Which factions can defeat star wars universe EASILY?

[Teleros]

What about the tyranids of 40,000k warhammer they have vastly greater numbers than the zerg I suppose they could win (keep in mind I have not seen tons of diffrent kinds of sci-fi)

Well the Tyranids have the numbers, but I think they'd get a hammering in space, particularly given superior Star Wars speeds and so on. In addition, planetary shields could well stop them landing any of the smaller gribblies.

[The Grim Squeaker]

What about the tyranids of 40,000k warhammer they have vastly greater numbers than the zerg I suppose they could win (keep in mind I have not seen tons of diffrent kinds of sci-fi)

Well the Tyranids have the numbers, but I think they'd get a hammering in space, particularly given superior Star Wars speeds and so on. In addition, planetary shields could well stop them landing any of the smaller gribblies.

Possible, but the lack of countermeasures needed for Genestealers combined with the abundance of fast civilian FTL travel would cause horrifying levels of Gene-stealer cults across the galaxy.

Nids range from 1/3-1/12 in terms of Nid ships needed to destroy a IoM ship of equal "class" (That is between 3:1 to 12:1 odds), placing them at a distinct disadvantage against SW ships. Then again considering that the Vong with a far smaller fleet, almost no reproductive ability and utterly retarded leadership managed to crush the NR it is possible (Though as was stated the Empire would have crushed the Vong).

Over-all the full rumoured "Galaxy's worth of Bio-mass" Tyranid race would drown the SW Galaxy with ease while a single Hive fleet would not be sufficient though it might be in the long term due to the spread of genestealers and the erosion of the Empire's population base (Genestealers and Magi on Coruscant, now theres a scary thought especially with Palpatine's tendancy to stick his mind where it shouldn't be )

[NecronLord]

There isn't much of a lack of countermeasures, you know. The Galactic Empire seems to have comprehensive monitoring, at least in the form of roving droids to pick up subversive activity. They appear in the SE of ANH and can even be found in sewers in Jedi Knight.

And that's without touching Mussolinified core worlds.

[The Grim Squeaker]

There isn't much of a lack of countermeasures, you know. The Galactic Empire seems to have comprehensive monitoring, at least in the form of roving droids to pick up subversive activity.

On the outer rim? In Tatooine? In the Corporate sector? etc'

They didn't detect the Yuuzhan Vhong (Who were mucking about even during the OR), and scanning of planets for the rebels on a large scale only started after ANH, and is hardly comparable to a minor religous cult on a random world.
Scanning for life=!scanning for an unknown genetic sequence for the reason.

They appear in the SE of ANH and can even be found in sewers in Jedi Knight.

And Jedi knight usually had you infiltrating hot-spots, after probe-droids were found to be useful as cheap guard-units.

And that's without touching Mussolinified core worlds.

Do you have any quotes to show that they surpass a typical hive-world by a large degree and uniformly?
What with the fact that even at the height of the empire, with Coruscant at its most policed, Stormtroopers STILL kept the fuck out of the lower levels (Which aren't as bad or anywhere near as relatively populated as the lower levels of most hives, despite the higher "top-side" population) I find the chances for success in that field doubtful.

[NecronLord]

On the outer rim? In Tatooine? In the Corporate sector? etc'

*Smack* Yes on Tatooine, what other normal planets do they visit in ANH? They're seen in ANH SE in Mos Eisley.

They didn't detect the Yuuzhan Vhong (Who were mucking about even during the OR),

I am minimally familiar with the Yucky Wrong. I would like to stay that way.

and scanning of planets for the rebels on a large scale only started after ANH, and is hardly comparable to a minor religous cult on a random world.
Scanning for life=!scanning for an unknown genetic sequence for the reason.

Scanning for rebels only started after ANH? Where's that from? It sounds... oh, rediculous, given the guff about Palpatine continiuing his military build up under the age old 'There's Seperatists under every bed' routine from RotS ICS.

And Jedi knight usually had you infiltrating hot-spots, after probe-droids were found to be useful as cheap guard-units.

These are not probe droids. I'm talking about the Imperial Mark Four sentry droid. See here - according to the star wars wiki, these were deployed from the Devastator, so perhaps they're not as widespread as they seem.

Do you have any quotes to show that they surpass a typical hive-world by a large degree and uniformly?

I direct you to Publius' page on them. They would surpass an Imperium of Man hive world by default, by having a droid underclass instead of human for many tasks, having far faster communications, and far faster response from the authorities.

