Gaunts Ghosts 1 - First and Only Analysis and Discussion

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Connor MacLeod
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Oh, and remember when Gaunt vaporizes or incinerates people's heads, he may be using those cremator rounds for his bolter.
Er, where have "cremator rounds" been mentioned? I know of incendiary ones, but incendiary doesn't automatically mean "cremate".
Oh, and apparently, getting a splinter of Chaos idol material under your skin is bad. Apparently you MUTATE into a giant deformutaloidificaticated monstrosity. However the fuck THAT works.
Yes, that was the steel monster that lasgun fire melted. And as I mentioned, its bloody unlikely that the mass came from thin air (summoned creatures like Daemon require some sort of physical body/anchor in the real world, like daemonhosts, or the Daemon summonsed in Traitors Hand, which used the combined bodies of several culstists for its physical form.)
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This will be a bigger update than usual, since I've let this sit for awhile in order to finish the fleet analysis essay. It also finishes up the whole "Fortis Binary" parrt of the book and such.

Page 84

the bombardment has proceeded for twenty-four hours, dropping two or three hsells a second. At this rate, they've expended between ~173,000 and ~260,000 shells, sizes/yields unknown. If we infer yields from the prior examples (between a quarter ton of TNT to tens/hundreds of tons) the total amount of explosive dropped would be between 43 kilotons and 50-200 megatons over a 24 hour time period. That's alot of explosive to expend, no matter how you look at it. (and it hints at a very dangerous and unfriendly war zone, which may give us some indicator of the protective abilities of Imperial Guard gear.)

Page 89

the fixed artillery is fed by underground maglev carts. Witnessed are the passage of sixty carts, each carring hundreds of tons of ordnance. Given the insane amount of artillery implied to be expended above, this is no surprise.

Page 90

Dragoon armor is mica (glass bead) scale segments woven onto a base fabric of thermal insulation. Sort of more of a mesh/scale armour than flak, it would seem, or a very exotic form of flak. I'm also not sure of the exact melting point/specific heats of mica (or if there are even specific values) but I do know mica seems to have good thermal properties (extremely resilient to heat, like many silicates.) This would seem to suggest the armor is optimized against thermal attacks than kinetic (Its kinetic properties may very well suck.)

Page 92

Gaunt's pistol can operate off a sixty-shot capacity drum-pattern magazine. He reloads with inferno rounds, which may imply this was what he was using before (when he vaporised the head before.) That capacity is pretty frigging huge, too.

Page 94

mention of "needle pattern" lasguns - the sniper variant. "needle" implies these weapons have a narrower, more coherent beam. This would, coupled with the use of hotshot packs we know of, give them extremely good penetration (lots of energy focused on a smaller area) as well as greater range (reduced diffusion/dissiatpion of the beam's energy.)

Page 94
Trooper Bragg had an assault cannon which he had liberated from a pintle mount some weeks before. Gaunt had never seen a man fire one without the aid of power armour's recoil compensators or lift capacity before.
- Indication of just how bloody strong Bragg is, if that weapon is like the assault guns the Space Marine terminators use (and that it seems implied to be.) of course, lifting it and firing it accurately are two different things (and "try again" Bragg is anything but accurate, as we know.)

It also indicates that the recoil fo such weapons is not beyond an un-augmented (but freakishly strong) human to handle, and that it doesn't send them flying. Meaning that its probably less than 100 kg*m/s of momentum total. (assuming a ROF of around 3000 RPM, which is grossly conservative compared to Space marine assault cannon) and a velocity of ~1,000 m/s, this could lead to each bullet weighing ~2-10 gramms, roughly, depending on the recoil damping capabilities (if any) the gun has and Bragg's actual weight.

Nonetheless, this implies CONSIDERABLE firepower on the part of the assault cannon (of course this probably surprises noone)

Page 94

- lasguns make different noises depending on setting (the sound of a lower-power shot is distinctive from the full-power ones.)
Gaunt ordered up his meltas, flamers, and rocket launchers, and began to scour a path, blackening the concrete strips of the ramps and fusing Shriven bone into syrupy pools.
The sorts of heavy weaponry the Ghosts are known to use (at least at this point) - oddly they rarely use meltas in future novels. This also tends to suggest that all the weapons tend to be of a similar magnitude in terms of firepower (meaning that rocket launchers are probably using GJ range ammo, since we know flamers and meltas both are roughly in that range.)

Page 95
His ancient, ornate boltgun spat death into the Tanith ranks. Seargent Grell was vaporised by one of the first hits, two of his fire-team a moment later.
A single bolter round (implied) to vaporize an entire person. This is from a space Marine's boltgun of course, and a CSM at that, but other sources do support this. Vaporizing an entire person implies around 100-200 megajoules minimum, depending on extent of vaporization and the like. Obviously of course, whiel the ammo clearly exists, it does not mean that all Space Marines neccsearily carry it as standard.

Page 95

- A missile launcher explodes the upper chest, head, and arms of a Chaos Space Marine, leaving only a lower torso and legs.

While we don't know for sure the circumstances leading to said destructio or the kind of warhead, we can infer (safely) from other weapons known to take out Space Marines that its probably in the high MJ (triple digit) to low GJ range, at least (ie like krak grenades, plasma weapons, and meltaguns)

Page 95

- lower powered (The Half charge Tanith shots) can still kill Cultists, but the ammo lasts twice as long as on full-power (which makes sense, given "half charge.") This also implies at least two settings on Tanith guns, although there might be more. We can also infer that "half charge" shots are half the power of "full charge" shots (indicating that the earlier calcs for Tanith lasguns could be doubled on a higher setting.)

Its worth noting that we don't know for sure whether the "number of shots" a powerpack si typically noted to be good for (40-50) is on max power or half charge. If max charge, then "half charge" shots could allow for 80-100 shots, while the otehr way around implies that "max charge" would offer 20-25 shots before the pack runs dry. Triplex-pattern lasguns (as mentioned in "Inquisitior" would imply the latter, it shoudl be noted, though hotshots (which can, for long las weapons, offer 20 shots per pack, and calc wise seem more destructive than "max power" shots on the lasguns in the Ghosts novels) would tend to support the former, so it could go either way.

Page 95

- Chaos space marine armor is resistant to sustained firepower from Bragg's assault cannon (possibly factoring for his shitty aim.) Given the above estimated resistance, we can infer safely that CSM armor is resistant to double/triple digit kg*m/s momentum, and double triple digit kilojoules of KE, in broad terms.


Page 96

- sniper lasrifles also make a noticably different sound compared to regular lasguns (a high pitched whine versus the "crack" of regular lasguns)


Page 97

- A Chaos chain fist can pulp (or crush and liquiefy) an armoured Vitrian Dragoon with a "careless flick". i have no idea of how to begin calcing this, but I'm pretty damn sure its a bloody huge number.

Page 97
- Gaunt's Chainsword sliced into the armour of the CSM. Chainswords, of course, aren't guns, so this is harder to quantify. But we shouldn['t be surprised, given that Cain's tried similar in "Traitor's Hand".

Page 97
The rearing thing was struck once, twice... four or five times by carefully placed las shots which tore into it and spun it around. Gaunt somehow knew it was the sniper Larkin who had provided these marksman blasts.

