Jehovah's Witness Smackdown! My first encounter with a JW

[Twoyboy]

A JW has been visiting us every few weeks after my mother in law (who lives with us) had a long conversation with her once. The JW is a recent convert from Thailand who married a JW and now does the door to door thing with him. She has since brought a few others back to speak to my MIL, but I've never been home at the time.

Yesterday, they (the lady and her husband) came around while I was home. My MIL spoke to them first and I came in while he was trying to explain that the Bible wasn't misogynistic. He said there were powerful women in the bible and the books of Ruth and Ester showed this. I couldn't remember the book of Ruth (I've only read bits of the Bible) so I said to him Ester was a lovely book about how if a woman disrepects her husband's authority over her, he'll ditch her and get someone more obedient.

He defended this by saying the culture of the time was that women couldn't speak out and the other wife (can't remember her name) was not just disrespectful to him but disrespectful in general. He said Ester used the means available to her at the time to make social change, and thus, showed how women had been empowered, and are more so in today's culture.

I said this exact issue went to the heart of what I most disliked about the Bible - it doesn't change. Culture has changed to give women equal rights (as they should have) but the Bible sits still, hundreds of years out of date. However nice it's stories are, underlying messages promote sexism, racism, hatred of homosexuals, etc.

He said the Bible, when interpretted in the wrong way can be very dangerous. He then let fly with an anti-semitic diatribe of which I'd never seen the likes of before, where he said Jews interpretted the Bible to suit themselves, but Jesus made the Kingdom of heaven accessible to all... blah blah blah (he did carry on and I can't remember most of it now). He finished by saying he does what he does to lead people to the "true" word of God.

I should have asked why he thought his interpretation was the true one but I was in a hurry to get rid of him. I said that he and I had the same aim when talking to those of (other) faiths, to show that interpreting their holy scriptures can lead to dangerous consequences. But I took the point of view that no religions were beyond interpretation and all morals could be derived from a humanistic viewpoint.

He made some excuses to leave (hopefully sensing I wanted him to) but before he left made a comment about growing up in (what was apparently) Charles Darwin's home town in Wales and how he never believed evolution and blah blah blah. I know MUCH more about evolution that religion so I told him he was about to open up a can of worms. So he left.

So that was my very first encounter arguing religion with a door-to-door salesman. I thought it went pretty well, but what do you guys think? Besides boning up on my scriptures, what could I have done better?

Apologies in advance if I don't check back very often. My wife's about to pop with our second child, and I'm always doing other stuff. Like currently debating a guy on another forum about how morality does not have to stem from God.

Sigh.

[General Zod]

You should have answered the door naked.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Utsanomiko had a brilliant idea.

You get one of their pamphlets, and then go through it with red ink making marks like a high school teacher, noting all the lies and fallacies. Then hand it back to them when they return.

[General Zod]

Utsanomiko had a brilliant idea.

You get one of their pamphlets, and then go through it with red ink making marks like a high school teacher, noting all the lies and fallacies. Then hand it back to them when they return.

Wouldn't that require highlighting pretty much the entire thing?

[Larz]

Utsanomiko had a brilliant idea.

You get one of their pamphlets, and then go through it with red ink making marks like a high school teacher, noting all the lies and fallacies. Then hand it back to them when they return.

Wouldn't that require highlighting pretty much the entire thing?

The scriptures runith over with blood and violence... why shouldn't their pamphlet be just a little more like the book they praise?

[wolveraptor]

This:

He said the Bible, when interpretted in the wrong way can be very dangerous. He then let fly with an anti-semitic diatribe...

is the part where you made your mistake. You let him change the subject, thus avoiding the inevitable conclusion of what you said. That's fine when you have plenty of time to grill him all over the place, but if you want him to hear your point and leave, cut him off and ask what that has to do with the issue at hand.

[Twoyboy]

This:

He said the Bible, when interpretted in the wrong way can be very dangerous. He then let fly with an anti-semitic diatribe...

is the part where you made your mistake. You let him change the subject, thus avoiding the inevitable conclusion of what you said. That's fine when you have plenty of time to grill him all over the place, but if you want him to hear your point and leave, cut him off and ask what that has to do with the issue at hand.

Yeah, if anything I was a bit polite. Always let him finish because I find it difficult to interrupt. Damn manners, always getting in the way. I have to learn how to cut people off who are bullshitting, because if they're impolite enough to come to my home and try to convert me, there's really no reason for me not to return the favour.

[General Zod]

This:

He said the Bible, when interpretted in the wrong way can be very dangerous. He then let fly with an anti-semitic diatribe...

is the part where you made your mistake. You let him change the subject, thus avoiding the inevitable conclusion of what you said. That's fine when you have plenty of time to grill him all over the place, but if you want him to hear your point and leave, cut him off and ask what that has to do with the issue at hand.