What with the fact that even at the height of the empire, with Coruscant at its most policed, Stormtroopers STILL kept the fuck out of the lower levels (Which aren't as bad or anywhere near as relatively populated as the lower levels of most hives, despite the higher "top-side" population) I find the chances for success in that field doubtful.

One - You don't understand Genestealers.
Two - You ignore that the Palpatineist state also controlled the crime on Coruscant, controlling the lower levels by default. Unless you mean the even more extreme undercity cliche of 'Cthons' and so forth.

Now, back to number one - Genestealers don't go for the undercity. That's not what they're about, and they consider it a waste of effort. Witness the purging of Stalinvast in Inquisitor/Draco, the only instance I'm aware of, of a hive world being infested by 'stealers. They don't bother to touch the undercity. They, as in every other instance, go for the working class.

Genestealers are not unintelligent. They work to maximise their potential as a fifth column when the 'nids arrive. They don't just infect people willy-nilly, they aim to control religious and planetary institutions. They are particularly fond of infesting the Planetary Defence Forces, in order that they can rapidly aquire weapons for defence.

They're not interested in picking on the huddled masses in the depths of the city - that's what rippers are for - they're interested in recruiting people who will be useful to them.


Now, Star Wars has vastly better communications, both internally within planets and without, considerably more widespread diagnostic technology, better conditions almost universally on its worlds, and its own 'above the law' Inquisition (or the rather more watered down Jedi Knights, in the Republican era). There's no justification for saying it would be more easily infiltrated by genestealers, save that it has ubiquitous faster-than-light travel.

How do you possibly think they could do worse than the Imperium of Man, who may take up to several decades to respond to an uprising on a world, even one of overtly chaotic nature?

[Ghost Rider]

Just as a point, because .303 brought it up. The NR not detecting the Vong is essentially a huge point against the NR, not the GE. When the Vong themselves tell us that the reason they chose the NR was because the Empire would not only have kicked their ass, but never have let them establish the much needed foothold, because of military and organizational differences. Saying that it would be the same scenario is gross understatement.

Back to the debate of Tyranids versus Galactic Empire.

[NecronLord]

The key thing, I think, in this kind of 'chaos/genestealer cults vs the Empire' discussion is that the Empire shares almost every advantage the Imperium of Man has; save restricted interstellar travel and super-elite troops in the style of space marines (as the Emperor cancelled the Dark Trooper project after Katarn did a number on it, though presumably it could be ressurected). It even has a full-on Inquisition ready to roll, with some seriously powerful inquisitors in it (Jerec managing to disable a massive cargo hauler with the force in the Jedi Knight cutscenes springs to mind). Add onto that that the Galactic Empire has much better reaction times and communications, and I can't see them doing any worse than the Imperium of Man does.

[fusion]

Just a question, isn't this sticky for races that can easily defeat the Empire?

If so wouldn't races like the Tyranids won't go here because they might beat the empire but it would not do it easily.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Just a question, isn't this sticky for races that can easily defeat the Empire?

If so wouldn't races like the Tyranids won't go here because they might beat the empire but it would not do it easily.

I suppose so. My top choices would be the Culture (naturally) and the Inhibitors, both races show powers or technological advantages to make beating the Empire at its height quite trivial, whether they wish to or not.

No doubt there are many more species out there that can get in a good bloody fight with the Empire, but not have more than a 50/50 chance of coming out on top, depending on various conditions.

[Miranda Keyes]

The Forerunner of Halo could whip the Empire and possibly make them cry in the process (all without breaking a sweat). How do I reach this conclusion?

1. The Forerunner have a weapon vastly superior to any Death Star: Halo. Whereas the Death Star may be able to take down a planet, Halo covers 250,000 light years. The fleet would never get close.

2. The Forerunner capabilities have not been fully assessed (See Ghosts of Onyx, among others). Even if their full limits haven't been shown yet, and therefore cannot be assessed as canon, it has been said they have not reached full potential yet.

3. The Forerunner "beat" the Flood. And the Flood can also be shown to beat the Empire. (Empire lands, conquering the puny UNSC. Flood get out of containment, as always. Flood inhabit Stormtroopers. Flood inhabit Star Destroyers. Flood inhabit Death Star. Flood inhabit Empire.) Therefore, the transitive property says the Forerunner win.


Another group would be the Phoenix Navy. If you've never heard of it, PM me.

[CaptHawkeye]

The Forerunner of Halo could whip the Empire and possibly make them cry in the process (all without breaking a sweat). How do I reach this conclusion?

How indeed.

1. The Forerunner have a weapon vastly superior to any Death Star: Halo. Whereas the Death Star may be able to take down a planet, Halo covers 250,000 light years. The fleet would never get close.

