Autism: Your opinion on it

[Cairber]

I admit that I do not know a lot about autism, but there are three children in our playgroup that have been diagnosed.

When you talk about "staying away" from alternative therapies, Boyish-Tigerlilly, would something like chelaton therapy (I may mispell that, I have only ever talked to them about it, never researched it) be included there? I don't know what it is exactly, but they say they use it to get all of the toxins and things out of the kids to see if that helps. And how exactly does it help, if it does?

[Superman]

Autistics have incredibly POOR social skills, in general, as well as relational and spatial thinking, but can be incredibly gifted in aspects of memory, lexia, and mathematics.

What are the psychopaths like in comparison, apart from being chronic arseholes?

In the psychiatric world, you're almost talking about apples and oranges. In the United States, what you're referring to is called, "Anti Social Personality Disorder" according to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It's characterized by continual antisocial, irresponsible, or criminal acts. These people usually have no feelings of guilt, fail to make any type of life plan, habitually lie, etc. In children, this is known as Conduct Disorder.

Antisocial types may be charming. They may often get what they want and find it easy to take advantage of people who are easily taken advantage of. This disorder is probably also mostly psychodynamic in origin, meaning that these people are most likely survivors of abuse at the hands of their caregivers.

Autism, on the other hand, is classified as what's called a pervasive developmental disorder. These have to do with delays in the development of functioning. People diagnosed with autism might have problems relating to people, understanding language, have odd movements or behaviors, etc. Autistic children won't show the usual relatedness to their parents and other people.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

I admit that I do not know a lot about autism, but there are three children in our playgroup that have been diagnosed.

When you talk about "staying away" from alternative therapies, Boyish-Tigerlilly, would something like chelaton therapy (I may mispell that, I have only ever talked to them about it, never researched it) be included there? I don't know what it is exactly, but they say they use it to get all of the toxins and things out of the kids to see if that helps. And how exactly does it help, if it does?

That is one of the bullshit "treatments" alternative "doctors" peddle, yes. It's called Chelation therapy. It's a lot like that infomerical online late at night that claims to cure diseases by clearing the toxins from your body. If you only by his pills at the low price of 14.99.

Yes. Exactly something like that. In fact, if someone ever mentions "toxins cleansing" as a real cure or treatment for Autism, it's probably a scam to suck you of money. There is no cure, no magic pill, no diet, no yoga exercizes that will get rid of or seriously treat autism. There are many "doctors" out there that prescribe all of these, but they don't work. Parents are very vulnerable to that type of dishonesty because they usually go through a set of stages wherein they will try anything out of desperation. These "solutions" sound tempting because they claim to be useful.

I would advice the parents in your group to avoid the person who recommended that treatment at ALL costs. You can find an article about the treatment on quackwatch.

There have been people who have DIED due to chelation "therapy" for Autism.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9074208/


http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... ation.html

[Superman]

In fact, if someone ever mentions "toxins cleansing" as a real cure or treatment for Autism,l

Talk about snake oil... holy crap.

You can take that up a step too. "If someone ever mentions 'toxins cleansing' as a cure or treatment for (fill in the blank), it's most likely quackery at its finest."

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

The only thing that Chelation therapy has been shown to be good for is removing high quantities of heavy metals from the body. It's simply a bullshit therapy for Autism. It's based on the assumption that Autistic children have high quantities of heavy metals in their body; one reason is the assumption that Autism is caused by mercury build up.

I don't mean to imply that he therapy is bullshit for anything and everything. just for Autism because there's no link between vaccines, high mercury in the blood, and Autism.

It does have a purpose, but it's very dangerous even for that purpose. It's a horrible waste to remove "toxins" to cure something that isn't caused by what Chelantion therapy actually treats. Chelation therapy is primarily used if you are poisoned by high dosages of metals.

[Superman]

The only thing that Chelation therapy has been shown to be good for is removing high quantities of heavy metals from the body.

It has? Huh?

You know this whole 'high quantities of metal in the body' stuff is bogus too, right?

[Superman]

I'm not saying heavy metal toxicity doesn't exist, I'm saying this as it applies to practitioners of quack therapies.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

In most cases, it is bullshit, yes. However, the FDA has listed it as a valid conventional treatment for lead poisoning, and this is verified by the American Cancer Society and an article on JSTOR by the The National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS) journal.

The problem is that it's not an alternative therapy for anything, and the practitioners often claim that it cures diseases (or prevents them) by doing that. It doesn't. For example, one claim is that excess metals removed will improve blood flow or artery functioning. Studies show it won't. Some also claim it "cure" cancer by doing it. It doesn't. This is pointed out in the articles.

