PS3=Longterm Gaming Wii=Gimmick Discuss

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 08:34pm

I hear all Mario games are thematically the same and can all be dismissed as 'lol Mario game'? I'm not going to bother pointing out that despite your dishonesty, about half of the list has NOTHING to do with franchises. Just to edify the stupid, Praxis listed 5 games WITH MARIO IN (including basketball, fighting, party minigames etc), *A* Metroid game, *2* RE games, and *A* Tony Hawk game. that's 9 franchise games (that 18 hates because they have the word 'Mario' in the title) vs 8 named unrelated games.

Frankly, just the future of rhythm games is enough to make me want my Wii back. GH3, Wii Music, DDR... the stupid Rayman rhythm game was cool enough by itself.

Don't tell me, I'm a Wii fanboy? Even though I think most people on SDN would be far happier with a 360 due to their conservative tastes? OH NOES I CAN LIKE DIFFERENT THINGS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 09:39pm

I dont think anyone is a "Wii fanboy", i dont care. I was simply pointing out that none of those games interest me, so i now know i dont need that system. Personally, yeah i'm sick of Mario games, they are all basically the same deal plotwise and the ones without a plot are all party games. Party games were never my niche. Super Smash Bros never caught my interest either. It's nice to play with friends but it just feels boring to me most of the time. Sonic games suck intensely now, due to improper handling.

Secondly i'm done with RE games and i never liked Metroid. Or Zelda. And i hate Tony Hawk and all the games of that genre. If i wanted to play sports, and i do, i go out and play sports i dont play them ON A VIDEO GAME because that defeats the purpose. Really why on Earth play a sports GAME instead of a sport? Are we that sedintary now? I never understood the concept...if i wanted to skateboard, i'd try to learn. If i want to play football, i'll get some friends and play football. The idea of sitting down and pretending to play football or skateboard seems almost surreal to me.

Frankly i dont care what other people like, since i'm not other people. (I always hate that argument, which people use a lot when discussing TV shows to my annoyance, that X number of people liked X so then i must "not get it" or i have "bad taste" because i find it retarded or boring, re South Park, nBSG, etc) But for me that list of games only tells me i dont need to waste my money. Not until well after 2008 anyway.

But yeah so i must be trying to dig at Wii fans because i mention not liking the systems or games. The fact this is a discussion about nothing else BUt weather or not one likes the Wii or PS3 or 360 is irrelevent, because i'm immediately wrong because my opinion of those games is negative. It cant be that i.....wait for it.......like different things for different reasons!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 10:06pm

I'm sorry 18, you're simply retarded. You say Mario games are 'all the same plotwise' when referring to a standard Mario game, a party game, a fighting game, and A FUCKING BASKETBALL GAME. My whole fucking point is that you're SO STUPID you don't understand that something with Mario in the name ISN'T NECESSARILY A FUCKING PLATFORMER.

And don't dodge the fucking point that your ignorant opinion (believe me, your ignorance is plain for all to see when you claim a basketball game is 'basically the same plotwise' as a party game) applies to HALF the games Praxis listed. Stop pretending you know what you're talking about. Yeah, if you discount the 'identical' Mario games you've only got 7 games named by Praxis, plus more. ZOMG YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.

Don't whinge to me about your opinion - nobody cares what you think. However, *I* care that you're making ignorant, ill-informed statements. You talk a lot of shit, and I called you on it. Your characterisation of 2007 Wii releases as 'lol mario lol RE lol' is complete bullshit.

You get nothing. Good day sir!

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-06-09 10:11pm

Wait, there are people who are so critically retarded as to actually care about the plot of Super Mario Bros.?!? This boggles my mind, I didn't realize that bopping Goombas and Koopa Troopas had to have a point.

I'm gonna have to sit down, this is some heavy shit.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2007-06-09 10:13pm

Every fucking thread

My top 3 consoles in the order you should buy them as of today.

1) Nintendo DS
2) Playstation 2
3) Wii

By next year, Wii goes up one, PS2 drops off, and PS3 gets in at 3rd.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2007-06-09 10:22pm

Well 18 what type of games do you like?

