GCS vs ISD: Calling out Northern Huntsman

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 05:27pm

Situation: 1 ISD mark 2 and 1 GCS as per TNG era meet in deep space. They fight.

Northern Huntsman wrote:Range, maneuveribility, weapons coverage, sensor capabilities, and firepower depending on whose views of canon you use, and which calculations.

Present your argument.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 08:37pm

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-08 08:52pm

Ever seen the movies? One ISD vaporized an asteroid per second in TESB while the Enterprise couldn't scratch one even with phasers and torpedoes on maximum yield

Armor is way too strong on the ISD. The GCS is totally fucked. Moreover, the ISD is 1000 meters longer and perhaps 600 meters wider and 200 meters higher. With that kind of size, it would take forever for the GCS's phasers to completely burn through to the reactor.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-08 08:58pm

He's challenging Northern Huntsman, not you.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-08 09:03pm

This fight isn't exactly "fair" (ignore the already known issue, I am stating something else). Your pitting a front line improved version of the ISD against the weakest version of the GCS. In the very least pick a War GCS or even a Venture variant of the GCS.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-08 09:07pm

Alyeska wrote:This fight isn't exactly "fair" (ignore the already known issue, I am stating something else). Your pitting a front line improved version of the ISD against the weakest version of the GCS. In the very least pick a War GCS or even a Venture variant of the GCS.

What are the key differences? Most people are probably most familiar with the TNG version (keep in mind that not everyone loyally watched DS9; any sci-fi series where one of the biggest plotlines is "Will Odo reveal his secret feelings to Kira?" smells too much like a soap opera to get a wider audience.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-08 09:08pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:This fight isn't exactly "fair" (ignore the already known issue, I am stating something else). Your pitting a front line improved version of the ISD against the weakest version of the GCS. In the very least pick a War GCS or even a Venture variant of the GCS.
What are the key differences? Most people are probably most familiar with the TNG version (keep in mind that not everyone loyally watched DS9; any sci-fi series where one of the biggest plotlines is "Will Odo reveal his secret feelings to Kira?" smells too much like a soap opera to get a wider audience.

The GCS has greater damage taking capabilities and either an expanded shuttlebay for fighters or an armored spine. The Venture goes further and has added phaser arrays, one on each warp engine.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-08 09:10pm

They most likely put in the power generating warp core instead of the hole mix up with the E-D being charged by a gaint photon torpedo, since several ships of that time have the warp core frailty fixed to a point.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-08 09:11pm

anarchistbunny wrote: since several ships of that time have the warp core frailty fixed to a point.

Grrrrrr. Replace several with most.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-08 09:30pm

Alyeska wrote:This fight isn't exactly "fair" (ignore the already known issue, I am stating something else). Your pitting a front line improved version of the ISD against the weakest version of the GCS. In the very least pick a War GCS or even a Venture variant of the GCS.

Actually, if I were doing that, it would be a Republic class Star Destroyer vs the GCS. But your point is taken.

Make it a Venture GCS variant.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-09 12:32am

Alyeska wrote: The GCS has greater damage taking capabilities and either an expanded shuttlebay for fighters or an armored spine. The Venture goes further and has added phaser arrays, one on each warp engine.

Source?

I know the spine is darker but that doesn't automatically translate into 'armored'.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-09 12:35am

Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote: The GCS has greater damage taking capabilities and either an expanded shuttlebay for fighters or an armored spine. The Venture goes further and has added phaser arrays, one on each warp engine.
Source?

I know the spine is darker but that doesn't automatically translate into 'armored'.

It is a limited thing done to only some GCS. Analysis of the possible reasons for doing so come to the most logical conclussion of armored reinforcement of one of the larger structural weakpoints on the ship design. No canon proof, just inteligent observation.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-09 12:51am

Alyeska wrote:It is a limited thing done to only some GCS. Analysis of the possible reasons for doing so come to the most logical conclussion of armored reinforcement of one of the larger structural weakpoints on the ship design. No canon proof, just inteligent observation.

hmmmmm .... not the *strongest* evidence ... how do we know that the dark spine isn't a hack repair job for example using different materials, or something of that nature?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-09 12:54am

If that's true then it would pretty much be the only armour on the entire ship.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-01-09 12:55am

jaeger115 wrote:

Ever seen the movies? One ISD vaporized an asteroid per second in TESB while the Enterprise couldn't scratch one even with phasers and torpedoes on maximum yield

what episode was that?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-09 01:30am

Vympel wrote:
Alyeska wrote:It is a limited thing done to only some GCS. Analysis of the possible reasons for doing so come to the most logical conclussion of armored reinforcement of one of the larger structural weakpoints on the ship design. No canon proof, just inteligent observation.
hmmmmm .... not the *strongest* evidence ... how do we know that the dark spine isn't a hack repair job for example using different materials, or something of that nature?

Because it is identically duplicated on two GCSs side by side. These GCSs do NOT have the expanded shuttle bay. Then in Sacrafice Angles the GCSs shown had expanded shuttle bays but no darkened spine. As I said, for duplicates of the same subtype to exist, it must serve a good function. Given that these ships were going into combat it is entirely logical to assume that these are armored versions of the GCS.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-09 01:43am

Alyeska wrote:
Because it is identically duplicated on two GCSs side by side. These GCSs do NOT have the expanded shuttle bay. Then in Sacrafice Angles the GCSs shown had expanded shuttle bays but no darkened spine. As I said, for duplicates of the same subtype to exist, it must serve a good function. Given that these ships were going into combat it is entirely logical to assume that these are armored versions of the GCS.

Ah alright then.

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2003-01-09 01:44am

And sense when has ship design in Star Trek been based on logic.

It might be armor, it might not...the GCS still gets destroyed.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2003-01-09 04:35am

Jst one point - 200 GT Turbolaser... Can even a battle harden ST warship stand up to that. Doubt it....

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-09 11:20am

Alyeska wrote:This fight isn't exactly "fair"

Mr Garrison wrote:Life's not fair kid, get used to it

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2003-01-09 11:36am

It doesn't matter how much armor Starfleet putted on the GCS, it still going to die to any Imperial warship.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-09 12:18pm

I like how everyone has posted in this thread EXCEPT Northern Huntsman. Mods, could you please move this extra stuff?

NH: I say it again. 1 ISD mark 2 vs I Venture class GCS war variant., meeting in deep space.

Present your argument.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-01-09 09:20pm

It has been just shy of 28 hours. Still no response.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-09 10:07pm

Par for the course. Make vague snipes about things, but when called out on any of it, run off and never come back.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-09 10:09pm

Vympel wrote:Par for the course. Make vague snipes about things, but when called out on any of it, run off and never come back.

Wrong, its not never come back, it's come back 2 weeks later, ignoring any attempts to be pulled back into the old point, create new point, repeat.

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GCS vs ISD: Calling out Northern Huntsman

GCS vs ISD: Calling out Northern Huntsman

Ummm

One thing