On one knee, the creature rose and raged again, most of its upper armour punctured or shredded, smoke rising and black fluid spilling from the grisly wounds to its face, neck, and chest.
Hotshot blats can, if "placed carefully", penetrate and injure space marines. Hellguns can presumably do so as well. (assuming the Space Marine can stand still enough for such precision fire.)

Page 97
A final, powerful las-blast, close range and full-power, took its head off.
The blast from a Viitrian Dragoon's lasgun takes the head of a CSM "off". This probably qualifies as a "head exploding" example, though some people may argue the context of "taking the head off". Quibbling over the semantics would be rather meaningless, in any case: a single shot could not possibly "take the head off" of a person unless it were in a sustained/slicing mode. We know such modes exist, but their descriptions are quite distinct from this, and does not seem to match up with what is being said. That means that the single blast has to encompass an area wide as the entire neck (say, 15-20 cm in diameter). Such a blast (virtually an explosive effect - ie work heating) is going to also comprise a good portion of the head as well as the neck (if not the whole head, depending on where it hits) - more than half of the head, in fact. So the point of what "take the head off" means is not going to affect the calc by more than a factor of two, at best (And inefificencies and other factors, such as armoring, will eclipse the rest of the calc)

We know from the novel "Harlequin" as well as from comparison of the dimensions of a space marine vs a regular human that their head/body mass should be at least 2-3 times greater than a normal human's. This means the head ought ot weigh in at around 8-15 kg. Assuming cauterization at 300 degrees C (no mention of blood spurting from the neck) and disregarding the neck (which can add at least 1-3 more kilograms to the variable), yields a "max yield" blast of around 7.5 MJ to ~14 megajoules. (plus a few more if we include the neck) Half that if we go with the alternate interpretation to "taking the head off") Of course, its still a conservative calc due to various factors (inefficiency, the effects of armor, etc.)


Page 101

- Meltas have variable settngs: the Ghosts use a melta on the lowest settings to fuse Vitrian armor to an obelisk they are trying to destroy/defeat. This should, of course, be no surprise, since we know lasguns and plasma weapons are all variable setting as well.

Page 111

- (antigrav) suspension field in a Schola used to hold a data-slate upright. Use of grav-tech, especially in miniaturized form, isn't unusual outside the hands of Space Marines, the AM, and the Inquisition.

Page 114

- some large ctiies (or at least the upper-class sections) on planets such as Pyrites have 'low level' energy sheaths (shields or screens) designed for repelling rain (and probalby other weather phenomena.)

Page 126
The wall behind him exploded in a firestorm of light and vaporising bricks. Two fierce blue beams of las fire punched into the room and sliced the man into three distinct sections before he could move.
We learn that the "wall" was destroyed by a "directional limpet mine' (a shaped explosive of some kind) Assuming your average "red' brick being 10 cm thick, and that the hole in the wall is 2 meters wide and 2 meters tall, the energy delivered by said mine is at least ~11 gigajoules if we assume 100% (hundreds of megajoules at the bare ass minimum, thousands more likely.) That's alot of energy for a confined place, of course, but that depends entirely on the kind of explosive and how it delivered the energy. Distancee from the wall isn't known, as well as details about the interior. We do know the man was close enough to Gaunt to hand him a crystal (arm's length away) and Gaunt was close enough to dive back through the doorway once the wall exploded. The man of course dies shortly after the wall blasts in, so any injury he sustained form the blast is moot (and Gaunt is diving away anyhow.)

As for the las-weapons - the obvious detail of interes is the implied "sustained/cutting" mode, aside from teh blue color (of coruse lasfire, like lightsabers can vary in any color of the rainbow).
By itself, the weapons are not quantifiable, but with some inferences we can derive a figure.

We know from the Ghosts' short story in the omnibus that las beams are "finger thick", implying a diameter of a few centimeters. This is supported by later evidence in Ghostmaker (implying area of effect of a few cm at least, due to las fire slicing through the shoulder strap of a lasgun, and the estimated diameter of said straps from other sources, mainly visual) We also know from various sourcecs( mainly the 3rd edition codex, but others like the novel "Legacy") that lasguns will vaporize anything at the point of impact (within the beam's diameter - Legacy actually implies cremation/inceineration, which is at least as energetic as water vaporization but could actually be more.)

Assuming a waist thickness of 15-20 cm and a width (at the shoulders) between 30 and 40 centimeters and the density of flesh being somewhat close to that of water (somewhat less 800-900 kg/m^3 I estimate) and that the beam thickness is at least 2-3 cm (possibly as much as 5 cm), the mass affected is between .8 kg and 2 kg (as high as 3.5 kg if we assume a 5 cm diameter beam).

If we infer vaporization of the water content in the body (70% water) and ignore boiling and cauterization, we can estimate the energgy output of the las weapons as being between 1.26 and 3.15 MJ at least.

If we factor in boiling point (roughly another 270 kilojoules per kg), that's ~1.5 MJ to 3.7 MJ. If we factor in cauterization (and ignore that cauterizing will probably include the area of effect above and below) you can probaby add 1-3 mj to the vaporization figure.

If we go with incineration (which will factor in cauterization), the output will be between 3 and 6 megajoules. (for 5 cm diameters, multiply the low end figures by 2.5)

The quote above implies that the 'slicing' occured" before the man cut apart could react, or that it happened in a fraction of a second. Human reaction times average between .2 and .3 seconds usually - the man was a trained secret agent it seems, despite being described as elderly, so a quarter second is probably not unreasonable (that's average anyhow, especially given age retarding tech in the Imperium) - the energy figures above could therefore be three to five times as great as I estimate.

Moreover, its still conservative given that the evidently beams passed through the man without being stopped and due to inefficiencies. Setting is also unknown.

Page 127
They were big, clad in black, insignia-less combat armour, ,carrying compact, cut-down lasrifles. Adhesion clamps on their knees and forearms showed how they had scaled the outside walls to blow their way in with a directional limpet mine. They surveyed the room, sweepign their green laser tagger beams.
These (well armed) troopers are from Dravere's personal forces we learn later. They're armed with "compact" lasguns (evidently designed for close in work like in buildings) and seem equipped muchi nthe way modern special forces are (up to and including breaching charges and scaling gear.) Just what the "grreen laser tagger beams" represent (IE some sort of targeter or exotic scope like Larkin's custom magictech scope, or just some fancy laser sight) is unknown, but interesting nonetheless.

Page 127
The gun was small, but the odd design clearly marked it as an ancient and priceless specialised weapon. It had a kick like a mule and a roar like a Basilisk.

The first shot surprised Gaunt as much as the two stealth troops and it blew a hatch-sized hole in the wall. The second shot exploded one of the attackers.
Autopistol that apparently packs the recoil and power of a shotcannon/bolter round. Despite being "ancient and priceless", that's an insane amount of firepower. (easily got to be comparable to a grenade, or close to it.) The recoil was nasty (not exactly antimaterial grrade, but possibly close to it) possibly magnum round or higher (10-15 kg*m/s are possible given proper recoil compensation, but still not easy.)

