 or 6 greens isn't as important as teaming up with a shit person with intact homeworlds. We got to bring down the Trogdors of the galaxy, and fast, before they totally outmatch the little ones in research.
What colony type and air did you pick? If you picked a rare kind, you could be in for a hard time early on, but people will fuck their mother for your breathers. Anybody who isn't oxygen/rock, their citizens are gold and I'll give a lot for a "migration" treaty with methane and hydrogen breathers.
Weapons platforms with armor and PD can survive starship level weapons, and they fight in ground combat. Tier 0 ground troops puny pew-pew guns won't dent it (pretty cool like a little fort in the city.) Fighters have a 50% bonus that can't be overcome with PD until combat sensors get to 6-9 and PD gets to 6 for bomblet missiles and flak cannons. And there's fog of war and exploration. So unlike SE:IV, at least a person with total shit has a chance and can hold out reasonably well until the mid-game.
At least with 14 players, it's possible to have a lot of mini-Federations and alliances to gang up on the lucky ones. Here's what I'm hoping happens: all the shit people gang up on the powerhouses. Hopefully people recognize that teaming up with a "lucky" person with 5 or 6 greens isn't as important as teaming up with a shit person with intact homeworlds. We got to bring down the Trogdors of the galaxy, and fast, before they totally outmatch the little ones in research.
One very dangerous, but possibly the best strategy for someone with no planets at all or just a small handfull, is fast and brutal militarization with von neumann starbases.
Set homeworlds to emergency build and build out twelve space yard starbases with a fighter bay in ten turns. In ten turns you'll have 36 starbases. In fifteen maybe 80. By then research should've gotten an average level of PD maybe 3-4, and a good weapon. You could amass a huge fleet, and take one or two empires whole.
I'm considering this, but my territory is not so shit as this is my only option. But it's one.
Set homeworlds to emergency build and build out twelve space yard starbases with a fighter bay in ten turns. In ten turns you'll have 36 starbases. In fifteen maybe 80. By then research should've gotten an average level of PD maybe 3-4, and a good weapon. You could amass a huge fleet, and take one or two empires whole.
I'm considering this, but my territory is not so shit as this is my only option. But it's one.
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Nephtys
- Sith Acolyte
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But that's no fun! You'd make yourself the enemy of the universe immediately with such a silly buildup. Not to mention you'd have zero strategic depth, and your opponents will gobble every good planet near you.brianeyci wrote:One very dangerous, but possibly the best strategy for someone with no planets at all or just a small handfull, is fast and brutal militarization with von neumann starbases.
Set homeworlds to emergency build and build out twelve space yard starbases with a fighter bay in ten turns. In ten turns you'll have 36 starbases. In fifteen maybe 80. By then research should've gotten an average level of PD maybe 3-4, and a good weapon. You could amass a huge fleet, and take one or two empires whole.
I'm considering this, but my territory is not so shit as this is my only option. But it's one.
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Alan Bolte
- Sith Devotee
- Posts: 2611
- Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
- Location: Columbus, OH
OOC theater: comedy gold.brianeyci wrote:We got to bring down the Trogdors of the galaxy.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
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There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
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Heh heh score is visible to all eh? Well that changes things.
Hm, looks like ships and bases are under the same category. So anybody who's doing what I'm suggesting could stay relatively hidden until turn 10 or so. The beauty of it is you'll have a hundred ships shitting out all at once, with relatively modern equipment. By the time people realize it's already too late. The perfect way to do it is if you had one red planet in your home systems. That way the red could pop out fighters as a defense for ten turns or so, and by turn 20 you'd have a 50 frigate fleet (at least).
The people with greens can afford to turtle. The people without, or who have spilt empires like Luke, Covenant and me have a difficult decision. If we don't militarize heavily early on, and one of our homeworlds fall, then it's game over. A hundred frigates and destroyers could be the best option.
Of course it all changes if I get a good ally. If I get someone who goes into a partnership with me as soon as he meets me, then I don't have to be paranoid and worry about an invasion I can't handle.
Besides, quite the hypocrite Nephtys?
I know you always militarize early on, and you always use base space yards. Hahaha. I don't know about you but rampaging through the galaxy with 100+ frigates seems pretty fun.
I'm still not sure if I'll do it though. Depends on what my secret weapon thinks.
