Space Empires V PBW game?

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-06-02 02:59am

I have a rather unique error.

My shipyards are building troops. Which is odd, since I told them to make colonizers. Odder still, they're making them for SOME OTHER RACE. Cuz my race doesn't have these kinds of troops.

:/

Like, it's building troops with a troop picture I can't access (my small troops are Hiigaran turrets, these are some kind of mecha named Arkhangelsk II) and they have higher levels of tech in some areas, and lower in others, than I do. They're also not on my build list, so I can't even make more of these if I want. It's not like the AI took my turn, as they're not on my list of units.

Very bizzare, no?

I don't know what to say! If nobody wants to roll back the turn, can I at least deconstruct the fuckers for some tech? If the Evil Lord Zarkon is producing rebel troops to attack my world, then I should be allowed to profit from his evil genius. He DID cancel the colonizer build order on three shipyards.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 03:20am

I lost 3 colonizers the other turn but I thought it was a bug on my end.

That is wierd shit, can you get someone else to confirm it on someone else's installation of sev?

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-06-02 03:24am

brianeyci wrote:I lost 3 colonizers the other turn but I thought it was a bug on my end.

That is wierd shit, can you get someone else to confirm it on someone else's installation of sev?

Probably. I redownloaded the turn, and the bug is still there. Kinda frustrating. I wanted to build 5 colonizers, instead I'm making five retarded little mecha, from three different yards. How moronic.

Date set for when I made then was, like, 0.0

Faaaantastic. Totally a bug.

==edit==

I'm asking Tux if he can redo the turn and make it available to me. It shouldn't need anyone else to download it. It fucked with some other queues. This is really annoying!

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 08:20am

If he redoes your turn on its own and you do your turn, it might let only your turn in and nobody else's. People better keep a backup of the originally processed turn and whatever turn Tuxedo makes, especially Tuxedo, in case when he processes it gives the error that everybody but player x x being Covenant hasn't submitted their turn because the plr file isn't compatible with the newly created turn. He can't simply remake your turn. For example, if someone has a sensor ship looking at your planet this turn and there's no ship and tuxedo makes a new turn and suddenly you've got a ship, well then there's a problem when it comes to turn processing.

The easiest way to do it is for everybody to redownload the turn unfortunately. Or for you to eat your loss. Maybe there can be some kind of compromise. It wouldn't be fair to give you a small shield generator and 150k points of research for example, but I wouldn't give a shit if it gave you a couple turns of small ordnance or small weapons. But most likely it will be unfair if you analyze. Anything you analyze, if it opens up any new theoretical areas or saves you more than 20k research points would probably be unfair.

I'm also worried about the game being permanently bugged or possibly dead or out of sync for some innane reason. I read about that happening to some really big games and when it happens there's nothing to do but restart. Hopefully that's not the case here.

EDIT: Looks like the new version of balance mod is up. We'll see the next turn whether it breaks anybody's saved game. And looks like he fixed the mine bug. I'm downloading it now.

EDIT2: Everybody should play this current turn with 1.07, downloadable here.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2007-06-02 10:40am

That bug happened to me before. I just cleared out the queue and replaced it with the stuff I wanted to build. Doesn't seem to have broken anything. I don't think you can analyze troops for tech, only ships and bases.

EDIT: We'll run the next turn with 1.07. If it breaks, we'll just go back to 1.06.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2007-06-02 10:52am

Turn rechurned. Only two people had submitted, and probably used 1.06 to submit, so no reason not to.

Due date is still the same.

Before submitting this turn, download vesion 1.07 of the Balance Mod.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-02 01:05pm

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-02 01:13pm

Well fuck, this patch is no good. I've got fighters with small L1 DUCs that I no longer have the technology for.

Luke Starkiller · Post by **Luke Starkiller** » 2007-06-02 01:17pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Well fuck, this patch is no good. I've got fighters with small L1 DUCs that I no longer have the technology for.

How does that work? Everybody is supposed to get Small Weapons as a default Tech now.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 01:19pm

Yeah I was afraid of that happening.