The largest recoil I've heard of would be this monster which is at the stated figures around ~30 kg/ms. Supposedly "managable", but not exactly prcatical on most cases. Consider it a probable upper limit.

In any case, the armor of the troopers does not stand up to that much firepower (it probably penetrated before blowing it apart) and the guy was probably wearing flak or some analogue (carapace would be a bit obvious) suggesting that most falk probably can't stand up to a very high powered (antimaterial rifle) round.

Page 127
the cross blast of three lasguns on rapid-burst tore the top hallway to pieces

....

After a moment or two, the firing stopped..
Assuming rapid burst means "full auto", this suggests an upper limit ROF for these lasguns of of around 900-1200 RPM, assuming "a moment or two" means a couple seconds, and a 40-60 shot pack. Of course, this also assumes the pack was fully drained.
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Page 84

the bombardment has proceeded for twenty-four hours, dropping two or three hsells a second. At this rate, they've expended between ~173,000 and ~260,000 shells, sizes/yields unknown. If we infer yields from the prior examples (between a quarter ton of TNT to tens/hundreds of tons) the total amount of explosive dropped would be between 43 kilotons and 50-200 megatons over a 24 hour time period. That's alot of explosive to expend, no matter how you look at it. (and it hints at a very dangerous and unfriendly war zone, which may give us some indicator of the protective abilities of Imperial Guard gear.)
I realise its been a while since I've read this, but my memory of the bombardment suggests a lot more than 2-3 shells per second. The wall of flames generated was wide enough to prevent the Jantine armour from simply driving round and the Ghosts couldn't move out the way.
Page 94

mention of "needle pattern" lasguns - the sniper variant. "needle" implies these weapons have a narrower, more coherent beam. This would, coupled with the use of hotshot packs we know of, give them extremely good penetration (lots of energy focused on a smaller area) as well as greater range (reduced diffusion/dissiatpion of the beam's energy.)
Needle rifles operate differently. They have a very narrow beam to punch through armour, which is immediately followed by a toxic dart which is whats meant to kill. I don't really think hot shot packs are designed to be used in conjunction with a needle rifle.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Lost Soal wrote: I realise its been a while since I've read this, but my memory of the bombardment suggests a lot more than 2-3 shells per second. The wall of flames generated was wide enough to prevent the Jantine armour from simply driving round and the Ghosts couldn't move out the way.
Maybe. It could be tht that was that particular location or area (it WAS a big battlefront), or maybe that's just the "sustained" bombardment rte (they weren't literally chucking just 2-3 shells a second, ,that's just what it works out to taking into account time between volleys.) I dont think the bombardment was constant in any case (time to reload and whatnot.)

In any event that simply makes the calc conservative, not really a problem IMHO.
Needle rifles operate differently. They have a very narrow beam to punch through armour, which is immediately followed by a toxic dart which is whats meant to kill. I don't really think hot shot packs are designed to be used in conjunction with a needle rifle.
Prior to long-las yeah, but its clarified much later what Larkin is using is a sniper variant lasgun (as put forth in the Imperial Infantryman's uplifting Primer.) different beast entirely. (you forgot to add that the laser had some sor tof targeting/accuracy boosting element, since it supposedly "guided" the target in.)

Needlers change their definition again by Necropolis (some sort of flechette/gauss weapon) and it seems so in Eisenhorn as well (his Glavian pilot's weaponry)

Surprisingly, I am tenatively resurrecting the "needle rifle" idea - some lasguns might be a combined laser/projecitle weapon (like a needlge gun or more accurately a mandiblaster.). The projectile is designed to be vaporized/plasmatized by the las pulse (and the pulse also creates the "holes" we know and love to faciliate grgeater destructive effects in some cases.

Admittedly I mainly worked this out to explain the post-Necropolis Short Story combat example where a lasgun evidently incinerated a guy's brain without seeming to seriously damage his face/head (or the other "similar" examples in later Ghosts literature, or in associated sources.) Since it gets around some of the messy problems area effect "work heating' would imply.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Page 141

- "Hyper-dense silica" domes on an AM transport. No idea what this is supposed to mean (though something similar shows up in Eisenhorn.) Might be indicative of the ability to create extrmeely dense artificial materials.

Page 141
From the shuttle, he'd seen sixteen solid kilometres of grey architecture, like a raked, streamlined cathedral, with the tiny lights of the troop transports flickering in and out of its open belly-mouth. The crenellated surfaces and towers of the mighty Mechanicus ship were rich with bas-relief gargoyles, out of whose wide, fanged mouths the turrets of the sentry guns traversed and swung. Green interior light shone from the thousands of slit windows.
AM vehicle/troop transport (mass conveyance vessel). Sixteen kilometers long. Implied to be heavily armed despite being mainly a transport ship (probably due to its sheer mass - that much volume can allow formidable firepower from even a small percentage of overall mass being devoted to guns.)


Page 141

- Gaunt has a frigate (The Navarre) as his personal flagship. Evidently Some Guardsmans (or at least those with dual ranks) have their own personal ships attached to them, despite the traditional Army/Navy deliniation.


Page 142

- the AM cargo carrier could hold at least nine full regiments (Tanith, four divisions of the Jantine Patricians) and three mechanised battallions, including tanks and transports. Since the thing is probably designed to carry Titans, this should be a no-brainer (probably also meant to carry Skitarri/Tech Guard regiments as well, explaining the availability of accomodations for the Guard.)

this implies the ship ougth to be able to carry many tens or hundreds of thousands of troops, and hundreds (thousands) of vehicles. Not surprising, given what Super-Heavy transports in BFG are reputed to carry and they're almost certainly smaller.

Page 143
In the center of the bay's deck, on a vast platform mechanism of oiled cogs and toothed gears, giant sensorium scopes, aura-imagifiers, and luminosity evluators cycled and turned, regarding the malestrom, charting, cogitating, assessing and transmitting the assembled data via chattering relays and humming crystal stacks to the main bridge eight kilometres away at the top of the Absalom's tallest command spire.
- Description of the sensor apparatus in the location Gaunt is occupying, though it doesnt make much sense to me (And looks predicatably clockwork.)

Page 151
Two las-shots slammed it sideways. Another tight pair broke it open along the rib cage, venting an incandescent halo fo bright psychic energy. A fifth shot to the head dropped the thing like it had been struck in the ear with a sledghammer.
- the shape was "charred and smouldering", although this may be due to the fact it had supposedly "self ignited." and that the taget is filled with psychic energy being controlled by a psychic Inquisitor, this may not mean much. It did have fairly significant momentum (due to explosive vaporization of water/body mass having a reaction-drive like effect.) No idea how to measure the force generated by breaking bone (though the fact las-weapons CAN break bone indicates vaporization and significant shock/concussive effects.) No bleeding though indicates cauterization (Though the psychic fire energy may do this too), and the hole is implied fairly large (Again hard to gauge, and the psychic effect is hard to measure.)

