Why Shep hates anime....

[MKSheppard]

Less money? Why the fuck should I care about money when it comes to developing new technology? Plus the Harrier is an archaic piece of shit that has killed and injured more of its own pilots than most other craft in service from mechanical failures.

Still a lot more simpler and reliable than your Veritechs....I shudder to think
of the failure rate on those Veritechs....

[VF5SS]

Whats wrong with that? I actually though it sounded fine. I think its alot better than "Variable fighter" or "Robo-technology" And the I in Veritech isnt meant to be pronounced that strongly as though its was a Y.

Well, its not the proper term anyway. Veritech is a stupid term from Rowboattek Shep, the mechanics never seem to complain about the VFs. There's never been that just broke down in combat. They're extremely tough, despite their complexity.

[consequences]

That's because Veritechs have two basic states, fine, and exploded, unless they belong to a named character. This means the entire maintenance section on a carrier can spend its time on getting half a dozen planes perfect, since all the rest only exist for the enemy ace to improve his kill score with.

[SylasGaunt]

Well Jin-Roh's already been reccomended.

Might like Hellsing.. damn I wish I had a Jackal 13mm...

The obligatory Cowboy Bebop reccomendation of course.

The Vampire Hunter D movies

Blue Gender's one you might want to check out, it has some Mecha but they're all small, not to mention it's a series that is NOT easy on the cast whom it bumps off left and right

The Ruroni Kenshin OVAs are pretty good to

And just for the hell of it I'll throw in a reccomendation for the Harlock Saga and for Queen Emeraldas (with the title character's ship looking something like a giant space zepplin of death)

[SAMAS]

I was watching an episode of Mobile Suit Gundum, and this ship(whitebase?) was attacked by 20 fighters, and they dispatched TWO, which then TRANSFORMED into mecha in MIDAIR

Why the fuck did they last more two seconds against TWENTY ENEMY FIGHTERS?

Yeah. A Harrier pilot would just laugh and ram the nozzles of his AV-8B
forward and VIFF his way around the transforming mecha and fill it with
25mm gunfire

Don't get your series' mixed up.

You forgot about three important things:

The small size of the Core Fighters makes them slightly harder to hit.

The White Base. They also had a big-ass ship providing AA fire.

The fighting was pretty much close quarters, and each Dopp had to worry about the other 19 friendly fighters. Radar was useless, and infrared was also muted.

Trying to attack two small fighters(and Character Shielded at that, plus one was a growing NewType), A bunch of other friendly fighters, and one big-ass ship letting out AA fire the whole time(and is your real target), and it's not that bad a situation.

As for the Valkryie, Try it and the baby will switch to Gerwalk mode, and show a vectored engine does little to being able to just plain reposition your engines. Then say hello to the undeside laser turret.

[VF5SS]

Ugg... calm down mecha boys. The point I was trying to make is that the VF-1 is also an impressive fighter. The fact that it can transform expands its abilities, but does not make up for anything. And no VF pilot is going to forego intial missile barrages just to get in close.

[MKSheppard]

As for the Valkryie, Try it and the baby will switch to Gerwalk mode, and show a vectored engine does little to being able to just plain reposition your engines.

Wow, so you mean it will crash and burn like the V-22 Osprey does when
oil floods back into the engine as it's repositioning itself?

Moving your engine is plain shit. What you want to do is reposition your
THRUST, and the Pegasus' engine's thrust nozzles do that just fine.....

[Sea Skimmer]

Yeah right. Give me the Pegasus engine and I can make the harrier
come to a stop faster than your transforming fighter, and for much
much much less money too....

You would like to think that wouldn't you. Not only can the Veritech hover but it can, flip, manuever, and skydive whilst firing off loads of missiles and its 55mm cannon at multiple targets while its in humanoid form.

Less money? Why the fuck should I care about money when it comes to developing new technology? Plus the Harrier is an archaic piece of shit that has killed and injured more of its own pilots than most other craft in service from mechanical failures.

The fact remains that while by todays standards Veritech fighters are impractical, they would still be far more advanced and more capable than anything we have in the air today.

My what useless abilties. Aginst a competent or real life military such manvueres would serve only to get it very quickly destroyed.

Given an unlimited budget we could build an active and passive stealthed mach six fighter that could destroy targets with a directional EMP cannon or its payload of one hundred G intercontinental range air-to-air missile. All the required technology exists in some formm, we just need to put it together. Of course the whole thing would cost about a hundred billion dollars with matching devolopement costs.

The second you ignore economic realities your admitting the whole thing sucks.

[Yogi]

Quite a few posts ago, I mensioned "Infinite Ryvius" as a possible series to watch with some reservation, since I had not seen the entire thing, and it involves one mech-ish thing. All reservations are now removed. Infinite Ryvius is now officially reccomended.

Think Lord of the Flies in space.