Yeah, if anything I was a bit polite. Always let him finish because I find it difficult to interrupt. Damn manners, always getting in the way. I have to learn how to cut people off who are bullshitting, because if they're impolite enough to come to my home and try to convert me, there's really no reason for me not to return the favour.

Just remember to answer the door naked next time and they'll be so dumbfounded they'll find it hard to get a word in with you.

[Elaro]

You get one of their pamphlets, and then go through it with red ink making marks like a high school teacher, noting all the lies and fallacies. Then hand it back to them when they return.

I tried doing that with one of their magazines (specifically, the Creation vs. Evolution one). It broke my brain.

[Feil]

Just remember to answer the door naked next time and they'll be so dumbfounded they'll find it hard to get a word in with you.

And then they'll have you arrested for sexual harassment and/or indecent exposure, and you'll be lucky to avoid getting your name on the sex offenders registry, which will follow you for the rest of your life. Really good idea!

[General Zod]

Just remember to answer the door naked next time and they'll be so dumbfounded they'll find it hard to get a word in with you.

And then they'll have you arrested for sexual harassment and/or indecent exposure, and you'll be lucky to avoid getting your name on the sex offenders registry, which will follow you for the rest of your life. Really good idea!

Good thing most civilized states recognize that people do in fact have the right to be naked in their own home.

[CJvR]

My father use to frighten them by saying he is a pagan who worships Odin and Tor. Their confusion is most amusing to watch.

[Aaron]

I really don't know how you guys have the patience to deal with these fools. I just open the door and they get two seconds into their speech or I see the Bible and I say "no" and shut the door in their face. Either I have a really low tolerance level for bullshit or it's the PTSD but I can't stand even talking to them for ten seconds.

[Darth Servo]

He said there were powerful women in the bible and the books of Ruth and Ester showed this.

He's full of shit. Ruth wasn't "powerful" at all. All she did was join the Jewish religion and win a second husband. I guess to a fundie, joining the "right" religion constitutes "powerful".

I couldn't remember the book of Ruth (I've only read bits of the Bible) so I said to him Ester was a lovely book about how if a woman disrepects her husband's authority over her, he'll ditch her and get someone more obedient.

He defended this by saying the culture of the time was that women couldn't speak out and the other wife (can't remember her name) was not just disrespectful to him but disrespectful in general. He said Ester used the means available to her at the time to make social change, and thus, showed how women had been empowered, and are more so in today's culture.

Merely repeating the problem doesn't justify it.

He said the Bible, when interpretted in the wrong way can be very dangerous.

Thats when you say, "Exactly, thats my whole point, that literally reading the thing is dangerous. Concession accepted"

He then let fly with an anti-semitic diatribe of which I'd never seen the likes of before, where he said Jews interpretted the Bible to suit themselves, but Jesus made the Kingdom of heaven accessible to all... blah blah blah (he did carry on and I can't remember most of it now).

Is that why Peter and company did NOT start preaching to anyone but Jews until long after Jesus had left? Peter had to have a dream/vision regarding the issue (see Acts 10) and even then, the 1st century church leaders were still hesitant on the issue and focused their efforts primarily on the Jews.

He finished by saying he does what he does to lead people to the "true" word of God.

Pure arrogance to insist that they know best and what God "really" meant.

before he left made a comment about growing up in (what was apparently) Charles Darwin's home town in Wales and how he never believed evolution and blah blah blah.

So he just admitted he is a brainwashed moron. $20 says he doesn't know the first thing about REAL evolution and has only listened to creationist lies on the matter.

[Darth Wong]

He said there were powerful women in the bible and the books of Ruth and Ester showed this.

He's full of shit. Ruth wasn't "powerful" at all. All she did was join the Jewish religion and win a second husband. I guess to a fundie, joining the "right" religion constitutes "powerful".

It's better than that. She ingratiated herself to her new husband by being subservient to him, sleeping at the foot of his bed, and doing household work for him. Anyone who cites the Book of Ruth as a feminist story is an idiot or a liar.

[Enforcer Talen]

IIRC, a lot of that book was metaphor for Ruth giving head to see if she was worthy of staying around.

Been a while since I read it tho.

[OmegaGuy]

Luckily I live on top of a huge hill so that you have to walk 100 feet up at a 45 degree angle to reach my front door. I don't get many of these pests.

[General Zod]

Luckily I live on top of a huge hill so that you have to walk 100 feet up at a 45 degree angle to reach my front door. I don't get many of these pests.

In my case the apartment building requires a code to even get inside. So I don't have to deal with any of them.