If we assume "a tight pair" of shots "breaking it open" implies it blasted part of the chest/ribcage open (assume ~30 cm diameter wound and ~10-15 cm deep) suggests 6-9 kg of mass affected. Assuming boiling and/or cauterization occurs (268 kilojoules/kg and ~900 kilojoules/kg assuming 300C cauterization temp) means between .8 and 1.2 MJ per shot for "boiling" and 2.7 to 4 megajoules per shot for "cauterization".


page 152
Six Imperial Navy troopers in fibre-weave shipboard armour and low brimmed helmets exited in a pack and dropped to their knees, covering the trio with compact stubguns. One barked curt orders into his helmet vox-link.
- description of naval troopers (armsman) gear. Probably not NavSec as described in Eisenhorn, but more akin to the "Regular" Guard (NavSec seems to be the Naval equivalent of stormtroopers.) No idea what "fibre weave" is, unless its kevlar like (or just the Navy version of flak. Maybe its better for all we know.) Instead of shotguns they carry "stubguns"


Page 153
Six stubgun muzzles swung their attention directly at him. The detail's weapons were short-line, pump action models designed for shipboard use.

The glass shards and wire twists wadded into each shell would roar out in a tightly packed cone of micro-shrapnel, entirely capable of shredding a man at close range. But unlike a lasgun or bolter, tehre was no danger of them puncturing the outer hull.
Ammo for the "stubguns" Curiously the weapons are described as "stub-guns" despite the fact they sound like shotguns (stubbers are slug weapons, usually large bore like .50 cal, after all.)
"Shortt-line" probably means that the weapons have very short barrels, making them compact weaposn for the sorts of close-in work aboard starship.

Also, instead of shot, they seem to use some flechette-like shrapnel effect, Sounds nasty against unaroured oppnents (but would probably do fuck all against carapace or power armour.)


Page 173

- mention of a "blunt" - someone without psyker ability (but not a blank/pariah/untouchable, who is immune to psyker and warp powers, as well as daemonic possession.)


Page 185

- the Captain of the Absalom is mind-linked into his ship and largely immobile at 300 kilos mass. His metabolism is slowed and lifespan prolonged. He uses suspensor fields to hold up devices like data slates.


Page 186
The conveyance vessels of the Adeptus Mechanicus were not like the ships of the Imperial Navy. Immeasurably older and often much larger, they had been made to carry the engines of war from Mars to wherever they were needed.
the 16 km long AM "conveyance" vessels are larger than a great many Naval ships (warships presumably.) Howver, it DOES imply the Navy has some vessels of comparable size/mass, thugh whether they are transports or warships are unknown, nor are the numbers or ratios. If they're warships, they're bound to be important flagships (and pack a fuckload of firepower.)

Page 187-188:

- The AM ship captain has astropathic/psychic "truth fields" which allow him to evidently gauge the turth or deceit in a person, although they evidently are not totally foolproof. Either the AM has means of artificially replicating psyker capabilities (which would be consistent with Chaos being able to influence or corrupt mechanicals like the Iron Men or Traitor vehicles and Titans.) or the AM can make psykers into servitors (and the "truth fields" are just psyker heads/brains cut off and wired into mechancial devicees.)


Page 195
Guns! A battered old exotic bolt-action rifle with a long muzzle and ornately decorated stock, and a worn but servicable pump stubgun with a bandolier of shells. Neither were regular issue Guard standard-pattern gear.
"bolt action" rifles are considered exotic, and a "pump stubgun" - the fact they aren't "stnadarnd pattern gear" would seem to imply they are more primitive/inferior than REgular Guard equipment (not surprising.)
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Post by Shroom Man 777 »

A truth field could just be an old fashioned remote lie detector, for all we know.
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:A truth field could just be an old fashioned remote lie detector, for all we know.
well that might be part of it, but on page 187 they use the explicit term "psychic" and on page 188 they mention "astropathic", so it seems like its a bit more than that (he can read the emotional states and get some vague impression of their feelings and thoughts, though its clearly interpreteive, because Gaunt is able to fool the Captain.)


Another note I forgot to add in this: This Adeptus Mechanicus ship seems to be crewed and run by the Navy. This seems unusual, since other AM ships seem to be run mainly by Techpriests and servitors and other servants (and secured by Tech Guard/Skitarii.) Like the ships in "DArk Adeptus" and "Soul Drinkers."
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Another short update, about 2/3 of the way through the book now. Still got some good stuff coming up though.

Page 209

- Chainswords are much heavier than regular swords (ten times heavier than a duelling sword), and duels involving chainswords rely on strength, momentum, and the use of reversal on the chain direction for deflection and opening spaces. I suppose i could have posted the quote, but the summary works fine here.

It also hints at some above-average strength for most chainsword duellists. according to this link a rapier (a fairly light sword, as things go that I understand) weighs about 2 pounds. This means a chainsword weighs in at a hefty 20 pounds.

By contrast, note that real life "two handed" swords like the claymore and the Zweihander weighed only about 2-3 kg tops (7 kg for the "ceremonial' zweihanders.) Which is several times the estimate above. Broadswords also could weigh about a kilogram or so, I believe.

If we go with something more for practice duelling, there's the Epee here which can weigh between 1/3 of a kg and 3/4 of a kg. The "weight" used is much less, but its still a very heavy weapon (3-7 kg now, instead of 10+ kg)

Bear in mind also these are just the officers - Gaunt and Dercius, that is. Regular troops (examples such as Corbec or of course Bragg) would in many cases be stronger (especially among heavy regiments.)

Page 218

- Dravere's Leviathan command vehicle is the size of a "small city". I dont know if this is a "typical" example or if it varies from command to command (Generals I suppose would command bigger Leviathans than a Colonel or something, though.)

Page 219

- mention of some planets where "flattening" of an enemy force by orbital bombardment is preferred to invasion. Contrasting with Fortis Binary, and the comments in this novel (Dravere didn't wish to bombard because he was looking for the STC we learn about later), this tends to indicate that the Guard is only deployed offensively when there is something important (IE retaking a planet without totally demolishing its factories and industry, or a Agri world where excessive bombardment can mess with the ecosystem.)

This probably does not refer to exterminatus per se, since that tends to be a more extreme incident. It probably is a more "mundane" extinction level event (any Naval warship possesses enough firepower to render a planet uninhabitable in fairly short order without the thoroughness of destruction Exterminatus usually entails. This is probably more along the lines of the 1e8-1e9 megaton threshold, rather than outright 'sterilizing" or "destroy trace of life and biosphere" on the planet.)

Page 220

- Dravere thinks that "few Imperial commanders" could supervise the landing of a force of his size (40,000 vehicles and at least 30-40,000 infantry) divided among three separate targets, in less than a day, the way he had. Immediate examples don't come to mind, but I'm pretty sure he's wrong.

Page 221

- Dravere's Leviathan appears to afford him very rapid reception and processing of information from his units, as well as the rapid dissemination of orders (The hololith map updates rapidly as reports came in, as well as the Guard and Naval officers with "codifiers and artificiers" assigned to process, analyze, and chart the reports and movements) as well as the ability to rapidly issue orders on the basis of that data. (This seems consistent with prior descriptions of the Leviathan, particularily in the early editions of Epic 40K.)