Marios have rarely been plot centric, except for... is it 6 RPGs? And of them the majority of them haven't been Bowser kidnaps the Princess. But, ignoring all those, Mario goes for a game experience, and I don't think you can find a game character that has a more varied range of Game experiences, sports games, racing games, fighting games, diverse platformers, RPGs all designed to be fun quirky games. Leave your heady plots at the door.

So you like plot oriented games? Oh wait, your knocking down Resident Evil. A game that for the majority of its run suffered from gameplay problems(the fact that it kept its awful control system for so long is criminal), and survived entirely on plot and environment. Now I can't blame you for not liking the RE games for their game experience... had that not all be surperbly fixed in RE4. And from what I hear Dead Aim(which what Umbrella Chronicles is going to be a gameplay sequel to) fixed the problems of the Survivor line. RE4 is hands down the best action game I have ever played.

So what exactly do you like in a game? And incredibly detailed and intristic plot with unique and original gameplay experience? Wouldn't we all. Fact is most games sacrifice one for the other... RE4 being the best example otherwise that comes to mind, but alas...

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:09pm

Ok look whatever, i dont care. Really i dont get what is so offensive about this, i wasnt trying to insult Wii fans or party game fans, i was trying to insult sports game fans but thats cause i find that whole genre bizarre. I just know those games arent my niche, i find them all pretty much identical to the previous entries in their various lineages and i feel no need to buy any. After 2008 maybe it'll get better, but i frankly dont give enough of a shit about the Wii and Mario to weather a bunch of people using (very old) insults and putting on airs or some shit, especially when i (mostly) wasnt.

I'm sure everyone will enjoy playing with their online buddies using their Miis or whatever, i just dont. I like single player games, usually something like a shooter or FPS, most of my freinds do too (which is why i rarely buy fighting games anymore). Whatever your opinion is these games i respect that, i just dont like it. I presume other games will come out after 2008 so we'll see.

Anyway, to actually respond to this...

Well 18 what type of games do you like?

FPS, shooters, SHUMPS, some RTS games but not all.

So what exactly do you like in a game?

Violence so i can take out my agreession on non-living enemies. I prefer more open ending ("sandbox" is the buzzword) games like GTA 3, GTA Vice City where i get to vent my fantasies of having a driver's licence. Certain RTS games i really enjoy, Warcraft, Starcraft, Total Annihilation and thats about it. Almost all SHUMPS save a few that are too ferociously hard. Shooters like Gunstar Heroes, the original RE or Gungrave, not stuff like Tomb Raider though. Some "comedy" games like Conker's Bad Fur Day. FPS games are always good, my current favorite being Serious Sam (Halo is good, story wise, but a little difficult for me and i'm not into multiplayer) also i like older ones like Duke Nukem, Quake and Doom. Doom for the 64 is still good to me, even now.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-06-09 11:11pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Looking at Praxis' future Wii games, now i KNOW i dont need that system. Not one of those games is interesting to me.

Wow, more Metroid and RE games. Cause i didnt get bored with those around RE 3...

And Mario! Looka isa Mario, yay. And Zelda we have already, which along with Metroid and Tony "Old Dude" Hawk creates the ULTIMATE outdated franchise avalanche.

Wow, talk about extreme generalization!

Let's see. There have been two Metroid games in the last ten years. Oh yes, making a third one is really stretching it, isn't it? I'm sooooo tired of Metroid games. Especially with Wii-mote control. I mean, we see that all the time right?

Other people covered RE.

Mario? Dude, they make ONE Mario platformer every FIVE YEARS. Mario 64 -> Mario Sunshine -> Mario Galaxy. They're always extremely good and get fans worked up. This is a major title.

There's a Mario Platformer, a Mario Soccer game, a Mario Party game, and a Mario/Sonic crossover sports game.