How does the Halo qualify as "vastly superior" to the Death Star when it kills its user as well? That's fucking retarded.

2. The Forerunner capabilities have not been fully assessed (See Ghosts of Onyx, among others). Even if their full limits haven't been shown yet, and therefore cannot be assessed as canon, it has been said they have not reached full potential yet.

Again, I find it laughable that this race's contingency plan was mass suicide during a time of their supposed "full potential".

3. The Forerunner "beat" the Flood.

You haven't even played the games have you? The Forerunner didn't beat shit. They just put the Flood in hibrination while their culture was fucking wiped out by their own hands.

And the Flood can also be shown to beat the Empire. (Empire lands, conquering the puny UNSC. Flood get out of containment, as always. Flood inhabit Stormtroopers. Flood inhabit Star Destroyers. Flood inhabit Death Star. Flood inhabit Empire.) Therefore, the transitive property says the Forerunner win.

No, your pathetic leaps in logic say the Flood win. Sorry, but do you honestly think the Empire would waste time "containing" the flood when they could just vaporize them from space? Did it also occur to you that Stormtroopers have fucking NBC protection? And why do you think the Empire would just sit back and let the flood infect ship after ship? They'd sooner blow said ship to subatomic particles than allow the Flood to take control of anything. This is assuming the Flood can miraculously hide their takeover of a ship, considering how badly they mutate anything they assimilate.

[Stark]

Remember, they're so unstoppable and smart their Flood containment plans on the Halos were laughable childish garbage. But hey, this person is so stupid they say 'oh yeah then they'd like totally take over the shit and all' without a shred of evidence.

[Miranda Keyes]

I have played the games, and read all four books. Please notice my profile name.

Halo DOES NOT KILL THE USER. If you were standing there at the time of detonation, then yeah, you'd die, and you're stupid, but the system includes provisions for a central Ark which (presumably, given that there are proven shield worlds) would protect the firer from the effects of Halo.

Hawkeye and Stark:I'm beginning to wonder if you have read the books: Onyx is said to be a shield world which protects the Forerunner from the effects of Halo, they have a contingency plan so it doesn't also kill the user. Also, the question is not, can the Forerunner kill the Empire without taking any casualties, it is can the Forerunner defeat the Empire? And the answer is definitively yes. The Forerunner have built a defensive network that is so large it involves the construction of entire planets solely for the purpose of defense of the Forerunner empire.

CaptHawkeye: I'd suggest you read Ghosts of Onyx before putting yourself out there to be mocked for your lack of knowledge. (Dr. Halsey translates the proper name of Onyx to be "Shield World").


Stark: The flood are named that for a reason. The Empire would be faced with a virtually unstoppable tide of enemies that make their ships the enemy. Imagine an enemy that takes your every technology and turns it against you. Imagine a situation where no supply convoy is safe, where there is nowhere to hide. The flood are dangerous, and if they don't kill the Empire it will only be at great cost to the Imperial Fleet.

[Stark]

I have played the games, and read all four books. Please notice my profile name.

Oh, we know. And it SUCKS.

Halo DOES NOT KILL THE USER. If you were standing there at the time of detonation, then yeah, you'd die, and you're stupid, but the system includes provisions for a central Ark which (presumably, given that there are proven shield worlds) would protect the firer from the effects of Halo.

So?

Hawkeye and Stark:I'm beginning to wonder if you have read the books: Onyx is said to be a shield world which protects the Forerunner from the effects of Halo, they have a contingency plan so it doesn't also kill the user. Also, the question is not, can the Forerunner kill the Empire without taking any casualties, it is can the Forerunner defeat the Empire? And the answer is definitively yes. The Forerunner have built a defensive network that is so large it involves the construction of entire planets solely for the purpose of defense of the Forerunner empire.

Of course I haven't read the books: why would I read bad books from a bad game? Are you saying the Forerunners survived on Onyx? How is this a 'defensive network' when it only protects the people on that planet? If you can shield against the Halo effect, how do we know the Imperial shields won't work?

CaptHawkeye: I'd suggest you read Ghosts of Onyx before putting yourself out there to be mocked for your lack of knowledge. (Dr. Halsey translates the proper name of Onyx to be "Shield World").

Or you could just share quotes. Oh no, we're supposed to take your word for it!

Stark: The flood are named that for a reason. The Empire would be faced with a virtually unstoppable tide of enemies that make their ships the enemy. Imagine an enemy that takes your every technology and turns it against you. Imagine a situation where no supply convoy is safe, where there is nowhere to hide. The flood are dangerous, and if they don't kill the Empire it will only be at great cost to the Imperial Fleet.