What exactly do you mean. From the update either he took out all races start with level one in smaller weapons or he gave it to everybody. You saying you wasted research, or you have to do more? If you have to do more I don't see the problem. If you wasted it's probably just a matter of getting the right cross-tech, in other words more smaller weapons before small weapons (the two are different.)

It's only if you lost an entire research line that I'd consider to be a problem, and if he used the same tech areas to make the mods compatible that shouldn't happen. He had to have only changed the requirements, so smaller weapons are more expensive now.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2007-06-02 02:20pm

Well. After reloading what I did in the last turn with the new patch, I don't see any errors. Interesting that you can sacrafice people for organics. Soylent Green is people?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-02 02:22pm

No. I am saying that with 1.06 I could use L1 ducs for fighters. With 1.07 I cannot. This is my issue. Something fundamental changed, removing my ability to put guns on fighters.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 02:29pm

Can anybody else verify that they can't use L1 DUC on fighters?

What level of small weapons/smaller weapons/duc do you have right now (if you want to say?)

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-02 02:30pm

I have not researched these techs, as they are default techs that you start with, hence why I was building ships with them for the last few turns.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 02:47pm

Okay it's not a big deal.

Sorry I hate to break it to you but DUC1 on fighters and warships blows donkey balls. I'm already immune to it with emissive armor. I suggest all people do not make warships until they have 5 in a weapon. It only goes up to 11, but going up to 5 only takes a few turns (diminishing returns after 5 because of high research cost). If people are considering making frigates (or are making frigates or rushing), know this: CSM has 50% defense bonus, and unless you can shoot them down your DUC frigates will die a bloody death. You need enough combat sensor and point-defense, preferably point-defense 6 for the flak and bomblet missiles, so you can shoot down missiles. Otherwise a frigate with CSM1 will beat your DUC5 by just shooting at max range and running like a cunt.

In short you need at least PD6 and CSM5/DUC5 for a half decent warship. Or else they will die to turn0 fighters and turn0 frigates. What an embarassment that is, your turn10 frigate dying to a turn0, so don't let it happen man

.

Kingside_Bishop · Post by **Kingside_Bishop** » 2007-06-02 03:49pm

Well, I downloaded the new Balance Mod, and played my turn without any hitch. Didn't notice any bugs at all. But, I checked on Small Depleted Uranium Cannons -- it says they require tech level 1 in Small Weapons and Projectile Weapons. They only used to require Projectile Weapons, I think, because I can remember putting them on troops without ever having researched Small Weapons.

So, that's probably it, I guess.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 04:07pm

IB, if you really want your DUC1 back, research smaller weapons for 10k a piece. According to the Balance Mod tech chart, smaller weapons is supposed to be a prerequisite for small weapons anyway. For example for small DUC1 you needed smaller weapons 1 and DUC1. For small DUC2 you needed smaller weapons 2 and DUC3. So it's not a big deal, it looks like a bug fix more than anything.

If you were getting a free ride before now it's over

.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-02 05:11pm

So you start with the technology to build fighters but not to arm them? Thats retarded.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 05:17pm

Well the first airplanes weren't armed. Plus there's ramming speed!

Besides, it might be retarded, but what's more retarded is dropping mines in the middle of combat and having dreadnaughts die to small transport. So going back to 1.06 I would rather not do.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2007-06-02 05:40pm

In 1.07 all races start with 1 level in Small Weapons. Because we started with 1.06, we didn't. That's why.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-02 08:20pm

For all the people wheeling and dealing and scheming and so on, in my opinion nobody should make an ooc deal. Everything should be handled ic, and if you don't want to RP every single deal just say it's ic and talk like normal. I've already gotten several pms demanding my intentions, and I've made it a policy not to make any ooc promises ever this game.

Remember B5.

In fact, a game ruling should be that all deals and promises should be treated as ic, and deal and listen at your own risk.