These games have no relation other than the characters involved. Mario sports games are usually IMHO better than the original sport; you've got soccer + bombs and turtle shells and WMDs. I mean, that's just awesomely fun. Plus, it's online. Mario Party is obviously an insanely fun part game. Nobody knows anything about the Mario/Sonic game. And the platformer is a huge title. Dismissing them as "Oh, Mario games" is idiotic.

Are you TRYING to stereotype yourself like a high-schooler with "Mario is teh kiddie"?

Plus you skipped over a lot of games.

And that was the 2007 list.

For reference; I HATE sports games. I only enjoy Mario ones, because it's basically sports where you blow away your opponents; extremely agressive and fun in multiplayer.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 11:14pm

AHAHAHAHAHA backpedal some more, idiot. You don't know what you're talking about, so shut the fuck up. People want INFORMED opinions, not 'zomg everything with mario in the title is the same' opinions.

You just continue characterising this as unfair treatment of your precious baseless opinions, instead of you saying shit that was wrong and not admitting it. Honesty? What's that?

And hey, 18 is the kind of person who can't handle puzzles, who'd have thought? He hates Mario because of the 'plot', but loves Serious Sam. But take his opinion seroiusly, he's really well informed.

If he had the balls to just come out and say he hates the Wii because it doesn't have his violence-fantasy games, nobody would have a problem with that, and nobody would care (since he's not even the target audience). But that'd be honest.

EDIT - obviously, not directed at Praxis.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:21pm

Ok fine my opinion was wrong.

Wow! Oh! that hurt so bad. I can barely continue. My life...waning...my eyes darken...

I am naked in the dark...there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire!

Oh wait no...i'm fine

Whatever. I'm sorry, i guess i was generalizing a bit. In retrospect i was also being someone presumptuous too, i imagine that did sound somewhat disrespectful, so i'm sorry.

The games still dont interest me, but as you said i'm not the target audience anyway so they didnt loose any customers.

And dont say this doesnt "count" because i wasnt perfectly respectful, i can admit i was wrong and still think my opponent is being an asswipe about it.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:25pm

In addition i find it someone interesting that the Wii was aimed at a specific audience. For all the talk of this "everyman system" it does seem to be mainly created for people who like to play party games, sports and the like as opposed to more straightforward, single player experiences. This does seem to be odd, but in hindsight, it makes sense since a majority of gamers do, i hear, use multiplayer elements of games a great deal compared to the minority who dont. So that, probably as much as the price, seems to me may be what is pushing the system to the top as it is now. In retrospect i may have underestimated the usefulness of this rather unothodox sales pitch when the system originally game out too.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2007-06-09 11:25pm

Two things I wanted to add, since I don't want to pile up on 18 and Stark and Praxis have already done a good job in responding to him.

A)Its amazing how you miss our point, we were contesting the way and reasoning of your disapproval of Wii's line up, and not that your were against it. Infact no one complained about your dislike of party games, if you don't have a group of friends into them, they aren't a lot of fun.

B) Its funny your putting down a series of sports games that fix your exact complaints with the genre

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 11:28pm

OH SHUT UP. Nobody cares about your opinion. You just talk shit about things you have no knowledge of. How many times do I have to say it? NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR OPINION.

When you say 'I don't like Wii games', NOBODY CARES. Reality check, idiot - *I* don't like most Wii games. NOBODY CARES.

When you say 'lol all mario games are the same plotwise', YOU'RE FUCKING WRONG AND IGNORANT. When you say 'I hate Mario and RE so Wii sucks' when there are more non-Mario games than Mario games, YOU'RE BEING DISHONEST. When you act like someone who says 'I don't care about your opinion' in every post is attacking your opinion, YOU'RE BEING A WHINING PUSSY.

Spot the difference, retard.

EDIT - Obviously, not directed at AB. I really need to start quoting.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:30pm

Yes well i realize i made a mistake, and i conceded. Though i still hold my opinions, i see i was generalizing the lineup.

