Palpatine's RedGuard vs. the Sardaukar (Dune)

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2003-01-08 09:26pm

Who would win here?

jodathalas · Post by **jodathalas** » 2003-01-08 09:29pm

Palpatines Redguard.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 09:31pm

Messing with a Crimson Guardsman is a good way to get dead.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2003-01-08 09:31pm

I must disagree. The Sardaukar had been in existence for hundreds of years, and their ferocity was legendary. They were rated against 10 Landsraad conscripts.

jodathalas · Post by **jodathalas** » 2003-01-08 09:32pm

Your not listening. REDGUARD!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 09:32pm

And a Crimson Guardsman could kill 10 stormtroopers. A stormtrooper is much more dangerous than a Dune conscript. Crimson Guardsmen have limited use of the Force. They're not as dangerous as a Jedi, but much more dangerous than a Sardaukar.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2003-01-08 09:37pm

But consider: Accorrding to the book, the Sardaukar were raised from infancy to not just fight, but to instill terror. From what I know if the Crimson Guards, they were picked men from Imperial troops, but I seriously doubt that they had been trained from infancy (unless they're clones?). Also, a Sardaukar is reputed to be the rough equivalent of a Bene Gesserit adept. I'm not sure how that equates to a Jedi, but that is pretty damn tough.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-01-08 09:39pm

Imperial/High/Royal/Crimson Guard will kill Sardaukar, then eat their hearts to gain their courage... Their rich, tasty courage...

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-01-08 09:39pm

Darth Wong wrote:And a Crimson Guardsman could kill 10 stormtroopers.

To that I say HOLY SHIT!!!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 09:44pm

Defiant wrote:But consider: Accorrding to the book, the Sardaukar were raised from infancy to not just fight, but to instill terror. From what I know if the Crimson Guards, they were picked men from Imperial troops, but I seriously doubt that they had been trained from infancy (unless they're clones?).

So? Klingons are trained from infancy to fight, and they suck. Unless the Sardaukar can use the Force and use Force pikes to kill men with guns in large numbers with no need for goofball techno-shields to protect them, they are no match for a Crimson Guardsman.

Also, a Sardaukar is reputed to be the rough equivalent of a Bene Gesserit adept. I'm not sure how that equates to a Jedi, but that is pretty damn tough.

Do not introduce somebody else's opinion as evidence.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 09:49pm

paladin wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And a Crimson Guardsman could kill 10 stormtroopers.

To that I say HOLY SHIT!!!

Right, and a Sovereign Protector can do more or less the same thing to a group guardsmen.

And apparently there is a difference between the Royal Guard and the Imperial Guard going by the Dark Side Sourcebook. Imperial Guards are highly trained and can be found in many important places with high ranking people, Royal Guards are only with the Emperor and have slight force powers (think limited precog and some healing abilities) But that bit is mainly my speculation to try and clean up the problem that WOTC made when they confused things again.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » 2003-01-08 09:49pm

Fair enough.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 10:07pm

Read "Crimson Empire". The Force powers of Crimson Guardsmen are real. They would annihilate Sardaukar.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 10:09pm

Darth Wong wrote:Read "Crimson Empire". The Force powers of Crimson Guardsmen are real. They would annihilate Sardaukar.

Jax was undergoing training to be a Sovereign Protector according to SW Gamer #5

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-08 10:09pm

1. Weapons that carve though anything you put aginst them(Vibro-blades) barring lightsabers
2. Precong Abilites
3. They carry regular blasters as well, If the Holzte shields don't go kablooie when they shoot them will simply wap them down from afar

But consider: Accorrding to the book, the Sardaukar were raised from infancy to not just fight, but to instill terror

Bzzt, If thiers a Dune book I have not read yet, let me know
Sardaukar are simply people, thrown on Saul Secudus, its a horrible world, highly dangours and every once in awhile Existing Sardaukar attack the surviors and any that agian survie are trained as Sardaukar, They are not "trained from Infancy to fight" Rather they are made to grow up in a horrible place which toughens them up THEN they are trained to fight by the Sardukar and thusly become Sarduakar