Hm, looks like ships and bases are under the same category. So anybody who's doing what I'm suggesting could stay relatively hidden until turn 10 or so. The beauty of it is you'll have a hundred ships shitting out all at once, with relatively modern equipment. By the time people realize it's already too late. The perfect way to do it is if you had one red planet in your home systems. That way the red could pop out fighters as a defense for ten turns or so, and by turn 20 you'd have a 50 frigate fleet (at least).
The people with greens can afford to turtle. The people without, or who have spilt empires like Luke, Covenant and me have a difficult decision. If we don't militarize heavily early on, and one of our homeworlds fall, then it's game over. A hundred frigates and destroyers could be the best option.
Of course it all changes if I get a good ally. If I get someone who goes into a partnership with me as soon as he meets me, then I don't have to be paranoid and worry about an invasion I can't handle.
Besides, quite the hypocrite Nephtys?
I know you always militarize early on, and you always use base space yards. Hahaha. I don't know about you but rampaging through the galaxy with 100+ frigates seems pretty fun.I'm still not sure if I'll do it though. Depends on what my secret weapon thinks.
I sense a battle between the haves and have-nots approaching...brianeyci wrote:We got to bring down the Trogdors of the galaxy.
Trogdors of the galaxy, unite! We must crush the Covenants of the galaxy before they rise up to take that which is ours! Who's with me???
Seriously, though, if it makes you guys feel better, I'm spread out across the three systems as well, and they're not all next to each other.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
Secret weapon eh. What is it, wormhole beams to scatter the picket, tractor beams, boarding parties?
Don't worry I've got a secret weapon too. As already foreshadowed earlier, my plan went into action even before the game started. All will reveal itself in time.
I feel great Trogdor. I'm not as bad off as Covenant, I actually have greens, and I can deal with the spilt systems.
If the game's stable for the next few turns, wonder who's in for RP.
Don't worry I've got a secret weapon too. As already foreshadowed earlier, my plan went into action even before the game started. All will reveal itself in time.
I feel great Trogdor. I'm not as bad off as Covenant, I actually have greens, and I can deal with the spilt systems.
If the game's stable for the next few turns, wonder who's in for RP.
You know I'm always up for RP. I'm really looking forward to it; we haven't such a diverse bunch of empires since the Adamant game.brianeyci wrote:If the game's stable for the next few turns, wonder who's in for RP.
"I want to mow down a bunch of motherfuckers with absurdly large weapons and relative impunity - preferably in and around a skyscraper. Then I want to fight a grim battle against the unlikely duo of the Terminator and Robocop. The last level should involve (but not be limited to) multiple robo-Hitlers and a gorillasaurus rex."--Uraniun235 on his ideal FPS game
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force."--Darth Vader
Too bad my Zerg don't transfer to SEV. That was a pretty badass shipset!Trogdor wrote:You know I'm always up for RP. I'm really looking forward to it; we haven't such a diverse bunch of empires since the Adamant game.brianeyci wrote:If the game's stable for the next few turns, wonder who's in for RP.
And anyway, I'm not going to quit because my position zomg sux. I like to complain early and often though, as is my nature when it comes to these games. There is as much of a chance of me striking gold with my next three colonizer/explorers and of the people with some greens already to find some barren, dead worlds not even worth colonizing. I'd rather have a vast swath of real estate that's okay than just a core of good worlds. Things mature in the longterm and we can eventually grab cross-compatible worlds outside of our current habitation, and being able to control large areas of space have other benefits, like asteroid mining and strategic influence.
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InnocentBystander
- The Russian Circus
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Wonder what kind of setup I got, hopefully lots of nice planets 
Did we move up to a large galaxy, or still medium?
Also- are we sending our turn files to Tux or PBW?
Did we move up to a large galaxy, or still medium?
Also- are we sending our turn files to Tux or PBW?
We know how well super-secret weapons worked out for the GermansNephtys wrote:Hey, My military buildups are the old-fashioned way. Von-Neumanning the galaxy is so dull. It's more fun to crush them with a qualitative edge. Or secret weapon.
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Keevan_Colton
- Emperor's Hand
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It depends, are we using the "Most hours of coverage on the History Channel" victory condition?InnocentBystander wrote:Wonder what kind of setup I got, hopefully lots of nice planets
Did we move up to a large galaxy, or still medium?
Also- are we sending our turn files to Tux or PBW?
We know how well super-secret weapons worked out for the GermansNephtys wrote:Hey, My military buildups are the old-fashioned way. Von-Neumanning the galaxy is so dull. It's more fun to crush them with a qualitative edge. Or secret weapon.
"Prodesse Non Nocere."