Why? Serious question. If the Imperials found a Halo, they're not going to be as retarded as the Covenant or as incapable of stopping the Flood as the UNSC. 'No supply convoy is safe'? Oh yeah, because the Flood would be able to get into ISDs and run rampant around the Empire now! Instead of 'Imps open deeply shit Forerunner containment, get killed, whole area is firebombed, Flood defeated'. Let's be honest: if the Forerunners had had a clue about designing containment, the Halo outbreak would never have occurred at all. The danger of the Flood increases once it's stolen some tech, but the lame shit you fight in Halo 1 isn't going to cause any problems. The SW universe deals with shapeshifters and crazy biology all the time.

[Miranda Keyes]

Concession: The Flood may not find the Empire a pushover or even defeatable, but it's gonna suck if you have to fight them.

Non-Concession: Onyx was one of many "Shield Worlds" and you misunderstand the function and structure of the world. It is a miniature extradimensional space, simultaneously infinitely far away from every point in the universe and right in front of you to walk into. Thus, every Forerunner could retreat to this "Shield World" and live inside the infinite space of the world hidden in Slipspace. It's not literally shielded, that's just the name of the world.

[CaptHawkeye]

I have played the games, and read all four books. Please notice my profile name.

No shit. You made a referance to one of the characters in the game, something any idiot could do reading Wikipedia.

Halo DOES NOT KILL THE USER. If you were standing there at the time of detonation, then yeah, you'd die, and you're stupid, but the system includes provisions for a central Ark which (presumably, given that there are proven shield worlds) would protect the firer from the effects of Halo.

And what makes you think the Empire would just stand around and let the Forerunner plant Halos in the GFFA? Or that the Empire wouldn't attempt to destroy the Halos as fast as possible?

Even if the Empire is the aggressor, it will still be a laughably one sided fight. They'll lose a few ships to the Ring blow out, and then send in a full invasion force from their own galaxy to finish off any miraculously surviving Forerunner on these so called "shield worlds".

Hawkeye and Stark:I'm beginning to wonder if you have read the books: Onyx is said to be a shield world which protects the Forerunner from the effects of Halo, they have a contingency plan so it doesn't also kill the user.

You don't seem to understand just how much their contingency plan sucks. If fucking destroys their society you dumbshit. What kind of attack strategy is that?

Also, the question is not, can the Forerunner kill the Empire without taking any casualties, it is can the Forerunner defeat the Empire? And the answer is definitively yes.

Back these bullshit claims up. Now.

The Forerunner have built a defensive network that is so large it involves the construction of entire planets solely for the purpose of defense of the Forerunner empire.

No, it involved the construction of a few thin space rings consisting mostly of storage and holding technology.

CaptHawkeye: I'd suggest you read Ghosts of Onyx before putting yourself out there to be mocked for your lack of knowledge. (Dr. Halsey translates the proper name of Onyx to be "Shield World").

And what exactly can Halsey base this on? Conjecture? How long and detailed was Halsey's analysis? And how many "Forerunner" actually survived on this planet? Better yet, why didn't Halsey have a frigging cocktail party with the surviving Forerunner when he landed? Oh that's right, because none to few did survive.

Stark: The flood are named that for a reason. The Empire would be faced with a virtually unstoppable tide of enemies that make their ships the enemy.

You're a fucking idiot. How many times do I have to tell you that the Empire isn't just going to stand around and let their ships be taken over?

Imagine an enemy that takes your every technology and turns it against you.

Trying to, right now i'm imagining an enemy with no sense of NBC protection, stealth, or available tactics to an enemy with such vast amounts of power.

Imagine a situation where no supply convoy is safe, where there is nowhere to hide.

We don't have to imagine it, it's called "war".

The flood are dangerous, and if they don't kill the Empire it will only be at great cost to the Imperial Fleet.

Sure, if they stand around and let the Flood take over ship after and planet after planet. All of your "zomg flood win" strategies involve the Empire literally sitting on its ass and letting the Flood go to to work.

[CaptHawkeye]

Concession: The Flood may not find the Empire a pushover or even defeatable, but it's gonna suck if you have to fight them.

Failed concession. The Empire won't even break a sweat beating the living shit out of a race as stupid as the Forerunner.