The treatment does indeed remove metals, but it fixes none of the things it is said to be an alternative treatment for. Even it's conventional use has problems, though, because it gets rid of metals people need. It's killed people doing that too.

The problem is that it doesn't cure cholesterol, improve blood flow, fix arteries that are weak, cure autism, or make you better behaved, as they claim it does BY removing the metals. It is approved for removing metals, though.



JSTOR

ACS


Chelation therapy, according to the FDA DOES have a legit use and is in common, not alternative therapy use. Lead poisoning.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Damn.

Can someone fix that link please?

[defanatic]

I am of the opinion that self-diagnosis is mostly bullshit, and mainly used on large internet communities to explain away social ineptitude.

However, I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. I also recall getting told by a bunch of youth group fundies that it's all in my mind and it should be easy not to fall into believing that I have it, therefore fixing the problem. I take a handful of salt with that solution, and really don't think it is valid.

[Vehrec]

The word 'Spectrum' is quite appropriate. I'm in a student/YA support group, and have met people from all over the scale while in it. Some of them are fairly normal, or are just quiet. Others cannot form complete sentances in a timely manner, or interupt normal conversation without waiting for a chance to interject, or obsess over things like Yu-gi-oh. It's shown me just how much of variety there is in this. I don't know if some of these people will ever be able to function on their own in a normal society. On the other hand, I can see quite a few of them having few if any problems existing in a day-to-day fashion. So yes, it's complicated, and yes I do belive that it's somthing you can't reasonably expect to alter. But! You can be aware of it. You can work to improve yourself. I know that when I slow down and think, I can put myself into another person's shoes and empathize. And that's in my opinion one of the best things I can do to combat my condition.

[Gustav32Vasa]

I have a question about diagnosing someone with Asperger's. How can you diagnose it before the brain is finished developed?

[Superman]

I have a question about diagnosing someone with Asperger's. How can you diagnose it before the brain is finished developed?

That's a good question. In the classroom instruction I've had, I've learned that children with autism, including Aspeger's, have distinct behavioral differences. I once watched two toddlers; one who was diagnosed with autism, and another who was not. A researcher sat both of them down, and sprayed shaving cream in the palms of each. Both children were immensely fascinated with the foam, but, and here's a key difference, the child without autism looked to his parents and the researchers to share his discovery. He held his hand out, laughed, called to them; he wanted to include them in his play with the foam. The child with autism, while interested in the foam, kept quietly to himself and showed no signs or interest in sharing.

What clinicians look for are indications of qualitative social impairment.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Autistic children tend to be drawn toward inanimate objects and they stim with them.

[Qwerty 42]

I have a question about diagnosing someone with Asperger's. How can you diagnose it before the brain is finished developed?

That's a good question. In the classroom instruction I've had, I've learned that children with autism, including Aspeger's, have distinct behavioral differences. I once watched two toddlers; one who was diagnosed with autism, and another who was not. A researcher sat both of them down, and sprayed shaving cream in the palms of each. Both children were immensely fascinated with the foam, but, and here's a key difference, the child without autism looked to his parents and the researchers to share his discovery. He held his hand out, laughed, called to them; he wanted to include them in his play with the foam. The child with autism, while interested in the foam, kept quietly to himself and showed no signs or interest in sharing.

What clinicians look for are indications of qualitative social impairment.

Really. That's intriguing.

[Ericxihn]

Is there a difference between Aspergers and just having poor social skills and being awkward? If so, how do you tell?

[Darth Servo]

Is there a difference between Aspergers and just having poor social skills and being awkward? If so, how do you tell?

The other primary symptom of Aspergers is they're typically extremely hypersensitive. Wear very soft clothes and extremely picky about the food they'll eat. They also tend to be quite bright and also some OCD thrown in for good measure.

[Starglider]

My limited understanding of this is that the 'no social skills' is simply not noticing subtle cues about other people's mental states and/or not knowing how to express yourself or influence other people (for lack of social skills). Autism involves a lack of the innate ability to translate overt cues (e.g. facial expressions) into information about other people's mental states, which most humans even socially inept ones take for granted, and/or a lack of the fundamental ability to model other people's intentions via empathy ('what would I do if I were in that position' - normal humans do this all the time without explicitly thinking it to answer questions like 'why did she just pick up the ball', autistic people usually have to painstakingly teach themselves to do it). It's a difference between being untrained and/or not confident, and lacking basic abilities normal humans have without any learning or training.