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
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Keevan_Colton
- Emperor's Hand
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I'm definetly up for some RPTrogdor wrote:You know I'm always up for RP. I'm really looking forward to it; we haven't such a diverse bunch of empires since the Adamant game.brianeyci wrote:If the game's stable for the next few turns, wonder who's in for RP.
"Prodesse Non Nocere."
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
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Luke Starkiller
- Jedi Knight
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- Joined: 2002-08-08 08:55pm
- Location: Ottawa, Canada
I just encountered an annoying bug, invincible Satellites; I've seen this happen twice now in Single Player and I wanted to see if anybody here can duplicate it.
The first time I was attacking an AI planet with a small fleet of Light Cruisers and Frigates. All of the light cruisers and half the frigates had point defence. The second time a fleet of AI ships, all of which had PD and a main weapon capable of engaging satellites attacked one of my planets. In both cases the planet had satellites in cargo at the start of the battle and launched them. The bug is that the satellites appear at the centre of the planet in the combat screen. None of the ships will attack them. When I was attacking I glassed the planet and the satellites that had been launched before combat (and so were in the normal 'orbital' positions) and then my ships, most of which were entirely undamaged, just circled the planet getting shot at until I manually moved them away. Since we can't exert any direct control on combat in our PBW game this could be a problem.
The first time I was attacking an AI planet with a small fleet of Light Cruisers and Frigates. All of the light cruisers and half the frigates had point defence. The second time a fleet of AI ships, all of which had PD and a main weapon capable of engaging satellites attacked one of my planets. In both cases the planet had satellites in cargo at the start of the battle and launched them. The bug is that the satellites appear at the centre of the planet in the combat screen. None of the ships will attack them. When I was attacking I glassed the planet and the satellites that had been launched before combat (and so were in the normal 'orbital' positions) and then my ships, most of which were entirely undamaged, just circled the planet getting shot at until I manually moved them away. Since we can't exert any direct control on combat in our PBW game this could be a problem.
What kind of dark wizard in league with nameless forces of primordial evil ARE you that you can't even make a successful sanity check versus BOREDOM? - Red Mage
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InnocentBystander
- The Russian Circus
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Alan Bolte
- Sith Devotee
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- Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
- Location: Columbus, OH
Damn, verified.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
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There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
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Keevan_Colton
- Emperor's Hand
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- Location: In the Land of Logic and Reason, two doors down from Lilliput and across the road from Atlantis...
- Contact:
Covenant wrote:When do we roll the next turn?
When these two get their moves inInnocentBystander Twilight Imperium Awaiting turn
Battlestarcommander Lemurian Commonwealth Awaiting turn
"Prodesse Non Nocere."
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
"It's all about popularity really, if your invisible friend that tells you to invade places is called Napoleon, you're a loony, if he's called Jesus then you're the president."
"I'd drive more people insane, but I'd have to double back and pick them up first..."
"All it takes for bullshit to thrive is for rational men to do nothing." - Kevin Farrell, B.A. Journalism.
BOTM - EBC - Horseman - G&C - Vampire
The bitch about Tuxedo executing turns manually and no automatic execution is Tuxedo basically has to execute every 48 hours so there's no surprises. There's also no "warning" e-mails. If there's laggers around I wouldn't mind "warning" them for the first 10 turns to nag the last 3 guys or so.
If I'm right, it should be tomorrow, 9:00 PM PDT, turn in by 8:30 PM PDT to guarantee processing. But, I don't like the idea of these beginning turns taking so long. Get your ass up people it takes 20 minutes max to do these first turns.
What we need is an official SDN nag. If random people start nagging the last 3 guys always they could be bombarded by e-mails, but maybe someone with free time or anxious can nag at least these first twenty turns or so.
If I'm right, it should be tomorrow, 9:00 PM PDT, turn in by 8:30 PM PDT to guarantee processing. But, I don't like the idea of these beginning turns taking so long. Get your ass up people it takes 20 minutes max to do these first turns.
What we need is an official SDN nag. If random people start nagging the last 3 guys always they could be bombarded by e-mails, but maybe someone with free time or anxious can nag at least these first twenty turns or so.
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InnocentBystander
- The Russian Circus
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That's what I mostly meant. So... like 9:00 pacific? That's about 7:00 my time. So, around dinner every two days. I want to have a mental image of about which time I need to have my crap in by.brianeyci wrote:If I'm right, it should be tomorrow, 9:00 PM PDT, turn in by 8:30 PM PDT to guarantee processing.