And i just dont DO sports games. I'm sorry if this sounds offensive to the fans of such games but i really dont understand the idea. I do play sports, that i can actually play as i'm fairly unathletic, but i dont see why i would want to play a game wherein i play a sport when i could actually play the sport. It seems to defeat the concept of sports, that you actually participate, like get up and move and go outside. I find it may also be part of the problem with obesity in children now that they can have all their experiences beamed to them from Nintendo or Sega instead of actually having those experiences firsthand.

Archaic` · Post by **Archaic`** » 2007-06-09 11:33pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:
Well 18 what type of games do you like?
FPS, shooters, SHUMPS, some RTS games but not all.

...so why is it then that you don't like the FPS Metroid games?

As far as Wii games go...have you considered Godfather: Blackhand Edition, or the new Manhunt?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 11:33pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:In addition i find it someone interesting that the Wii was aimed at a specific audience. For all the talk of this "everyman system" it does seem to be mainly created for people who like to play party games, sports and the like as opposed to more straightforward, single player experiences. This does seem to be odd, but in hindsight, it makes sense since a majority of gamers do, i hear, use multiplayer elements of games a great deal compared to the minority who dont. So that, probably as much as the price, seems to me may be what is pushing the system to the top as it is now. In retrospect i may have underestimated the usefulness of this rather unothodox sales pitch when the system originally game out too.

OH MY GOD.

Welcome to 2006, idiot. The Wii isn't aimed at regular gamers, you say? This is breaking news, I better call up Praxis so we can look at the Wii in this new amazing light! It's not like I just said the 360 is more appealing to regular gamers because of it's library of regular games or anything. You're a fucking genius.

Yes, the Wii is not aimed at the same market and the other two consoles. Everyone knows this, even the heads of Sony and Microsoft. It attracts nongamers into the market, and doesn't have to compete with other consoles to do it. Did you *honestly* just work this out? And what are you blithering about with your comments on multi?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:35pm

Uh...

What's your point?

I was wrong, ok. You harp on how i "dont admit it" then i admit it and you STILL go on and on and on.

What is your point? That i said something stupid, yeah ok i did, i said something stupid. I was wrong.

And...?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 11:37pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Yes well i realize i made a mistake, and i conceded. Though i still hold my opinions, i see i was generalizing the lineup.

You hold opinions that have been shown to be based on complete bullshit? Wow, that's so laudable!

18-Till-I-Die wrote:And i just dont DO sports games. I'm sorry if this sounds offensive to the fans of such games but i really dont understand the idea.

Get down off the cross, pussy. You're NOT OFFENDING ANYONE with your opinion, because NOBODY CARES. It's the LIES and the IGNORANCE people took issue with - do you really need me to say it again? Stop playing the fucking martyr.

18-Till-I-Die wrote:I do play sports, that i can actually play as i'm fairly unathletic, but i dont see why i would want to play a game wherein i play a sport when i could actually play the sport. It seems to defeat the concept of sports, that you actually participate, like get up and move and go outside. I find it may also be part of the problem with obesity in children now that they can have all their experiences beamed to them from Nintendo or Sega instead of actually having those experiences firsthand.

Yeah cause Wii Tennis and Madden are totally like real sports, right? Why play an RTS when you can join the army? OH WAIT THEY'RE TOTALLY FUCKING DIFFERENT. And Wii games would never make you get up and move, right? Nobody ever complain of Wii game related injuries?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:38pm

Archaic` wrote:
18-Till-I-Die wrote:
Well 18 what type of games do you like?
FPS, shooters, SHUMPS, some RTS games but not all.
...so why is it then that you don't like the FPS Metroid games?

As far as Wii games go...have you considered Godfather: Blackhand Edition, or the new Manhunt?

Manhunt was really not as good as i expected, and neither was Metroid, the original controls for Metroid Prime were lackluster. Manhunt just missed the mark for me, and it was TOO gruesome, it wasnt fun. Also it was largely one big stealth mission.

Did you *honestly* just work this out?

Yes i just really though it over. Having never been in that market i never thought it was important but now i see, from the way people react, that it appears to be a much larger audience than i thought it was originally. So yes i just figured it out. That was...my point!