[VF5SS]

As for the Valkryie, Try it and the baby will switch to Gerwalk mode, and show a vectored engine does little to being able to just plain reposition your engines.

Wow, so you mean it will crash and burn like the V-22 Osprey does when
oil floods back into the engine as it's repositioning itself?

Actually, they run on thermo-nuclear turbine engines. They don't crash when they wing their legs forward so they must use a system that can handle it. As I was saying before, the VF-1 is a highly capable fighter. A combination of swing-wings, 2D thrust vectoring nozzles, 55mm gunpod, and forward laser turret (the turret is the head in Battroid mode) makes it a force to be reckoned with.

[Sea Skimmer]

As for the Valkryie, Try it and the baby will switch to Gerwalk mode, and show a vectored engine does little to being able to just plain reposition your engines.

Wow, so you mean it will crash and burn like the V-22 Osprey does when
oil floods back into the engine as it's repositioning itself?

Actually, they run on thermo-nuclear turbine engines. They don't crash when they wing their legs forward so they must use a system that can handle it. As I was saying before, the VF-1 is a highly capable fighter. A combination of swing-wings, 2D thrust vectoring nozzles, 55mm gunpod, and forward laser turret (the turret is the head in Battroid mode) makes it a force to be reckoned with.

Wow, 1960's propulsion technology! Of course it's had an unnecessarily complex extra level added to it that doesn’t make sense like all Anime weapons.

I think I'd take a nice simple Pluto S.L.A.M over a hopelessly complex mecha/fighter that's only effective against equally inept enemies.

[Oberleutnant]

OK a FUCKING GOOD anime movie was the first anime movie I saw, at age 7, still got the VHS tape, still kicks ass, Macross: Do you remember love?

I have to ask you: is this one also dubbed in Swedish like mine? I've owned it since late eighties, I think, and back then it was a weird experience because the movie looked and felt so different from the other children's cartoons I had seen.


Jin-Roh is pretty much the only anime movie I have personally liked, though occasionally in some places I hate the way it attempts to be so philosophical. Still, nothing beats the MG-42 or StG-44 wielding Japanese special forces soldiers, or policemen driving in their Volkswagens...

[phongn]

Wow, so you mean it will crash and burn like the V-22 Osprey does when
oil floods back into the engine as it's repositioning itself?

Actually, they run on thermo-nuclear turbine engines. They don't crash when they wing their legs forward so they must use a system that can handle it. As I was saying before, the VF-1 is a highly capable fighter. A combination of swing-wings, 2D thrust vectoring nozzles, 55mm gunpod, and forward laser turret (the turret is the head in Battroid mode) makes it a force to be reckoned with.

Wow, 1960's propulsion technology! Of course it's had an unnecessarily complex extra level added to it that doesn’t make sense like all Anime weapons.

Um, Sea Skimmer, I'm fairly sure that we didn't have fusion turbines in the 1960s, 1970s or today, for that matter.

[phongn]

Less money? Why the fuck should I care about money when it comes to developing new technology? Plus the Harrier is an archaic piece of shit that has killed and injured more of its own pilots than most other craft in service from mechanical failures.

Still a lot more simpler and reliable than your Veritechs....I shudder to think
of the failure rate on those Veritechs....

Apparently they were quite reliable (at least no less than any modern production fighter) though I still would hate to be the crew chief on those birds. Needlessly expensive as well - it has been speculated that various non-transformable designs were brought in as well to supplement the more-expensive ones (though not completely replace them).

[Sea Skimmer]

Actually, they run on thermo-nuclear turbine engines. They don't crash when they wing their legs forward so they must use a system that can handle it. As I was saying before, the VF-1 is a highly capable fighter. A combination of swing-wings, 2D thrust vectoring nozzles, 55mm gunpod, and forward laser turret (the turret is the head in Battroid mode) makes it a force to be reckoned with.

Wow, 1960's propulsion technology! Of course it's had an unnecessarily complex extra level added to it that doesn’t make sense like all Anime weapons.

Um, Sea Skimmer, I'm fairly sure that we didn't have fusion turbines in the 1960s, 1970s or today, for that matter.

No but we do have fission ramjets which would work just as well. At mach six a turbine is a pointless piece of equipment, if anything it would slow the ingress of more air.

[phongn]

Less money? Why the fuck should I care about money when it comes to developing new technology? Plus the Harrier is an archaic piece of shit that has killed and injured more of its own pilots than most other craft in service from mechanical failures.

You should care because greater unit cost directly translates into a smaller procurement. UN Spacy's decision to go with mecha in and of itself was silly, but a transforming mecha was just plain idiotic. For the price of the VF-1 they probably could have procured a non-transforming version and dedicated ground craft rather than this "jack-of-all-trades" nonsense.

The fact remains that while by todays standards Veritech fighters are impractical, they would still be far more advanced and more capable than anything we have in the air today.

