What is light? ..

[kojikun]

What exactly is light? If not a particle but rather a wave, what does it propogate through? Ive heard nothing, that its a non-medium wave, but this is nonsense because by definition a wave compression and decompression through a medium. So what is the medium?

Supposedly its the skein (fabric of space time, word (c) Banks). If this is true (and it could very well be), and if its true that gravity is a depression in the skein, then is a gravity wave a very low frequency very high amplitude EM pulse? Perhaps that is the link between EM and gravity.

If that then is true, would it be possible to make an extremely long wave high amplitude transmitter that would in effect create gravity without a large mass? Maybe thats a way to create artificial gravity, by using long wave high amplitude transmitters. There would be an issue with the amplitude constantly varying however.

Another thing is, this would explain how massless light can actually produce force. If light is indeed ripples in the skein, then gravity like effects should be observed at appropriate frequencies and amplitudes. At the right frequency, the ripples might move just right to cause motion away from the source. I guessing, however, that typical EM radiation is at such pathetically low amplitude compared to gravity that theres no major motion, but smaller particle (molecule and atom) motion is more easy to achieve which would be why light can heat objects.

Just a theory.

[Warspite]

What the hell have you been reading??????

Ligth is described by an electromagnetic (as in the sobreposition of a electric and magnetic field) energy quantum (packet) called a photon, which is BOTH a particle and a wave.

Ligth has a constant velocity in the vaccum (3E8 m/s), and there is NOT some special medium through which it propagates, that's bullshit, the ehther (the designated medium) was disproven in the early 20th Century, and that's why quantum physics was born.

[kojikun]

*sigh* Warspite, shut up. I never said it never displayed wave-particle duality, never brought up the speed of light at all, and never mentioned the ether. I simply replaced "space time fabric" with skein because it saves the redundency. The concept of light being transverse waves through the fabric of space-time is not a new one.

[Warspite]

*sigh* Warspite, shut up. I never said it never displayed wave-particle duality, never brought up the speed of light at all, and never mentioned the ether. I simply replaced "space time fabric" with skein because it saves the redundency. The concept of light being transverse waves through the fabric of space-time is not a new one.

OK, but you've got to present some proof...
(There was some thread a few months ago, about some pseudo-science book that said the same stuff, sorry, but you theory was very similar to it.)

[kojikun]

what is there to proove? that according to some theories light is a transverse wave in the fabric of space?

[Colonel Olrik]

What exactly is light? If not a particle but rather a wave, what does it propogate through? Ive heard nothing, that its a non-medium wave, but this is nonsense because by definition a wave compression and decompression through a medium. So what is the medium?

Light does NOT need a medium to propagate. It's an electromagnetic wave, not a mechanical wave, like sound.
Electromagnetic waves are created by the vibration of an electric charge. This vibration creates a wave which has both an electric and a magnetic component. An electromagnetic wave transports its energy through a vacuum at a speed of 2.99x 10e8 m/s (commonly known as "c").

The physics behind it are well known since Maxwell came up with some pretty equations that you may or may not have heard of.

[kojikun]

Yes, we understand that light is electromagnetic, we get that. The question is not whether it is or isnt, but rather, how is that electromagnetic wave transmitted? What is that wave? Is it merely a mathematically defined property or is there something actually affecting something else, rather then magic numbers?

[Warspite]

what is there to proove? that according to some theories light is a transverse wave in the fabric of space?

Well, yeah... If ligth is a wave in the space-time medium, then it should affect/be affected by it. We've got the be affected part (relativity), so, how does ligth affect the "fabric of space"? By imposing limits on it (c)?

Gravity is the creator of the depression of the space-time (the skin), and ligth is affected by this depression, it is subjected to the "skin". The key would be in understanding the "fabric" of space-time, and that can only be achievied by understanding the force that alter it --- gravity.

As for gravity being a low pulse high amplitude (intensity?), sure, why not, but not an electromagnetic manifestation, since it's one of the fundamental forces.

The trouble with all this is the dificulty in testing, since where dealing with infinitesimal scales and values, example, the thread about Einstein, 70 years has passed since the Theories, and only know can we prove that gravity travels at c.

