Dr. Who; 29/09; "The Family of Blood" (Spoilers)

[Big Orange]

Just few hours until the concluding episode of this so-far excellent two parter that has the memory rubbed and bio-fixed Doctor hiding out in Edwardian England in a vain attempt to escape ruthless alien bounty hunters. It was a pretty bad cliff hanger last week when those aliens were holding him at gunpoint and holding two of his friends hostage; how the heck is the Doctor going to get out this one when he doesn't know he's the Doctor and is not even biologically Gallifreyian?

PS: Have I got thread title and voting system right this time?

[Crazedwraith]

Pretty good but over done in places. Especially the world war one stuff. Blackadder did it better. ANyone else think Hutichinson an the kid should have bought it emmediately after dodging the first bomb?

Thank you, doctor! -bang!-

[NecronLord]

I choose to assume Hutchinson and the kid were running away from the Germans in that scene.

Anyway... Since when did the Doctor torture his defeated enemies with eternal sensory deprivation?

[Lost Soal]

I choose to assume Hutchinson and the kid were running away from the Germans in that scene.

Anyway... Since when did the Doctor torture his defeated enemies with eternal sensory deprivation?

I really liked that part. We've seen hints throughout about how coldhearted he can be when lives are lost plus the description hutchensen gave him.

This is the man who let Cassandra burst from the heat in The End Of The World, tried to torture to death what he thought was the last DALEK and of course wiped out both the DALEKS and his own people in order to end the Time War.

[Zac Naloen]

I choose to assume Hutchinson and the kid were running away from the Germans in that scene.

Anyway... Since when did the Doctor torture his defeated enemies with eternal sensory deprivation?

Something about that whole montage seemed very... weird.

[El Moose Monstero]

Yes, I thought that was extreme - but then again, he wiped out an entire race in the christmas special of this year, maybe the new willingness to come down hard on enemies is something to do with the loss of Rose?

I was expecting there to be some tie in to Mr Saxon, or at the least, have a scene with the diary sitting in some archive somewhere; before I remembered the boy's name as I'd forgotten it in the last scene, I'd half expected him to turn out to be Saxon. But then I'm perhaps not as spoiled as others, so I might be missing something.

Enjoyed it though, but the alien acting pissed me off. It seems they were learning from the data school of neck movements and the you-only-live-twice blofeld school of voice acting.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Anyway... Since when did the Doctor torture his defeated enemies with eternal sensory deprivation?

Since Doomsday? That's pretty much what being banished into the Void means as far as I can tell. It's not Daleks or Cybermen will suffocate or anything like that. Daleks, for one, seem to be able to last for a very, very long time without refuelling or anything.

[Crazedwraith]

Anyway... Since when did the Doctor torture his defeated enemies with eternal sensory deprivation?

Since Doomsday? That's pretty much what being banished into the Void means as far as I can tell. It's not Daleks or Cybermen will suffocate or anything like that. Daleks, for one, seem to be able to last for a very, very long time without refuelling or anything.

That, at least, was a byproduct of saving the World from this. This episode however was: I've defeated you. Now I'm going to punish you for all eternity just becuase I can.

All so the Doctor must know by now Martha fancies him and yet... Was it just me or did he seem to imply to the Matron that he'd so ditch Martha in a second if she'd hook up with him? He doesn't seem to care about Martha in the slightest.

[Crazy_Vasey]

That, at least, was a byproduct of saving the World from this. This episode however was: I've defeated you. Now I'm going to punish you for all eternity just becuase I can.

Not gonna argue there. This was a particularly nasty bit of revenge.

[NecronLord]

I really liked that part. We've seen hints throughout about how coldhearted he can be when lives are lost plus the description hutchensen gave him.

This is the man who let Cassandra burst from the heat in The End Of The World,

Nothing. Absolutely nothing, in comparison. And that's discounting that she survived.

tried to torture to death what he thought was the last DALEK and of course wiped out both the DALEKS and his own people in order to end the Time War.

Why are you capitalising 'dalek'? What's more, again, kill not delibrately render immortal and leave imprisoned forever. That's the morality of Jehovah.

Since Doomsday? That's pretty much what being banished into the Void means as far as I can tell. It's not Daleks or Cybermen will suffocate or anything like that. Daleks, for one, seem to be able to last for a very, very long time without refuelling or anything.

Err, yes they will. Cybermen have never been immune to suffocation - they've been able to move through space briefly in The Wheel in Space, under the influence of some gravitational field between two ships, but the fact that clogging their cyber-lungs up with gold suffocates them indicates that they generally need air. While cybusmen are radically different, there's nothing that indicates that they are capable of living forever without air when their cousins could not. And all daleks have, at the very least, a means to kill themselves.