It also does point to a fairly integrated level of communications and information sharing, which tends to fly in the face of "Napoleonic fire a salvo and charge" tactics usually attributed to the Guard (though there are regiments certainly capable of such tactics as well.)
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Connor MacLeod wrote:well that might be part of it, but on page 187 they use the explicit term "psychic" and on page 188 they mention "astropathic", so it seems like its a bit more than that (he can read the emotional states and get some vague impression of their feelings and thoughts, though its clearly interpreteive, because Gaunt is able to fool the Captain.)
The Thorian sourcebook has an Inquisitor (Antigonus Balorodin) with precisely zero psychic ability who developed a special helmet which allowed him to interface with an Eldar soulstone, using mind-impulse technology. The captain may have done something like that, getting feedback directly from, as you suggested, a psyker weird into machinery (like, unsurprisingly, an astropath).
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Page 227
a storm of autocannon rounds whipped up the slope, exploding bracken into dust, spitting up soil and punching him into four or five bloody parts. At the cute, other weapon placements in the steppe alcoves of the facing fliff opened fire, raining las-fire , bullets, ,and curls of plasma down at the Ghosts.

The answering fire laced a spider's web of las-light, tracer lines, and firewash between the sides of the valley.
Effects of autocannon fire on the body. Messy to say the least. I presume these to be the earlier "man portable" versions rather than vehicle mounted ones.

Page 229
A cannon round punched through the turret and exploded Sendak and his gunner. The severed vox-horn clattered across the deck, still clutched by the Marshal's severed hand. A second later, the tank flipped over as a frag-rocket blew out its starboard track, skirt and wheelbase. As it landed, turret down, in the mud, it detonated from within, blowing apart the Leman Russ next to it.
I'm not totally sure what it takes for a cannon round to "explode" two humans (much less asfter breaching the armour) Flipping a 60+ ton tank over (by a frag grenade no less) with minimal damage is indicative of rather extreme structural durability, though.

Page 234
Lord General Dravere didn't want to hear. HE was still staring at the repeater plates which hung in front of him, showing the total, desperate carnage that had befallen Marshal Sendak's advance on Target Secundus. Even now, plates were fizzing out to blankess or growing dim and fading.
Dravere's repeater plates inside his Leviathan evidently were feeding him data of some sort from Sendak and the other forces, (much as is implied in other sources.) This is just one example we see of the data/sensor transfer abilities between disparate units of the Guard.


Page 235
Death flurried down over the Tanith ranks from the stepped arches of the necropolis. A blizzard of las-shot showered down, along with the arcing stings of arcane electircal weapons.


"arcane electrical weapons" - your guess is as good as mine. Lightning or particle beams, perhaps?

Page 236
- a bulb of dull metal with forward-pointing overlaid leaves of razor-sharp alloy. The blackened, fused remains of a glass cartridge at the base showed its method of propulsion. Shot from simple tube-launchers, ,Corbec decided, the propellant ignited as the firing pin shattered the glass capsule. He turned it over in one hand, protected by the edge of his stealth cape. Evil and ingenious, the barb's leaves were scored to ease impact-shatter - either agianst a hard surface to produce a cloud of shrapnel, or against bone as it chewed through tissue to effect the worst wounds possible. The leaves were slightly spiralled too, suggesting that the launcher's rifling set them spinning as they fired.
the previous page describes men hit by the barbs as "rupturing" and "coming aparrt." Sounds alot like a primitve bolter or a weapons imilar to a grgenade launcher. Or a shotcannon or the more insane autogun/shotgun ammo.

Page 236

- one of the vox-set officers is "processing and relaying" battle reports from other units.

Page 237
Corbec grabbed the slate and studied the scrolling text Mahan was direct-receiving from High Command. There were flickering, indistinct images captured from Sendak's last transmission. He saw the towers erupt into life, laying down their destructive fences, saw the forces fo the enemy manifest on the tower tops.
information from Sendak's massacre (from above) is relayed to the Ghosts (presumably via Dravere's comamnd vehicle.) The vox operator's device must also have some visual inputs as well (or it just relays it to data slates, like it does in other novels like the Cain novels.)

Page 241

- a Guard issue lamp pack has a power source that lasts for six hundred hours. This is for a lamp pack that attaches to the front of a barrel, and that sort of lifetime is quite substantial (modern ones last for around a couple of hours continuous use.), implying that Imperium power cell/battery energy storage densities are much higher (orders of magnitude higher?) than what we are likely capable of. here if you're curious for examples. Other examples can be found here and
here

If we were to infer from this and apply it to lasgun packs... according to atomic rockets site here the probable (volume) energy density for a "realistic" laser would be ~1.2 kilojoules per cubic centimeter. Deriving frorm an estimate of powerpack size (5 cm wide, 10cm long, 15 cm tall) - the battery would be around 900 kj. Assming 100x difference estimated above thats around 90 MJ per powerpack. Assuming between 40-60 shots per pack (low setting), this leads to an output of a couple mJ per shot (1-3, depending on the variables) It coudl also be several times higher easily, and some powerpacks are largeR (some are like the baanna clips like you see on AK-47s, which would be of course bigger batteries.)

Page 250

- A Guardsman loses his knee to a las-blast. Assuming 10-15 cm diameter and ~10 cm thickness, it comes out to about 1-1.5 kg for the "knee. This comes out to around .92 - 1.38 megajoules roughly per shot.

Page 251

- Gaunt retrieves "plasma ammo packs" from the defeated Chaos cultists, but evidently does not have a plasma weapon of any kind. Are these some sorrt of specialized lasgun pack?

Page 258

- Corbec is carrying an intermediate-scale Vox-caster device that reads message sheets (or "foils") and then "assembles" it before sending it off. This implies a certain (low level) degree of automation in the device (not particularily advanced, but still automation nonetheless. Some form of encryption I would imagine.)
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Connor MacLeod wrote:"arcane electrical weapons" - your guess is as good as mine. Lightning or particle beams, perhaps?
Considering that it's described as an 'electrical' weapon, it's probably similar to the Xenarch death-arc in the Inquisitor rule book. I doubt that the weapons are of Xenarch make (they're suggested to be rare and exotic). I'm pretty sure the implication is they create discharges of electricity (lots of them at once), as opposed to being a beam of some kind.
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Post by Feil »

If a bolter had enough energy stored to literally vaporize someone's head, it would have to carry an explosive charge equivalent to 2.5kg TNT (rough lower limit). This is considerably more powerful than a modern concussion grenade, and yet the effects of bolt shell explosions are so slight that a bolter can be fired at a target just a few meters away with no risk to the shooter.

Given that bolters (and lasguns) do damage kinetically, not thermally, one would assume that when Abnett says one vaporized something, he means "reduced to fleshmist", not "imparted with at at least 540 calories per gram". (Lasguns release energy fast enough that the small initial explosion of vaporized stuff causes kinetic damage to the target far exceeding the amount of the target actually vaporized, despite the fact that they are nominally thermal weapons.) Unfortunately, that's a more difficult thing to calculate, but such is life.
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

Ford Prefect wrote: Considering that it's described as an 'electrical' weapon, it's probably similar to the Xenarch death-arc in the Inquisitor rule book. I doubt that the weapons are of Xenarch make (they're suggested to be rare and exotic). I'm pretty sure the implication is they create discharges of electricity (lots of them at once), as opposed to being a beam of some kind.
It's worth noting that the fluff on the death arc is that while the principle of the weapon is well understood by the Adeptus Mechanicus, the reason their isn't a human equivalent is the general inability to make capacitors equal in performance to those of the Xenarch.
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Post by Eleas »

Connor MacLeod wrote: It also hints at some above-average strength for most chainsword duellists. according to this link a rapier (a fairly light sword, as things go that I understand) weighs about 2 pounds. This means a chainsword weighs in at a hefty 20 pounds.