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2007-06-09 11:41pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Uh...

What's your point?

I was wrong, ok. You harp on how i "dont admit it" then i admit it and you STILL go on and on and on.

What is your point? That i said something stupid, yeah ok i did, i said something stupid. I was wrong.

And...?

I think the point that Stark was responding to was immediately after you conceeded, you again made the same mistakes you did earlier of over generalizing and out right denial in support of your opinions.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 11:42pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Yes i just really though it over. Having never been in that market i never thought it was important but now i see, from the way people react, that it appears to be a much larger audience than i thought it was originally. So yes i just figured it out. That was...my point!

Here's a tip for free. If you've never thought about something, and don't know much about it, shut the fuck up. Don't spin baseless shit and then get catty that people pointed it out. Don't whinge about your precious opinions being attacked when it was clear that wasn't the case.

18, when you say 'Ok fine my opinion was wrong' when your opinion isn't in question (rather your ignorance), this is deeply offensive. You've been playing the 'opinion rar' card this whole thread, and the issue is that your said a bunch of stupid shit. So don't conceed your FACTS were wrong by saying your OPINION was wrong. It's fucking lame 'wah meany opinion smasher' bullshit.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-09 11:43pm

Stark wrote: You hold opinions that have been shown to be based on complete bullshit? Wow, that's so laudable!

No, my opinion is based on how i feel. The fact that i said some bullshit earlier is irrelevent to what i like and dont like and why.

Get down off the cross, pussy.

Stop putting on airs like someone actually is effected by your insults, wuss sissy little boy man!

You're NOT OFFENDING ANYONE with your opinion, because NOBODY CARES.

I was TRYING to be tactful, ass. I know it's an alien concept but i didnt want to insult anyone if i didnt need to, as people may have taken it the wrong way.

It's the LIES and the IGNORANCE people took issue with - do you really need me to say it again? Stop playing the fucking martyr.

Yeah thats right i REALLY care enough about the issue to be a martyr.

Yeah cause Wii Tennis and Madden are totally like real sports, right? Why play an RTS when you can join the army? OH WAIT THEY'RE TOTALLY FUCKING DIFFERENT. And Wii games would never make you get up and move, right? Nobody ever complain of Wii game related injuries?

Swinging a remote is not really playing tenis and you know it. It's not even close, and didnt someone say that most peopel dont actually jump around like the idiots in Wii commercials, that they use minor movements of teh remote. I would imagine thats how most people play it, since that is how it's designed. People INJURE themselves by using it wrong and ina stupid way, thats why they get injured.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-06-09 11:51pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:No, my opinion is based on how i feel. The fact that i said some bullshit earlier is irrelevent to what i like and dont like and why.

So you've explained why you don't like a pile of games because they're all the same, and they aren't. That's bullshit, 18. That's not 'feelings', you obviously have never even SEEN the games in question.

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Stop putting on airs like someone actually is effected by your insults, wuss sissy little boy man!

Or you could stop whining about people being oh so mean by saying you're oh so wrong.

18-Till-I-Die wrote:I was TRYING to be tactful, ass. I know it's an alien concept but i didnt want to insult anyone if i didnt need to, as people may have taken it the wrong way.

Wait, so you're better than me because you're more polite and TOTALLY UTTERLY WRONG? Wow, you're amazing.

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Yeah thats right i REALLY care enough about the issue to be a martyr.

Obviously you DO. I care when people say dumb shit that is wrong, and you obviously got your knickers in a knot when you didn't get away with it. Go on, say 'my opinions' again, we love that.

18-Till-I-Die wrote:
Yeah cause Wii Tennis and Madden are totally like real sports, right? Why play an RTS when you can join the army? OH WAIT THEY'RE TOTALLY FUCKING DIFFERENT. And Wii games would never make you get up and move, right? Nobody ever complain of Wii game related injuries?
Swinging a remote is not really playing tenis and you know it. It's not even close, and didnt someone say that most peopel dont actually jump around like the idiots in Wii commercials, that they use minor movements of teh remote. I would imagine thats how most people play it, since that is how it's designed. People INJURE themselves by using it wrong and ina stupid way, thats why they get injured.