ColonialAdmiral · Post by **ColonialAdmiral** » 2007-06-02 11:37pm

Well I'm back.
*Goes to check status of empire*

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-06-03 04:35pm

brianeyci wrote:For all the people wheeling and dealing and scheming and so on, in my opinion nobody should make an ooc deal. Everything should be handled ic, and if you don't want to RP every single deal just say it's ic and talk like normal. I've already gotten several pms demanding my intentions, and I've made it a policy not to make any ooc promises ever this game.

Remember B5.

In fact, a game ruling should be that all deals and promises should be treated as ic, and deal and listen at your own risk.

We also need all these people to keep up with the RP then, as well as find IC reasons for their actions that they can also justify to other people. The Federation, for example, might be able to be taken over by insane dictactor people during the Dominion wars because of the changling paranoia, but if they're surrounded by relatively friendly allies I wouldn't expect them to launch an attack out of nowhere or justify their leaders acting like autocratic crazies. I'd expect those Captains, quite frankly, to ignore those orders in true Star Trek form. Just like I wouldn't expect the Romulans to rush to bringing medical aid, or to be eager to sign trade agreements.

For some people without an established RP base, it may be harder to tell them they're acting out of character, but we need to ESTABLISH that character first, in RP. I'm all for an RP game, but we need to make it consistant.

I just don't want people to nix player to player talking, a fairly heavy restriction, without keeping the IC conversation to a high standard. If we want it to be like B5, then let's do that, but people will also need to remember that it's going to be a lot harder to act like an violent warmonger if you can't just explain it as "playing the game."

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-03 04:50pm

Forget B5, I forgot not everybody played last game and remembered what happened.

We've got people with non-established empires. The thing is most people have already said that they'll do RP so I'll take it at their word.

The main thing I want to avoid is drama. Player A agreeing to something with Player B, then Player B later breaking it. Player A crying foul. What I say is deal at your own risk. Game mechanics do not support promises. Actually they do--a person can demand star charts and watch the other player's deployments. That's probably the most surefire way. Game mechanics also support things like don't bomb planets, don't use superweapons, so you can deal with those that way too. But if a player makes a deal not supported by game mechanics... say trade a planet for an ambigious favor later and the person cops out... oh well.

I don't really care if people play in-character to be honest. It's a personal choice and restricting what people can do or say is stupid. Anything that can't be supported by game mechanics should be seriously considered before being made a rule. Only bugs and cheats and overpowered stuff should be rules, no general RP rule.

For example, my Federation is a remake of the old Federation after a recovery from a drastic economic upheaval hundreds of years later. I don't feel bound by shit. Sure I'll do certain things, but my characters my story. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-06-03 05:53pm

Then really, what's the point of asking this to be an RP game? Isn't it just as much of an RP game as our ST:mod one, with an RP thread but absolutely no connection between that and the real game? If we can't ask people to be bound by their RP then how can we expect anyone to ever act IC at all?

And if we can't expect people to act IC, how can we not use OOC deals as the way to discuss things? If we can't discuss OOCly, and people do not honor anything ICly, then it's really just needless anarchy. We should be allowed to have OOC dealings, and if people screw you over OOCly, then they're a dick in an OOC sense. If you don't want to make those deals, then you don't have to, but I don't think that should stop me from making them with people if I want to.

I'm not worried as much about promises, which I think is just your concern, as I am about repurcussions. If nobody agrees to act IC, then really, it's just an OOC non-RP game and we should dispense with the talk of trying to keep it IC. You can't have it both ways. If this is RP based, then I want there to be IC restrictons on behavior, and more importantly, consequences. If nobody wants to be held accountable for the way they act, then we can't very well ask this to be IC.

To clarify, all I want is for things to be consistant. If you want to RP the federation as facists, that's fine. I just want you to expect to be treated the way we'd treat a facist federation. I don't want people to play a 'good guy' only until they need to be evil, and then expect that to go over no problems. If you're the evil Paralell Federation from Mirror Mirror then your captains wouldn't resist an order to purge a world, but if you ordered Picard to do it, I know he would. Just be consistant.