[Colonel Olrik]

Yes, we understand that light is electromagnetic, we get that. The question is not whether it is or isnt, but rather, how is that electromagnetic wave transmitted? What is that wave? Is it merely a mathematically defined property or is there something actually affecting something else, rather then magic numbers?

What do you mean by "magic"? Maxwell equations are logical and their physics is sound. They're a bit complicated to understand (make it impossible without at least one year of math and physics at college). The mechanism behind elecromagnetic waves transmission is well understood and explained by them. Like mass increase due to relativistic speeds. Do you feel the same towards the Theory of Relativity?

[Warspite]

Yes, we understand that light is electromagnetic, we get that. The question is not whether it is or isnt, but rather, how is that electromagnetic wave transmitted? What is that wave? Is it merely a mathematically defined property or is there something actually affecting something else, rather then magic numbers?

You're making a too huge analogy with ocean waves, don't. Yes, it's merely a mathematical description.
Electromagnetic waves consist of mutually perpendicular electric and magnetic fields that oscilate at the same frequency, and propagate at c, in the same direction (given by the external product between both fields.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Light, koji, is virtually massless. a quanta has so little energy that if you use E=mc^2 to devise the mass it comes out to something extremely small. In fact you would have to have ~3 ExoJoules to have 1 kg of mass, and 1 kg of mass generates so little gravity that it is impossible to see on the skein, but then, the gravity effects of black hole developing star deaths causes micrometer effects.
The fact that the wave and particle properties are disputed is the fact that sometimes they get light to act like a wave, sometimes they get it to act like particles, but never the two shall meet.
Something that really stumps physicists is why when using a beam of light and a piece of single then a piece of double slit paper caused a diffraction pattern to be created. But when fired one at a time the light create the same pattern with no interference.

[Colonel Olrik]

You're making a too huge analogy with ocean waves, don't. Yes, it's merely a mathematical description.
Electromagnetic waves consist of mutually perpendicular electric and magnetic fields that oscilate at the same frequency, and propagate at c, in the same direction (given by the external product between both fields.

In more easy to understand words, the magnetic and electric fields feed of each other, constantly propagating the wave.

The math is hard, and the concepts hard to visualize, but it's simple physics, nonetheless.

[Warspite]

You're making a too huge analogy with ocean waves, don't. Yes, it's merely a mathematical description.
Electromagnetic waves consist of mutually perpendicular electric and magnetic fields that oscilate at the same frequency, and propagate at c, in the same direction (given by the external product between both fields.

In more easy to understand words, the magnetic and electric fields feed of each other, constantly propagating the wave.

The math is hard, and the concepts hard to visualize, but it's simple physics, nonetheless.

Heh! I'm off now, you go on...

[kojikun]

warspite, you were never on to begin with. you never understood what i said let alone were capable of debating it.

olkirk, when i say magic i mean this: we all know that when an object bumps another object, one causes the other to move. But with physics, a "force" doesnt need to bump anything. A force is like a magician making a ball float, he waves his hand and the ball follows but doesnt seem to be connected to anything. Quantum physics aside, no object can affect another without contacting it (no action at a distance) and yet this is precisely what gravity, magnetic, etc are. But like the ball and magician, there is always a string attached, something to push and pull and tease along the ball, something real not just a number (logic dictates that if gravity is pure math, someone or something must calculate that to make gravity happen).

Self propogating waves are all good and well, but there must be mechanism. Theres no such thing as "Movement of nothingess", empty space cant oscillate.

Oh, and there is an aether, its called quantum foam.

I just had an epiphany while reading Michio Kaku's hyperspace:

The universe is a vast hypersphere that moves ever inward towards its own center. The present is an arbitrary radius, perhaps midway between the centerpoint and the "shell" of the universe. Gravity (and all forces) is literally a dent in space, towards the centerpoint, caused by the motion of the future pushing the contents of the universe towards the its center. As we move into the future, our mass is pushing on space and deforming it. Time dilation due to speed is like centrifugal force: the faster you go, the further from the center you move, so the speed of the future relative to your self is slower then usual. Time dilation due to gravity is because, like i said, mass deforms space towards the centerpoint, and so the future is also distorted towards the centerpoint because of mass, and as a result the future starts forcing itself over the present, forcing the time dilation.