Non-Concession: Onyx was one of many "Shield Worlds" and you misunderstand the function and structure of the world. It is a miniature extradimensional space, simultaneously infinitely far away from every point in the universe and right in front of you to walk into. Thus, every Forerunner could retreat to this "Shield World" and live inside the infinite space of the world hidden in Slipspace. It's not literally shielded, that's just the name of the world.

Then what kind of victory is this? They end up in some magically fairy tale afterlife whilst defeating their enemy? If the Forerunner did this, why didn't they leave their shield worlds after the Halos were used?

[Stark]

Concession: The Flood may not find the Empire a pushover or even defeatable, but it's gonna suck if you have to fight them.

Thus, not belonging in 'can defeat Empire easily' thread.

Non-Concession: Onyx was one of many "Shield Worlds" and you misunderstand the function and structure of the world. It is a miniature extradimensional space, simultaneously infinitely far away from every point in the universe and right in front of you to walk into. Thus, every Forerunner could retreat to this "Shield World" and live inside the infinite space of the world hidden in Slipspace. It's not literally shielded, that's just the name of the world.

So, their shield worlds are a pocket universe? Are you saying that the Forerunners AREN'T dead, and are currently living in quasispace?

[The Vortex Empire]

[quote="Stark]

Non-Concession: Onyx was one of many "Shield Worlds" and you misunderstand the function and structure of the world. It is a miniature extradimensional space, simultaneously infinitely far away from every point in the universe and right in front of you to walk into. Thus, every Forerunner could retreat to this "Shield World" and live inside the infinite space of the world hidden in Slipspace. It's not literally shielded, that's just the name of the world.

So, their shield worlds are a pocket universe? Are you saying that the Forerunners AREN'T dead, and are currently living in quasispace?[/quote]
According to Ghosts of Onyx, someone in one of those pockets would survive, but it seemed that no forerunners had used it. Oh, and also, there's no way out unless someone activates the Halos again. So regardless of how well it may protect you, it doesn't help you in a war, unless you're willing to wait for a new sentient species to evolve and activate Halo. So basically, it doesn't help at all.

[The Vortex Empire]

Ghetto Edit: Could a mod fix the quote tags and delete this? Thank you.

[Stark]

According to Ghosts of Onyx, someone in one of those pockets would survive, but it seemed that no forerunners had used it. Oh, and also, there's no way out unless someone activates the Halos again. So regardless of how well it may protect you, it doesn't help you in a war, unless you're willing to wait for a new sentient species to evolve and activate Halo. So basically, it doesn't help at all.

REALLY? So they can't pop in and out, it's some side-effect of the Halo effect? Wierd. In that case, how does anyone know there's noone in there?

And also couldn't you set the Halos on a timer?

[Miranda Keyes]

Yes, they are allegedly in the quasi-universe implied in Ghosts of Onyx. I agree the flood should be pulled, I went back and looked and found that many of their advantages were due to egregious research error, and third: We don't know whether or not they made a way to leave the quasi-universe, but would they want to? Think about it, they're in a big grassy sphere without flood or Empire. It doesn't sound that bad to me.

[The Vortex Empire]

According to Ghosts of Onyx, someone in one of those pockets would survive, but it seemed that no forerunners had used it. Oh, and also, there's no way out unless someone activates the Halos again. So regardless of how well it may protect you, it doesn't help you in a war, unless you're willing to wait for a new sentient species to evolve and activate Halo. So basically, it doesn't help at all.

REALLY? So they can't pop in and out, it's some side-effect of the Halo effect? Wierd. In that case, how does anyone know there's noone in there?

And also couldn't you set the Halos on a timer?

Not a side effect, the activation of the Halos made a portal open in the middle on Onyx that led to the "pocket", and then it closed after 60 hours or so.

They don't know that there's nobody in it, at the end of the book the humans that went in it were trapped, so they set out to search the place. So for all the readers know, there could be a forerunner civilization in there. It seems unlikely though, wouldn't they put some people by the portal in case it opened again?

[Miranda Keyes]

Additional comment to Hawkeye: Even if the Empire will beat the living shit out of the Flood, the Flood will beat the living shit out of the Stormtrooper's morale. You can tell me all you want about their discipline and training, but having to go up and put a blaster round or shotgun shell in the deformed face of a person who was once your friend or comrade (or two of them at once) is going to suck majorly. I didn't mean the Empire would have problems, but they won't enjoy that fight. Like being a glorified Orkin man fighting flesh-eating cockroaches. And I defy all of you to prove to me that the Orkin man could not single-handedly conquer the Empire in a day!





Yes, I'm joking.

[Stark]

Except stormies can't even see their comrades faces, and they're largely clones anyway?