By contrast, note that real life "two handed" swords like the claymore and the Zweihander weighed only about 2-3 kg tops (7 kg for the "ceremonial' zweihanders.) Which is several times the estimate above. Broadswords also could weigh about a kilogram or so, I believe.
Your numbers seem essentially to pan out. Björn Hellqvist, a well-known authority on the subject (as collector and importer of swords) states, the translation being my own,
Björn Hellqvist wrote:Myth 1: The medieval sword weighed in at several kilos and was unwieldly.
This myth arose and flourished in Hollywood movies, fantasy novels, role playing games and - sadly - even in certain academic texts. In point of fact, most one-handed swords weighed about 0,9 to 1,3 kg, while the largest twohanders could weigh around 3,0 - 4,5 kilograms. The swords often had exquisite balancing and fine qualities in regards to handling. It really says itself - why use something that cannot be swung without impediment and that tires the user? Remember that the next time you watch a duel in some middle ages flick - the actors are often instructed to make the sword appear heavier than they really are to evoke the illusion of the thing being more heroic. The truth is that they use blades of aluminum, glass fiber or rubber!
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Post by Ford Prefect »

Imperial Overlord wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote: Considering that it's described as an 'electrical' weapon, it's probably similar to the Xenarch death-arc in the Inquisitor rule book. I doubt that the weapons are of Xenarch make (they're suggested to be rare and exotic). I'm pretty sure the implication is they create discharges of electricity (lots of them at once), as opposed to being a beam of some kind.
It's worth noting that the fluff on the death arc is that while the principle of the weapon is well understood by the Adeptus Mechanicus, the reason their isn't a human equivalent is the general inability to make capacitors equal in performance to those of the Xenarch.
Which, based on the revelation the Imperial battery tech is fucking ungodly, is very impressive. The text says 'far beyond anything the Adeptus Mechanicus can manufacture'.
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Post by Adrian Laguna »

Connor MacLeod wrote:Page 127
They were big, clad in black, insignia-less combat armour, ,carrying compact, cut-down lasrifles. Adhesion clamps on their knees and forearms showed how they had scaled the outside walls to blow their way in with a directional limpet mine. They surveyed the room, sweepign their green laser tagger beams.
These (well armed) troopers are from Dravere's personal forces we learn later. They're armed with "compact" lasguns (evidently designed for close in work like in buildings) and seem equipped muchi nthe way modern special forces are (up to and including breaching charges and scaling gear.) Just what the "grreen laser tagger beams" represent (IE some sort of targeter or exotic scope like Larkin's custom magictech scope, or just some fancy laser sight) is unknown, but interesting nonetheless.
In probability the "tagger beams" are just green laser pointers. It makes sense for a commando team equipped for close quarters work, since fights are fast and furious while close-in there's rarely time to use the weapon's sights, while a laser pointer allows for accurate "point and shoot". Why they would choose the color green, it's probably easier to see against the type of uniforms worn by their enemies and the environment they're in (Chaos loves red clothing, and blue easily gets lost in the gray of urban combat).
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Adrian Laguna wrote:In probability the "tagger beams" are just green laser pointers. It makes sense for a commando team equipped for close quarters work, since fights are fast and furious while close-in there's rarely time to use the weapon's sights, while a laser pointer allows for accurate "point and shoot". Why they would choose the color green, it's probably easier to see against the type of uniforms worn by their enemies and the environment they're in (Chaos loves red clothing, and blue easily gets lost in the gray of urban combat).
That's probably the most likely, being the simplest answer, although I'm still retaining the idea that they're really the "truth beams" like on Larkin's scope. :D
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Feil wrote:If a bolter had enough energy stored to literally vaporize someone's head, it would have to carry an explosive charge equivalent to 2.5kg TNT (rough lower limit). This is considerably more powerful than a modern concussion grenade, and yet the effects of bolt shell explosions are so slight that a bolter can be fired at a target just a few meters away with no risk to the shooter.
1 - You're assuming that the "Vaporization" comes from an exploding bolt. While they no doubt have some sort of "exploding" bolt that might be MJ range (say a couple MJ) this is largely specualtion . WE dont know what KIND of round did it. It might be something more akin to a meltabomb or a krak-stype explosive, which we know can have extremely thermal effects with little to no side effect.

Moreover, not all bolter ammo is the same. some will blow torsos apart messily, some will only punch large (fist sized or head sized) holes in the target without blowing it apart explosively, and some.. vaporize large parts of the body.

2 - The body in question will act greatly to muffle/dampen the effects. A receent Mythbusters demonstrated (for example) that a human throwing themselves on a hand grenade can do much to lessen its lethality. This can be further lessened if a bolter shell has minimal fragmentation/shrapnel effects and relies more on shock/concussive effects.

3 - most people firing bolters tend to be armoured, especially bloody Space marines. I doubt fragments will harm them (and you don't care about collateral damage to the enemy -thats an advantage.

4 - as we learn later, they have grenades that can vaporize/incinerate humans. This is not a massive leap between the two.
Given that bolters (and lasguns) do damage kinetically, not thermally, one would assume that when Abnett says one vaporized something, he means "reduced to fleshmist", not "imparted with at at least 540 calories per gram".
Uh, no. I did a bloody essay on this way back.

The long and short of it is, lasguns DO vaporize (3rd edition codex rules) - its how they create the kinetic effects. Its canon in NUMEROUS sources (including this same book) that they cauterize, which is a THERMAL effect. It is also flat out stated in the Inquisition core rules that lasguns do damage via heat and kinetic (tissue damage and burning.)

Bolters, as I said, can vary depending on the ammo (or author.) but they do have incendiaries so saying they can't "burn" or have thermal damage effects is pretty damn silly.
(Lasguns release energy fast enough that the small initial explosion of vaporized stuff causes kinetic damage to the target far exceeding the amount of the target actually vaporized, despite the fact that they are nominally thermal weapons.) Unfortunately, that's a more difficult thing to calculate, but such is life.
Again, you need to read the bloody essay. Yes, you can cause damage with a laser (or an explosive) without significant thermal damage accompanying it, but you're rather blatently ignoring the NUMEROUS cauterization referencecs in fluff (nevermind what I said above) which flat OUT demonstrate that lasguns have extensive thermal effects.