I would take an F/A-22 over the VF-1 any day of the week. The real-life fighter has more thrust, more stealth and better sensors than the Valkyrie, which may have the missile range advantange and appears to have greater endurance.

[phongn]

No but we do have fission ramjets which would work just as well. At mach six a turbine is a pointless piece of equipment, if anything it would slow the ingress of more air.

Said fission ramjet also tended to spew radioactive crap out the back and IIRC could not be throttled as easily as a modern jet engine. And yes, I know the turbine is stupid in the transsonic regime - you go with a scramjet for that.

Plus, said fusion turbine was able to operate in air and space, something that Pluto could not do.

[Sea Skimmer]

No but we do have fission ramjets which would work just as well. At mach six a turbine is a pointless piece of equipment, if anything it would slow the ingress of more air.

Said fission ramjet also tended to spew radioactive crap out the back and IIRC could not be throttled as easily as a modern jet engine. And yes, I know the turbine is stupid in the transsonic regime - you go with a scramjet for that.

Plus, said fusion turbine was able to operate in air and space, something that Pluto could not do.

At that point all science and logic would seem to be suspended. All the engine has to work with is the heat of the reactor in space. I belive Heat will propell you on its own, but only very slowly.

[Singular Quartet]

Less money? Why the fuck should I care about money when it comes to developing new technology? Plus the Harrier is an archaic piece of shit that has killed and injured more of its own pilots than most other craft in service from mechanical failures.

You should care because greater unit cost directly translates into a smaller procurement. UN Spacy's decision to go with mecha in and of itself was silly, but a transforming mecha was just plain idiotic. For the price of the VF-1 they probably could have procured a non-transforming version and dedicated ground craft rather than this "jack-of-all-trades" nonsense.

The fact remains that while by todays standards Veritech fighters are impractical, they would still be far more advanced and more capable than anything we have in the air today.

I would take an F/A-22 over the VF-1 any day of the week. The real-life fighter has more thrust, more stealth and better sensors than the Valkyrie, which may have the missile range advantange and appears to have greater endurance.

Important question: Do you know from whence the term "Macross Missle Massacre" comes from?

[LordShaithis]

Given roughly equal tonnage and tech levels, a tank or plane would always be superior to a mech. Always. The whole concept is a brain bug created by small insecure Japanese animators.

[VF5SS]

Given roughly equal tonnage and tech levels, a tank or plane would always be superior to a mech. Always. The whole concept is a brain bug created by small insecure Japanese animators.

No it is not. Mecha were created initially as Super Heroes. Ordinary guys standing tall in their machines against armies of invincible giant robots that no one could defeat.

[Sea Skimmer]

Given roughly equal tonnage and tech levels, a tank or plane would always be superior to a mech. Always. The whole concept is a brain bug created by small insecure Japanese animators.

No it is not. Mecha were created initially as Super Heroes. Ordinary guys standing tall in their machines against armies of invincible giant robots that no one could defeat.

What's your point? The superiority of the mecha over tanks is a big brain bug that's more loaded with crap then an overflowing public toilet. You've said nothing to change that.

[VF5SS]

I was responding to Prawn's comment on that mechs were just the product of a Japanese guy with a small dick. I know that has little to do with the discussion.

[Icehawk]

What's your point? The superiority of the mecha over tanks is a big brain bug that's more loaded with crap then an overflowing public toilet. You've said nothing to change that.

Sea Skimmer, one thing you seem to be forgetting is that in the Macross storyline. Variable fighters were *only* created as a means to help in combating the giant Zentradi alien soldiers on equal terms whilst also providing a high speed, and highly manueverable fighter with the added capability of flight outside an atmosphere. They were not meant to replace tanks or other heavy armored ground vehicles in their role.

Also remember that it was not Human technology that was used to create the VF fightes. In our world we could not create such things with the materials we have. But in Macross they were working off materials and technology taken directly from the Alien ship.

[Icehawk]

You should care because greater unit cost directly translates into a smaller procurement. UN Spacy's decision to go with mecha in and of itself was silly, but a transforming mecha was just plain idiotic. For the price of the VF-1 they probably could have procured a non-transforming version and dedicated ground craft rather than this "jack-of-all-trades" nonsense.

That maybe true, but the fact is they decided not too, and they were probably better off for that since the incredible abilites of the Variable fighter aided them imensly in combating the Zentradi. It doesn't matter what they *could* have done, what matters is what they did and it saved their asses in the end.

I would take an F/A-22 over the VF-1 any day of the week. The real-life fighter has more thrust, more stealth and better sensors than the Valkyrie, which may have the missile range advantange and appears to have greater endurance.

Where is your proof that the F-22 engines are more powerfull than a VF1's? also, where is your proof that it has more stealth? According to Macross Zero, F-14's were unable to detect the enemy VF that was picking them off on their radar even when it came in close to them. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the F-22 but due to the advanced alien tech and the heavy fusion based turbines incorporated into the VFs I think I would rather take one of them instead.