[Johonebesus]

From what I was told, Asperger's patients frequently have some other minor autistic symptoms. They might be overly sensitive to certain sounds, tastes, or touches. They might have repetitive gestures, like drumming their fingers or flapping their hands, or rocking their entire bodies. Children may become obsessed with narrow topics of interest and develop an encyclopedic knowledge in that one field. They will then deliver long, detailed lecture anyone who will listen. Dr. Asperger called his original sample group "little professors". Sometimes their interests will change, and one might suddenly drop his passion of the last couple of years for a new, unrelated field. Asperger's children can be fascinated with certain sights, I think the classic example is the motion of a match-box car's wheel, and will stare at the sight almost catatonically for hours. Asperger's patients often use language in a very literal way, and have difficulty understanding idioms and ambiguous language. They aren't as self contained as full blown autistics, but they aren't very demonstrative. They avoid emotional language, and have difficulty both conveying and interpreting emotion. They often start to speak early and in complete thoughts instead of babbling, but their first words won't be emotional, like "dada" or "mama". The shrink made a big deal out of the fact that my first intelligible words were, "I want a cup of water." He said that an Asperger's teenager might seem to have the intellectual maturity of twenty-five year old, but the emotional maturity of a ten year old.

Also, there is a difference between social skills and social instinct. Someone who is sheltered might be awkward, but skills can be learned. When a thirty year old still can't tell the difference between friendly joshing and malicious mockery, or can't always perceive sarcasm, or sounds angry or sarcastic when he doesn't mean to, that's more than just lack of skills. Furthermore, many Asperger's patients don't really seek out or desire companionship, and will actively avoid social interaction, even at a young age. Someone who is awkward or shy likely still wants to have friends, he just doesn't know how.

[Stark]

My limited understanding of this is that the 'no social skills' is simply not noticing subtle cues about other people's mental states and/or not knowing how to express yourself or influence other people (for lack of social skills). Autism involves a lack of the innate ability to translate overt cues (e.g. facial expressions) into information about other people's mental states, which most humans even socially inept ones take for granted, and/or a lack of the fundamental ability to model other people's intentions via empathy ('what would I do if I were in that position' - normal humans do this all the time without explicitly thinking it to answer questions like 'why did she just pick up the ball', autistic people usually have to painstakingly teach themselves to do it). It's a difference between being untrained and/or not confident, and lacking basic abilities normal humans have without any learning or training.

For adults, it's more that the software you developed as a kid to deal with that sort of thing isn't always appropriate. When your own mind is full of things you don't understand, it becomes very important to understand everything in the external world: people, however, aren't particularly predictable beyond the superficial. This makes you really, really good at anything deterministic, like maths, but very poor at anything you don't have a good mechanism for.

Then again, I don't believe I have any real problem with empathy (indeed, the opposite) but this is probably due to training myself to do it, and overcompensating. If I'm being an asshole or insensitive, it's quite deliberate.

[Superman]

Is there a difference between Aspergers and just having poor social skills and being awkward? If so, how do you tell?

In an adult, poor social skills alone could indicate a number of things, or nothing at all. If this is a primary complaint that's brought to a psychiatrist, here are the three diagnoses that will be initially investigated.

[Superman]

Damn, I hit 'send' a little too quickly. I was going to resize these excerpts... sorry about that.

[Napoleon the Clown]

However, I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. I also recall getting told by a bunch of youth group fundies that it's all in my mind and it should be easy not to fall into believing that I have it, therefore fixing the problem. I take a handful of salt with that solution, and really don't think it is valid.

"It's all in your head" is one of the stupidest things I ever hear in regards to things like Autism, Bipolar, Anxiety, etc. It's more to do with a lack of an ability to empathize with someone, usually from miseducation, than outright malice, but it's still fucking idiotic and cruel.


I'm not diagnosed with anything on the Autism spectrum, so I don't really know what it's like to have it. Based off the symptoms though, I can't understand why anyone in their right mind wants a debilitating condition like that to be forced to stick around. It makes you smart/better at some things? Whoopdy shit. It destroys more lives than it improves. What good is being a mathmatical savant if you're incapable of taking care of yourself, a la Raymond from Rainman? Bipolar seems (no causation proven, just apparent correlation) to increase certain traits that are very beneficial. And yet I'd be very happy to see it go. I myself am BP 1. And while it does have some seem to improve my life in some areas it fucking sucks over all. There is a net loss in life quality because of it. I don't want anyone to be forced into the hell that BP can bring. And I'd imagine Autism is even worse, on average. BP can at least be contolled to a useful extent with the right therapy, lifestyle, and often medication. Autism, from what I know of it, can't be controlled to even a tenth the extent BP can.