The way you describe it would create large, ragged wounds that would bleed as badly (if not moreso) than a bullet wound. Again I think I've made it rather clear that I am bloody aware of this when I'm doing these calcs.

edit: as a further (and amusi8ng) side note, large scale thermal effects (including not-insignificant degrees of vaporization of the body) also probably explain the odd "knockdown" properites of las weapons (that being the explosive vaporization of tissue creating a reaction-drive like effect that can push a person back)
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Post by Connor MacLeod »

Okay time to bring this bad boy home. Last official entry in the "First and Only" thread. enjoy





Page 259

- Jantine lasguns are capable of delivering "double burst" shots. 1000 Jantine deliver fifteen hundred shots every twenty seconds.

Page 259
The warrior-caste of Jant were heavy troops, their silver and purple combat armour made for assault, rather than speed or stealth. They wre storm-troopers, not skirmishers; the Tanith were the light, ,agile, stealthy ones.
The jantine are defined as "storm troopers", with "heavy armour" as heavy troops, also with "assault" armour (unlike the tanith.) Its not clear whether this is meant to imply the Jantine are one of those "storm trooper" regiments form the 2nd edition IG codex, or if its just a general term for heavy infantry and not the "formal" storm troopers (the ones with carapace and hellguns.)

Page 260
Blane had fought the temptation to return fire when the Jantine first addressed them. They had nothing to match the range of the Jantine heavy weapons and Blane told himself that the las-fire fusillade was as much a psychological threat as anything/
I'm not sure if by "Heavy weapons" he is referring to lasguns here (which might be true if they are storm troops - but other heavy infatnry, like the Balurians in Grey Knights also have more powerful lasguns.) or it might refer to weapons like meltaguns and rocket/grenade launchers. Or possibly both.

Page 260

- Blane orders his men (not for the first time) to hold fire and wait for the range. Tanith guns at this point are set for single shot.


Page 260

- The Jantine take at least ten minutes (and twenty seconds, given before) to advance to within one hundred meters of the Tanith positions. Average walking speed for a human is about 5-6 km/hr. While the advance was fairly steady (two different enfolding lines alternating.) We can probably assume they alternated their advance, so maybe about half the time was spent walking (300 seconds) Given that, we can assume a minimum range for the lasguns of at least 500-600 meters. If we assume at least 10 minutes (disgregarding the fact they were likely firing for at least several more minutes given the "fifteen hudred shots every twenty seconds), we can infer a range of around 1-1.5 km, potentially.

This is probably VERY conservative a range estimate for a number of reasons, least of all that moving while firing is not going to be very accuate, and doing so is bound to slow the rate of movement. It also assumes they take absolutely no cover, which is not the case (it is indicated they are taking cover). Coupling that with the "cover" created by the rockets and artillery (craters) to cover their advance, and assuming 1-2 km weapons range is, under those circumstances, quite plausible.

the "heavy weapons" mentioned seem to be largely grenade and rocket launchers, and along with the mortars are being used to cover the advance, it seems likely they have an effective range of at least several km as well.

Page 260

- The Jantine use light mortars ("field guns - light calibre field shells and some rocket propelled grenades.) to dig out craters/foxholes for the Jantine infantry to advance into. This implies craters at least several meters wide and at least a meter or more deep. Such cratering probably requires at least a few kilos of TNT, minimum. (say 8 kilos or so). This is probably conservative, though, since the rocket propelled grgenades they are using are also creating such craters.


Page 261
Even firing off a well-placed round every six seconds, and scoring a kill one out of four shots, Blane felt they were helpless
We might term this "marksman rate of fire" - the rate of fire the Tanith can sustain in order to place accuate fire on the enemy. Given the probability that the Jantine are heavily armoured (see the latter battle aginst the Dragoons) they probably needed precision fire to take them down.

It also gives a good estimate of accuracy (25% accuracy) evidently being good for this kind of rate of fire. Given the probability for "precise hits" to take out the heavily armoured Jantine, we might consider this quite good for marskman regiments.

Page 261
After a full thirty minutes of fire exhcange, the Patricians charged.
Both Tanith and PAtricians have enough powerpacks for a thirty minute engagement. Assuming 1 shot every 6 seconds for the Tanith (and 1 every 12 for Jantine) this means 300 shots for the Tanith (and 150 fo the Jantine) And this doesn't neccesarily mean they ran "out" of ammo yet. (It also implies that the powerpacks are probably around 50-60 shots per pack.)


Page 262

- again mention of a "double shot" mode on the Jantine lasguns. This is closer to the "220 rPM" rate of fire from the Imperial Infantryman uplifting primer, but it might not be "full auto" either. Or its possible the jantine lasguns go for lower rate of fire but much greater "per shot" output.

Page 262
But they were light troops, dressed in thin fabrics, utterly unmatching the physical strength and resilience of his hard-armoured Jantine.
"Hard armoured" Jantine. This might imply carapace (as does the storm-trooper designation), but it might also just be flak with some hard shell elements (like some regiments use, such as the Cadians.) Curiously, the Tanith do not seem to be armoured much (if at all.) It is also possible it might just be partial carapace (IE chestplates or helmets.)

It is also implied the Jantine being heavy infantry/storm troopers, are tougher and stronger than other Guardsman.

Page 263

- a las shot (jantine) takes the top of the head off of a ghost. Might imply high KJ/low MJ range,but hard to geuss at here short of figuring cauterization and a sizeable hole. (say 1-1.5 kg affected)

Page 271

- las fire from Ghost lasguns were exploding "through plastic body suits and masked visors" Masked helms, though I'm not sure if "plastic" is to bod armour.

Page 272

- Jantine Patrician body armour has full helemnts with visors that have diamond-shaped eyeslits, and "blast cowls". Presumably this offers some NBC protection as well.

Page 271-272

- the Jantine are about two kilometers away from the Ghosts, but they prepare and launch their attack from this distance. The idea that they intend to run or march across two kilometers with weapns ready and in heavy armor (a feat that would take twenty minutes to accomplish) is kind of silly. Advancing while firing (or engaging) at least after a couple minutes of advancing seems more likely (and is consistent with the other known incidents of range and such.), especially given the implied estimate on weapons range above.


Page 274

- the Dragoons attack the Jantine, with their lasguns set for maximum discharge. The reason being that the Jantine have "notoriously thick armour", implying that the Jantine Body armor can at least stop lower-powered lasblasts. No idea if this refers to mere flak, carapace, or a combination thereof., however.

It does indicate that Guard armour is highly variable in quality, regardless.

Page 275
His armoured torso pulverised by Zogat's marksmanship, Brochuss toppled into the flecked ica sand of the valley floor...
Brochuss is a rather burly man. Assuming ~.4 meters across the shoulders, .3 meters tall for his "torso, and about .2 meters thick, his body might mass around 20-25 kilos at least (probably closer to 30-35.) Of course, "pulverizing" is not neccesarily a purely thermal event (its probably pulverized due to shock/blast effects from lasgun vaporiztion). However, cauterization is a common effect, and we can naturally assume it occurs here. Assuming 300C cauterization, the energy input could vary between 18.5 MJ and ~33 MJ.

There are, however, some unknowns. We don't know how many shots we required (one or two was implied, but it could hav ebeen a full-auto burst.) Moreover its unlikely that the torso was FULLY cauterized, but most of it probably was (it would be a pretty damn big hole, and he's obviously not gushing out huge amounts of blood - the only other possiblitiy is that it all was vaporized, which is only going to increase the value.) On the other hand, this is AFTEr it gets through armour (which is supposed to be, as mentioned, tough to breach as well), so that tends to incrase the calc (probably quite dramatically.)

