Dwarf Fortress: General Discussion

[Covenant]

Wha? He retroactively banned the export?

Yeah. I think because he had banned it mid-export, so that I'd already sold the stuff, but the caravan had not yet departed. So maybe he wanted me to get it back. But seriously, the little fucknut needs to realize that if he's wasting my time on armor, there's no reason to horde it.

Banned exports should only be banned to non-Dwarf types, unless the noble wants them. Making me build dumbass stuff and then stopping me from moving it is just bad business. This manager needs a lesson in economics, as does the Sherrif.

This is why I dislike 'behavior based' games. Who in their right mind would murder all their own farmers just because of an arbitrary export restriction?

[Starglider]

Shame it's not open source otherwise I'd add a ton of cool stuff. Oh well, perhaps the producers will do so after the code base has stabilised more.

[Nephtys]

Couldn't you just make sure that some Dwarves (such as a pesky sheriff or demanding noble) have unfortunate 'accidents'?

For my fortress, I put an execution switch behind an extremely well protected door complex, that can basically kill anyone with a 'quality bedroom'.

Security is made against children/gremlins using an airlock style 'you need two people to get through' system of door switches.

[Covenant]

Shame it's not open source otherwise I'd add a ton of cool stuff. Oh well, perhaps the producers will do so after the code base has stabilised more.

There's some degree of modding! People have added new animals and alcohols and such. I personally dislike traps and such, so I'd love to add new war animals, especially constructable ones. Like using mechanisms, metal bars, wood barrels, and such to create Dwarf robots. I know people want to avoid steampunk contraptions, but I absolutely love motors and stuff. If we wanted to be mundane, I'd still like to be able to make elevated bridges (aquaducts for dwarves) that could connect to arrow towers, or the ability to dig out chasms in the ground outside, or such. I really dislike being attacked at random internally, and also dislike the idea of being harassed from the outside without being able to venture forth and crush my enemies. I'd really enjoy being able to lay siege to an enemy's fortress, or to draft dwarves. Not being able to control my own immigration kinda sucks.

[GuppyShark]

Yeah. I think because he had banned it mid-export, so that I'd already sold the stuff, but the caravan had not yet departed. So maybe he wanted me to get it back. But seriously, the little fucknut needs to realize that if he's wasting my time on armor, there's no reason to horde it.

There's a very good reason to have armour lying around. For war.

Banned exports should only be banned to non-Dwarf types, unless the noble wants them. Making me build dumbass stuff and then stopping me from moving it is just bad business. This manager needs a lesson in economics, as does the Sherrif.

This is why I dislike 'behavior based' games. Who in their right mind would murder all their own farmers just because of an arbitrary export restriction?

Justice is its own reward! Honestly, I don't think you're in that big of a pickle. It's just set your development back. Anyone can farm, and now you have less mouths to feed.

If you start over, you'll have fewer dwarves and no resources. Unless you're down to fewer than seven, I'd stick it out.

Not being able to control my own immigration kinda sucks.

Immigration is not likely to be a problem for you. The phrase 'in the red' is applicable for more than one reason.

[Starglider]

Shame it's not open source otherwise I'd add a ton of cool stuff. Oh well, perhaps the producers will do so after the code base has stabilised more.

There's some degree of modding! People have added new animals and alcohols and such.

That's editing the config files. The game mechanics aren't alterable without decompiling the program, which the license prohibits.

[Nephtys]

Have 'The Law' meet 'Mob Justice', after the unfair executions of the friends of the Proletariat. In fact, can't you pretty much just execute any of those bougeois nobles that aren't of use, with minimal consequences?

Arrange 'accidents' with tunnels or flooding, the Steam Room, or being locked up and left to starve.

[Duckie]

Have 'The Law' meet 'Mob Justice', after the unfair executions of the friends of the Proletariat. In fact, can't you pretty much just execute any of those bougeois nobles that aren't of use, with minimal consequences?

Arrange 'accidents' with tunnels or flooding, the Steam Room, or being locked up and left to starve.

Currently now, but he plans to make the death of a noble more significant, make them less annoying, and add more uses to them.