Dude, I *just fucking said* they were totally different. Can you read? Are you doing this on purpose? The fact that Wii games actually involve movement, which can honest to god raise your heart rate and burn energy isn't leftist philosophy, it's a fact. No, it's not sports (nobody said it was, except you, yay strawmen) but it's not sitting on a couch twiddling sticks either. And get this - people injure themselves by doing strenuous activity without warming up too! ZOMG!

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-06-10 12:05am

Ok so what do i say, to get you to shut up.

I'm serious Stark, what, precisely, do you want me to say. You want me out of the thread, you want me to renounce my previous opinions, what? And i'm not being a "martyr" i just want to get this over with and be square with everyone so we can all move on.

And i'm not whining, nor did i say you're statements were "wrong", i just dont get what you're so fucking up in arms about. I was trying to be somewhat tactful because being fat is a touchy subject so i didnt want to come off as saying "people who play sports games were fat asses" or something, which was not my intent, so i said that i dont want to offend the fans of sports games because i felt that what i was saying may be taken the wrong way if i didnt qualify it that way. I wasnt trying to be polite i was trying to cover my ass if someone decided to take it personal.

Originally you're argument was that i wasnt admitting i was wrong, i thought it over and saw that you guys were right i was being presumptuous and so i said that. I admit i was snarky about it, but i said it.

Praxis, Anarchist Bunny and others seem to have accepted this, AFAIK, so i dont know exactly what you're problem is.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-06-10 03:25am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:In addition i find it someone interesting that the Wii was aimed at a specific audience. For all the talk of this "everyman system" it does seem to be mainly created for people who like to play party games, sports and the like as opposed to more straightforward, single player experiences. This does seem to be odd, but in hindsight, it makes sense since a majority of gamers do, i hear, use multiplayer elements of games a great deal compared to the minority who dont. So that, probably as much as the price, seems to me may be what is pushing the system to the top as it is now. In retrospect i may have underestimated the usefulness of this rather unothodox sales pitch when the system originally game out too.

Really? I kind of get the opposite impression...

Myself, I hate sports games. I haven't enjoyed a sports game since Tecmo Bowl on NES; with the sole exception of Wii Sports and Mario-related sports. Why? Because they're not simulations; when you play Mario-themed sports games, they make it much more competitive. It's not a matter of scoring; it's a matter of BLOWING YOUR OPPONENT AWAY.

I mean, soccer with missles and bombs and electric fences and giant rampaging dinosaurs and online play?

You don't see how that's appealing even to someone who doesn't normally like sports games? I hate racing sims too, but I love Burnout 3.

Anyway, the Wii's got a little of everything at this point. Adventure/RPGs? Zelda and Super Paper Mario, for starters. Party games? Rayman, Wii Sports, and Mario Party. FPS? Kinda lacking, but there's Call of Duty, there will be RE4 in a few days and Metroid Prime 3 is pure amazing. Racing? No sims, but Excite Truck is awesome for arcade-style racers.

The impression I'm getting here is that you simply disregard franchise names.

You said you like FPS, shooters, SHUMPS, and RTS.

Okay.

FPS: Metroid Prime 3 and a number of other FPS games. RE4.
Shooters: There's a number of light-gun style shooting games coming out. Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Ghost-something from Sega, etc.

SHUMPS: There are TONS of these on the Virtual Console. Like 50% of the VC games right now are SHUMPS. Tons of stuff like R-type.

RTS: The Wii will have more of these than any other console. Battallion Wars II will be the first RTS, and it's online.

Where's the 'specific audience'? I think either you simply disregard Nintendo franchises, or you're uninformed on the type of games we're talking about and think that a Mario Soccer game is the same as a FIFA soccer game. I'm not trying to bash, but trying to get some insight into why you think it's a "specific audience" when it seems to have everything you listed in your post.