The speed of light is the ultimate speed limit because the fast you go the closer you get to the shell of the universe, which is where the future comes from and the future is moving with greater force the closer to the shell you get.

As for time travel, you can go forward from time dilation, and you can go backwards through wormholes. When you go forward, you interact with the universe normally, but when you go back you are moving into what has already happened, and here there are two possibilities: 1 is that you cannot change that because its already happened (you can see everything, but no interaction, no touching, hearing, breathing), 2 is that you can change things, but only deflect events slightly, not completely, and never seperate cause from effect (this being the cosmic time cop much spoken about).

sorry, i sound like a loon, but my search for a physical explanation for the universe seems to be at an end and this thread seems to have lost its purpose.

[aerius]

According to a new theory, Light is the absence of dark.

[Darth Wong]

What exactly is light?

Me. I am the Way and the Light.

[kojikun]

What exactly is light?

Me. I am the Way and the Light.

That nice dear. You are the way and the dark. No sith lord is a Lightsider!

[Cthulhu-chan]

Er, but I thought you were the path to the dark side...

Joking aside, I've read of theories that place the quantum foam as the "fabric" of the universe, as well as the medium for the propigation of the various forces. Don't know if it's going to be verified or not, but hey... Of course, there's always the very real posibility of things beyond the quantum level, but that's a whole 'nother can 'o worms.

The question of "what is light?" is certainly a good one, but I think a far better one is What is a force? Why do some have a atractive or repulsive effect dependent on polarity, while others are purely attractive? Just what the hell IS the "weak" force?

[Sokar]

Light, koji, is virtually massless. a quanta has so little energy that if you use E=mc^2 to devise the mass it comes out to something extremely small. In fact you would have to have ~3 ExoJoules to have 1 kg of mass, and 1 kg of mass generates so little gravity that it is impossible to see on the skein, but then, the gravity effects of black hole developing star deaths causes micrometer effects.
The fact that the wave and particle properties are disputed is the fact that sometimes they get light to act like a wave, sometimes they get it to act like particles, but never the two shall meet.
Something that really stumps physicists is why when using a beam of light and a piece of single then a piece of double slit paper caused a diffraction pattern to be created. But when fired one at a time the light create the same pattern with no interference.

Ah.....welcome to the headache that is Quantum Physics

[Keevan_Colton]

What exactly is light?

Me. I am the Way and the Light.

That nice dear. You are the way and the dark. No sith lord is a Lightsider!

Shhh!!! We're gathering all the people that believe the light thing up for a darwin award contest....

*goes back to hiding in the bushes with a thermal detonator*

[Durandal]

Light, koji, is virtually massless. a quanta has so little energy that if you use E=mc^2 to devise the mass it comes out to something extremely small. In fact you would have to have ~3 ExoJoules to have 1 kg of mass, and 1 kg of mass generates so little gravity that it is impossible to see on the skein, but then, the gravity effects of black hole developing star deaths causes micrometer effects.

1 kg of mass has 9E16 J of rest energy, not 3E16 J.

The fact that the wave and particle properties are disputed is the fact that sometimes they get light to act like a wave, sometimes they get it to act like particles, but never the two shall meet.

It can act as either depending on the experiment. If yo shine a flashlight through a narrow slit, the light will scatter because the narrow slit disrupts the wave. If you shoot a photon at an atom, it can knock one of the electrons out of orbit. If I recall, there are some theories out there which presuppose that light propagates through the quantum foam in free space.

[kojikun]

--The question of "what is light?" is certainly a good one, but I think a far better one is What is a force? Why do some have a atractive or repulsive effect dependent on polarity, while others are purely attractive? Just what the hell IS the "weak" force?--

Thats PRECISELY why i theorised what i did. If light is a fluctuation in the skein, then light is merely how out minds percieve the skein ripples. That would mean, also, that gravity is merely light that is constantly in a fixed on state. If humans could produce high amplitude ripples, sufficient to equal roughly one gravity, then we might be able to produce artificial gravity, as well as reactionless mass drives that use no rockets.

thats also a very good question, just WTF is that weak interactive force?! LOL