[Covenant]

Have 'The Law' meet 'Mob Justice', after the unfair executions of the friends of the Proletariat. In fact, can't you pretty much just execute any of those bougeois nobles that aren't of use, with minimal consequences?

Arrange 'accidents' with tunnels or flooding, the Steam Room, or being locked up and left to starve.

Currently now, but he plans to make the death of a noble more significant, make them less annoying, and add more uses to them.

Right now a lot of the difficulty in the game comes from the game's own punishments, rather than from challenges. Like, I lose one or two dwarfs every time it floods just because I can't tell them to evacuate an area. There's always some dumbass fisherman ready to go and fish his life away during the flood. What actually saved my farmers was the sheriff being washed into the water. It didn't kill him, annoyingly, but he was stuck on a little outcrop of land with no way to get back into my tunnels. I didn't release him until I'd given armor to the offending Dwarfs and built myself a few ropes for restraints.

It's just moronic. That and this fuckton of stones. These stones need some way to be stacked higher, even if it was just a gravel pit.

Anyway, the nobles really do need a purpose, as do Fortress Guards. The Guards are, as it stands, beyond pointless. They're just a unit tax, where they should be fairly elite, shouldn't they? I'm not sure if they're Fortress Guards as in elite guards or as in Fortress Mall Security Teams in the sense that they suck and just harass shoppers. Either way, it seems kinda dumb for them to hit heroic and never come back, especially as they don't even respond to issues. They should automatically run to any trouble inside the fortress, like automatic patrols.

They also need to make a differnce between Stockpiles and Stores. I want to be able to have a little pile of stones that is kept full by peasents for my masons to use, or wood for my carpenters, but to have the rest of the bulk of them stored off somewhere else.

[GuppyShark]

I think you can do that - have one of your piles set to "Take from other piles"?

[Covenant]

I think you can do that - have one of your piles set to "Take from other piles"?

I think that's how it's done, but it shouldn't be as esoteric. Having a 'bin' for stone would be nice. It'd also be nice if I could move objects... or specifically lay certain areas out for Tower Cap production. Right now I just flood big empty areas and try to spawn them in there but it takes forever.

I just get uncomfortable with it seemingly forcing me forwards. I don't want to constantly need to dig deeper, since at some point it will just get out of control and then the game is going to end, and it'll end anyway. Forced limits are bad. ;(

[GuppyShark]

The only reason I can see that the game would be forced to end would be if you mined out every scrap of ore in the mountain, and then expended them trying to defend the settlement. Crops and wood are renewable resources. Half the map is stone.

Even then you could probably trade for metal. You do not HAVE to mine adamantium.

[Starglider]

You do not HAVE to mine adamantium.

Technically true but you have to murder the king to avoid it.

[GuppyShark]

Poo.

Guess I'll have to be a Kingslayer then.

[Covenant]

Note, spoilers ahead.

Yeah, that's the thing. With the way the game is, if you do a moderately halfassed job, you still get hordes of immigrants. Eventually that king will show up, set demands for adamantium, and failing to complete them will have half of your fortress beaten by Fortress Guards, the Hammerer, or locked in cages for up to 100 days. It's pretty repugnant!

Now, what I'd totally groove on is if my military was a bit more managable, and the idea is that I build a fortress not for the sake of some dumbass who wants flutes made out of talc, but to fight my way to the core of the mountain. If the river's mudmen, the chasm's ratmen, and the horrors beyond were honest-to-god challenges (possibly with micro-complexes of their own I could raid and maybe sieze from them, along with stockpiles of gold coins and weapons) rather than just environmental hazards/punishments then I'd love it.

Imagine if the endgame wasn't trying to avoid eventual game-forced perma-restart (even if you retake the fortress, it stays dead, which is mindfuckingly stupid, talk about wasting a totally epic opportunity) but a rush to make as much shit out of Adamantium as you could before the timer runs down and the Balrog thing appears, so you could fall back and eventually fight the thing, kill it, and have access to the adamantium stores there. What for I don't know, but I think it'd be totally badass if instead of making the chasm a landmark/barrier that occasionally became a pain in the ass and the river a barrier/landmark that floods and kills a few of your guys and horses and such a few times a year without much or anything you can do about it.... if instead of that, it was allowed to directly challenge the thing and take it out. Like, the Chasm could be filled with gems or something, and I could battle for control of it. It just seems kinda squandered as it is right now. I love this silly game to pieces, but I really feel a disincentive to dig deeper. I like playing with my fortress and trying to make the perfect functioning fortress and plan for war against Goblins, but it's too much about traps and hazards for my taste. Too indirect and passive to get a perfect 10/10.