What's more, he didn't have another option there. He didn't deliberately decide to imprison them when he could have just let them die, as he could have here. Same with the Racnoss (and of course, he did offer them the chance to survive, even if dodgily) - no other option presented itself - and the dalek in Dalek, he was taking the best option to kill it he was able to. He didn't grab Simmons' drill and start torturing it out of spite.

[Lord Woodlouse]

Meh, I loved it. I like seeing the Doctor's darker side.

[NecronLord]

All so the Doctor must know by now Martha fancies him and yet... Was it just me or did he seem to imply to the Matron that he'd so ditch Martha in a second if she'd hook up with him? He doesn't seem to care about Martha in the slightest.

Either he's into threesomes, or he just doesn't think of Martha that way.

[NecronLord]

Meh, I loved it. I like seeing the Doctor's darker side.

Correction: His absolutely black, sadistic, completely evil, Valeyard side.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Err, yes they will. Cybermen have never been immune to suffocation - they've been able to move through space briefly in The Wheel in Space, under the influence of some gravitational field between two ships, but the fact that clogging their cyber-lungs up with gold suffocates them indicates that they generally need air. While cybusmen are radically different, there's nothing that indicates that they are capable of living forever without air when their cousins could not. And all daleks have, at the very least, a means to kill themselves.

Well, I assumed the new Cybermen don't need air as they don't seem to transfer the respiratory system over at all. Far as I could tell, they were just transferring the brain and the nervous system over into the pre-made shell. I expect that'd be different for the ones that were transformed piecemeal, as in the Torchwood episode, though.

Fair enough on the Daleks. I just plain old forgot to take the ability to suicide into account.

[NecronLord]

Well, I assumed the new Cybermen don't need air as they don't seem to transfer the respiratory system over at all.

Nor did the old ones. They outright say they're just brains in The Tenth Planet. The cyber-lungs that get clogged by gold dust are some mechanical devices.

[Crazedwraith]

All so the Doctor must know by now Martha fancies him and yet... Was it just me or did he seem to imply to the Matron that he'd so ditch Martha in a second if she'd hook up with him? He doesn't seem to care about Martha in the slightest.

Either he's into threesomes, or he just doesn't think of Martha that way.

... Not entirely what I meant. It just seemed like if the Matron was gonna tag along the first stop would be the 2007 to give Martha the boot out the door. So long and don't let the door smack you on the arse on your way out.

[Lost Soal]

Not neccessarily, it wouldn't be the first time he'd had multiple companions.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Nor did the old ones. They outright say they're just brains in The Tenth Planet. The cyber-lungs that get clogged by gold dust are some mechanical devices.

Fair enough. Seems I need to go back and rewatch some of the old Who.

[NecronLord]

Humm. I wonder if they're going to keep on being 'dark' like this in forthcoming episodes; The measured sadism of it turned this into a 4, rather than 5, for me

[Dartzap]

Really liked it, especially at the War Memorial in the end, although I thought the old boy (hur hur) would have had an heart attack at seeing some one appear in front of him, having not changed (other than one's clothing) from when he last saw 'em ninety odd years ago.

Blackadder did it better

True, but that was genuinely designed to shock people into realising what the horror of the Trench charge was. of course they ruined that by brining Eddie and Balders back for Back and Fourth[/ i]

[NecronLord]

Fair enough. Seems I need to go back and rewatch some of the old Who.

You're probably thinking of Attack of the Cybermen where they show various characters with cybernetic augments, part way through transformation. The new cybernisation process is a lot more brutal and direct, ripping the brain out and plunking it in a shell, the old cybermen appeared to start with limbs, and work their way in until only the brain was left.

[NecronLord]

Really liked it, especially at the War Memorial in the end, although I thought the old boy (hur hur) would have had an heart attack at seeing some one appear in front of him, having not changed (other than one's clothing) from when he last saw 'em ninety odd years ago.

Maybe he sees them all the time.

[Lost Soal]

Really liked it, especially at the War Memorial in the end, although I thought the old boy (hur hur) would have had an heart attack at seeing some one appear in front of him, having not changed (other than one's clothing) from when he last saw 'em ninety odd years ago.

He knew he was a time travellor, it wouldn't be that much of a surprise to see they haven't aged in probably one day

[NecronLord]

Paul Cornell (I think) in commentry: "I don't think they're forever, I don't think he's chosen cruel and unusual punishments that last an eternity, just a very, very long time, because they've done something terrible to him, something that no-one else has ever done."

[Lord Woodlouse]

Meh, I loved it. I like seeing the Doctor's darker side.

Correction: His absolutely black, sadistic, completely evil, Valeyard side.

Completely evil? I'd not go that far. There was a certain justice in what he did, for all it was much worse than we normally see him. But I felt it was something the Doctor could very well do if angered enough.

Besides anything else, who knows if these creatures are as vulnerable to sensory deprivation in the same way a human is?