We can probably safely say that this represents the minimum amount of energy for a full-auto blast from a Vitriian lasgun on full power, though. (double digit MJ easily.)


Page 275

- Gaunt switches to full auto and rapidly depletes his lasgun's power pack. Its not known how many shots before this, but it does imply (as the Cain novels do) that lasguns rapidly run out of ammo on sustained rapid fire, which would fit with the "machien gun" like bursts implied in early 1st and 2nd edition sourcs (As well as the high rates of fire from the Grey Knights and soul Drinkers novels.)

Page 277
Gaunt slipped his data-slate out of his pocket and thought to consult his portable geo-compass
Just a compass designed for use on multiple planets, or possibly GPS inside the data-slate? You decide. Note, though it does indicate dataslates are quie versatile.

Page 278

- "storm shields" exist that are force screens (familiar enough to Guardsmen, and known to possibly be in the hands of enemy. or other devices.) This implies the existence of "field' technologies possibly in the ground combat scale (we learn of this again anyhow in "guns of Tanith" and "straight silver", but its worth noting here.)


Page 283
A standard Template Constructor. Intact.

The secrets of originating technology had been lost to mankind for so long. Sinc ethe Dark Ages, the Imperium, even the Adeptus Mechanicus, could only manufacture things they had learned by recovering the processes of the ancient STC systems. From scraps and remnants of shattered STC systems on a thousand dead worlds, the Imperium had slowly relearned the secrets of construction, of tanks and machines and laser weapons. Every last fragment was priceless.

To find a dedicated Constructor intact was a find made once a generation, a find from which the entire Imperium benefited.
Honestly, I don't have much to add here. The quote indicates that much of the Imperium's technology is based on recovery and reverse-engineering of STC tech (or STC tech they could piece together from remains). Intact STCs (or at least ones that can build shit) are virtually unknown (or if they are, the Adeptus Mechancius ain't sharing the knowledge. Big surprise.)

Page 283
The Men of Iron. A rumour so old it was a myth, and myth from the oldest times, before the Age of Strife, from the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind had reached a state of glory as the masters of a techno-automatic Empire, the race that had perfected the Standard Template Construct. They created the Men of Iron, mechanical beings of power and sentience but no human soul. Heretical devices in the eyes of the Imperium. War with the self-aware Men of Iron had led to the fall of that distant Empire and, if the old, deply arcane records Heldane had been privy to were correct, that was why the Imperium had outlawed any soulless mechanical intelligence. But as servants, implacable warriors - what could not be achieved with the Men of Iron at your side?
Robots. In modern era 40K, the "Men of Iron" have been replaced by servitors it woudl seem, but its likely the AM still fiddles around with robots of some form, given all the other automation and machine spirits they employ. Not that its neccesarily a huge issue or problem, since there's probably very little difference between a big combat servitor and a robot.

Page 284-285
"Sixty years ago on Geyluss Auspix, a ratwater world a long way from nothing in Plegio Sutarnus, a team of Imperial scouts found an intact STC in the ruins of a pyramid city in a jungle basin. Intact. You know what it made? It was the Standard Template Constructor for a type of steel blade, an alloy of folded steel composite that was sharper and lighter and tougher than anything we've had before. Thirty whole Chapters of the great Astartes are now using blades of the new pattern. The scouts became heroes. I believe each was given a world of his own. It was regarded as the greatest technological advance of the century, the greatest discovery, the most perfect and valuable STC recovery in living memory"
Make of it what you will, but its an interesting passage nonetheless.


Page 286
"There is no greater heresy than the thinking machines of the Iron Age. Would you unleash such a heresy again? Would you trust these... things not to turn on us as they did before? It is the oldest of laws. Mankind must never again place his fate in the hands of his creations, no matter how clever. I trust flesh and blood, not iron.
This may sound overly dramatic and an idiotic adherence to dogma (it kinda is) but given the whole "robots turning against mentors" and the "robots being corrupted by chaos" we see shortly, I'm not bloody surprised. Mock the Imperium all you want for taking this tack, but its probably he best way to deal with it in a universe as fucked up as the 40K one is.


Page 289
The buzzing, horribly slow round crossed the bright space of the Edicule and hit Fereyd's face on the bridge of the nose. Eveything of Imperial Tactician Wheyland above the sternum explosively evaporated in a mist of blood and bone chips.
Those buzz thingies basically "vaporize" (evaporate, but it means the same thing) the head and upper chest of a human male. That comes out to probably around 7-10 kilos affected. 5-7 kg of water vaporized.. 12 to 17.5 MJ. In practice these weapons seem to be a sort of primitive bolter or grenade wepaon, so you might be able to make a comparison.


Page 292

- Inquisitor Heldane's death unleashed enough psychic energy to vaporise a leviathan (or rahter "blew it aparrt atom from atom") That's almost certainly nuclear-scale destruction Amusing idea that. Stick an active psyker in a bomb shell and drop em on an enemy, with explosive results upon death and impact.

Page 293

- The STC for the Iron Men produces another one, but this one is grossly malformed and corrupted (Chaos influence, no doubt, as postulated prior in the book.) Again, small wonder they don't fuck around much with machinery or let other peopel do it save the AM (even if the AM are fucking morons and bastards.) Chaos Titans are bad enough.

This does lead to an interesting question . Could other universe's computers be as easily corrupted? Hard to tell. The Tau don't seem to have this problem as readily, but the Tau also don't seem to make as extensive use of psyker-related technologies as the Imperium (Mind impulse links, for example.) It is possible that the usage of such devicse is what faciliates the ease of corruption with Imperial machines or technology.

Though, of course, we know Chaos can infect/infest/corrupt inert matter as readily as living beings, so iot is certainly still possible for them to do it. Its merely a matter of degree.


Page 294

- lasgun shots deflect off of the "reflective carapace" of the Iron men - except for the "kinetic force" of the shots. This might imply momentum, but the energy output woudl be absurd. Two othyer possibilities exist:

1. - the las shots explosively vaporize part of the carapace, which causes a reaction effect that is the "kinetic forcee" described.

2 - there is a physical/kinetic weapon component to the beam, much like the early-edition "needle sniper rifles" (which may be what is meant earlier by such weapons being described as someone suggested.) or like Eldar mandiblasters, and htat may provide the "kinetic force." I've certainly hypothesized before that such weapons may exist, and may be used to create the "kill a person but leave only a neat hole" type wounds we sometimes see in the Ghosts novels (like the post-Necropolis short story.)

Page 294
The new-born's massive forelimb had grgown, articulating out on extending metallic callipers, forming new pistons and extruded pulleys as it morphed its mechanical structure.
Sort of like Necron living metal (although probably less sophisticated. I'm sure Necronlord could point out to me numerous ways it is NOT like it as well.. but I don't relaly care.) Again, good reason why you REALLY don't want Chaos fucking around with your tech base.

Page 295

- Mkoll's rifle holds at least a dozen shots.
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