Note, spoilers above.

[Walsh]

I personally think it's fucking lame how the game ends before you can even do anything with adamantine, so I cheated to stop the balrog from attacking.

First of all you have to set a creature to drop adamantine, AFTER you have discovered the adamantine vein, but BEFORE you have mined even a single square of it. Then, kill that type of creature (or creatures) until you get that first bit of adamantine from one of their corpses. Once you have picked up that first bit of adamantine, you can clean out the whole adamantine vein with no balrog attack.

Also, whilst I haven't tried it myself, apparently editing the raws allows you to make every animal trainable. War elephants? Yes please.

[Starglider]

I love this silly game to pieces, but I really feel a disincentive to dig deeper. I like playing with my fortress and trying to make the perfect functioning fortress and plan for war against Goblins, but it's too much about traps and hazards for my taste.

I have an irrational desire to play the ratmen and the batmen in their valiant struggle to fight off the evil dwarven invaders. Further evidence that I must be one of those deranged furries I suppose, or maybe I just like playing the underdog. While the ability to build human cities and elf settlements in future versions has been hinted at, I'd be surprised if the more obscure races get supported. Though again, if it was open source, I'd hack it in.

[Covenant]

I've thought about that, from the perspective of a hypothetical game-maker. Different civs with different build types. Chasm-dwellers like Skaveny Ratmen might be hard to model correcetly, but I could definately see a Goblin Fortress idea working well. Men and Elves too, and let the Dwarves be defined by their insanely fast digging, whereas Elves probably get magic wood sources so they never cut trees and men would do a lot more with quarrying out stone to build up castles rather than building into the mountains like Dwarfs.

My ideal game, though, would put you in the role of a Dwarf Lord that arrives with 6 other Dwarfs of your picking to start a new fortress after your old one fell to Goblins, possibly at the behest of a dark lord. The objective is to build up a fort and retake your old city. The longer you take, the more likely it becomes the goblins will find you and mount attacks. The bigger and more robust your city is, the more likely your king is to decide to move in and declare it a Mountain Hall, and start making demands for expansion and permanent settlement.

And I'd want it to be as first person as possible, with top-down views coming into play in the Architect's quarters (or anywhere else with a map, possibly one in your hands) where you could see it top down with a graphical overlay atop the blueprints. He could also create models of objects for you, like of statues and the shape of a hall, that you could look at. You'd be able to lead your Dwarves into battle personally, or go down to the mines and ask about their situation (instead of just clicking V on them, but the same idea) and give direct orders for tasks or personnel assignments.

[ColonialAdmiral]

So you could have one charecter under your control, and this "Dwarf Lord" Could have good armour and skills to start, But due to the early ferocity of the goblin hordes, you can't actually use him all alone by himself. And he could have a Horse/Mule/Donkey to make him move faster.

Hey dwarven cavalry!!!
Maybee if you edit you can train horses into war horses...But then where would the dwarves come from? I guess they could just spontaniously generate...

Another idea for exdending the game:
You still are subject to the adamantine crap. But when the demon awakes, he comes and starts laying waste to your fortress. If you have a strong enough army to kill him, then he dies, and you keep on mining. But behind the Adamantine, lyes the underworld, Erebus, and since hades was supposed to control the minerals and stuff underground, imagine how much the dwarves would want to go there!!! After the Adamantine demon is gone, you can craft somekind of underworld portal, and then your dwarves can enter it, extracting more and more valuable minerals! But the thing is, then underworld is inhabited by things evan more horrible than the adamantine demon. You have to turn the portal into a fortification in itself, less demon hordes come through it into your fortress, from the other side!!!