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-08 10:26pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Defiant wrote:But consider: Accorrding to the book, the Sardaukar were raised from infancy to not just fight, but to instill terror. From what I know if the Crimson Guards, they were picked men from Imperial troops, but I seriously doubt that they had been trained from infancy (unless they're clones?).
So? Klingons are trained from infancy to fight, and they suck. Unless the Sardaukar can use the Force and use Force pikes to kill men with guns in large numbers with no need for goofball techno-shields to protect them, they are no match for a Crimson Guardsman.
Also, a Sardaukar is reputed to be the rough equivalent of a Bene Gesserit adept. I'm not sure how that equates to a Jedi, but that is pretty damn tough.
Do not introduce somebody else's opinion as evidence.

And if they use guns to kill men in goofy dresses using the force and force pikes, that is in the Crimson Guard's favor how?

And since when does the AUTHOR's own words count as an irrevelant opinion?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-08 10:28pm

Edit that last sentance to read "do the AUTHOR's own words"

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-08 10:38pm

And if they use guns to kill men in goofy dresses using the force and force pikes, that is in the Crimson Guard's favor how?

Because the Goofy Dress let them hide everything from portal shield generators to blaster cannons under there

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 10:40pm

Frank Hipper wrote:And if they use guns to kill men in goofy dresses using the force and force pikes, that is in the Crimson Guard's favor how?

Since the grammar here is atrocious, I'm gonna guess at what you are saying and try to respond: You do realize the Guardsmen have armor on underneath the robes and the robes are designed in such a way that they don't impare fighting, right?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-08 10:56pm

Ender wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:And if they use guns to kill men in goofy dresses using the force and force pikes, that is in the Crimson Guard's favor how?
Since the grammar here is atrocious, I'm gonna guess at what you are saying and try to respond: You do realize the Guardsmen have armor on underneath the robes and the robes are designed in such a way that they don't impare fighting, right?

How could that helmet not impair ( or is it impare

) fighting abilities? And is the armor superior to a stormtrooper's? Unless I'm mistaken, it is not especially effective agaisnt beam weapons.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-08 11:02pm

Pretty much on par with ST armor...what little they had...they are meant to be the true guardian of the Emperor.

Plus really how does one equate what a Bene Gesserit is vs a Jedi...what we do know(for Kir Kanos anyways) is that a single guardsman is able to in close quarters deflect blaster bolts from at least three officers, and deaft a good size host of stormtroopers. I have yet to read any Sarduakar doing an equvilent.

And given that probably Kanos maybe the upper crust, I would say the rest are not that shy of what he was.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-08 11:05pm

How could that helmet not impair ( or is it impare ) fighting abilities? And is the armor superior to a stormtrooper's? Unless I'm mistaken, it is not especially effective agaisnt beam weapons.

Don't forget thier raw-speed, Somthing Sardukar don't have, We have examples of REGUALR Guardsmen remeber not even the Elite, Elites that we are discussing going from sitting in a chair to flying down the confrence table to grap the blaster out of a Moff's hand as show in VoTF, Zahn's book

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 11:07pm

Frank Hipper wrote:How could that helmet not impair ( or is it impare ) fighting abilities?

Observed evidence is that it does not. I could speculate about sensors inside it making up for limited visability or what not, but it would just be speculation. Fact stands, Guardsmen massacre people in those things with little problem from them.

And is the armor superior to a stormtrooper's? Unless I'm mistaken, it is not especially effective agaisnt beam weapons.

It is superior, both in protection and in allowing for movement. HTe shots of it we have seen indicate it is flexible (covers the hips and sides with no imparement) and either has a prominent body glove or has heavier armor over some kind of flexible armor.

And what is the source about beam weapons.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-01-08 11:13pm

Ender wrote:
And what is the source about beam weapons.

The films. Stormtroopers take a blaster shot and go down, correct?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 11:15pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
Ender wrote:
And what is the source about beam weapons.
The films. Stormtroopers take a blaster shot and go down, correct?

1) Ok, I was confused since that is a bolt, not a beam weapon
2) Go down, yes. Die, not necessarily. The armor makes a one shot kill very difficult.