But if the demon doesn't die, then your fortress dies except for one old man who always escapes to tell tales at the bar...
From this point you would have two options: In adventure mode, you can go and of course, discover the secret behind the old abandoned fortress that the old man babbles about. Then you can fight the demon. If you win, then you could get adamantine of your own.
In reclaim mode, you have to go fight the demon. If your army wins, then you take the fortress back as usual. After a year or so of mining this precious adamantine, you find the portal. And a demon horde immediatly comes thorough!!!

Or maybee after you kill the demon, your race could declare imperial ambitions, and start attacking other forts...
That would be neat.

Of course the game isn't to that level yet. There are still lots of effeciancy problems worked out, as well as perhaps a smarter seige AI...

[Covenant]

I like the idea of mining into the underworld itself. Maybe you need to divert the magma flow, not just bridge it, in order to drain the magma pocket and advance down more. In the game you could have several ways of doing this, including undermining the cap of the mountain and turning it into a volcano.

The Dark Lord I mentioned would be an eventual foe, like the Goblin King, and the Balrog. Mining too deep gets you material powers, but makes you risk the Balrog, but it makes fighting the Dark Lord easier if you win. And staying away from too deep makes fighting the Dark Lord harder than without adamantium, but without needing to kill the Demon you can throw your entire army into the effort to raid his fortress and take him down, and if you can waste him then smashing the Balrog shouldn't be that bad.

Basically, I'd make the demon a 'Boss' of a side-quest to unlock Mithril or Adamantium or something. If you choose to mine the SuperOre, you have to fight the Demon, but the SuperOre can be turned into anything and is just great at being armor and weapons, so it's really worth it. It's an 'advanced' gamer challenge suitable for the people who want to risk it for something big. Mining further down until you reach the underworld would be a similar challenge.

Then your Dwarf Lord could cease to be just Lord of the Fortress, but actually Lord of the Underworld. If we make the Underworld less about demons and more about, potentially, Dwarf Mythology then conquering the Underworld isn't an 'evil' thing, as it just transforms you into a Dwarf God. Theoretically we could even make it so if you smash the Dark Lord's tower, you get a ring and could use that to become a Dark Lord yourself (which lets you start the game over, essentially, with goblins instead of Dwarves).

Instead of horses or mules, they could have ponies. A war pony is still a serious animal with training and power, but isn't the size of a full-scale horse. War Ponies could have a weight limitation on them to keep you from making them as powerful as a real horse when going into battle against knights (ponies are able to be ridden by children just fine, so a Dwarf wouldn't find problems with a good saddle), but once you get adamantium or the other super ores and are able to create Dwarven Metals (I'd make that a distinct subsection, and frankly, I'd rather make Adamantium something you add to an alloy rather than the super material itself. Let there be Mithril or Durmil or something and then that special stuff you add to it to amke it Adamantium) then you can make super-light armor and weapons and make armored Dwarf Riders that can go toe-to-toe with knights and break the point of mundane iron weapons easily.

They could also turn Elephants into Fortress Elephants, with massive arrow-towers on their back like people did to the large elephants in real life. Dwarves due to their size would even be better suited to this, as they could fit a lot of Dwarves on top of an elephant, and armor it with Adamantium eventually.

[Utsanomiko]

Well golly gee, maybe the developer should take notes from people that have been playing all week and write a list of things to add and fix. Seven hundred of them would be nice.

Also, putting all the landmarks into every map makes the alpha build repetitive to play, they need to spice up their alpha.

[CaptainChewbacca]

This is the first I've heard of this game, and it seems like a great way to liven up my unemployment.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Also, putting all the landmarks into every map makes the alpha build repetitive to play, they need to spice up their alpha.

Watching the movies on the Coming Next section of the website has spoiled me. I want the Z axis and massively varied locations shown in them, and the current game no longer seems as tempting to play.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Dear holy lord, generating a world takes FOREVER!

[Exonerate]

So I recently started playing, and on my 3rd game I finally managed to get a decent game going (As in I didn't lose both of my miners and my only anvil to a flood). I've just survived the 3rd summer and I'm getting ready to plant my crops, and all of a sudden there's a HUGE flood from the river outside that seeps into my fortress. It seems to be a seasonal flood thing, and all I know is that so far I've lost about 10 dwarves to drowning and that the flood shows absolutely no signs of dissipating. Looks like time for a new game.