Fanfiction as a piece of literature?

[ray245]

I think it's time we start to consider fanfiction as a piece of literature on its own. Reason being...it can be considered an art to capture the tone, the mode of the world you are writing about. What do you think?

Also I find a few points fanfics needed to be good...

To me, the most important aspect of writing a fanfiction is sticking close to the character as shown in cannon source. If there's any crossover fics, the main thing the story needs is character to be themselves.

I've seen many fanfiction where the characters only have the names similiar to the ones in cannon, and doing almost everything that is 'out-of-character' . An example will be those manipulative Dumbledore fics, or all those slash fics.

No matter how well written, it shows that you are trying to change the characters into what you want them to be, and not what they really are. One strong reason why I stop reading the HP/SG1 crossover ' The Soul Has Bandaged Moments'

Parody fics are exception because they are not meant to be taken seriously.

Another thing is how serious the author treat their work. A good fanfic usually have a tone of respect for what they write, and willing to show to the readers that this is not a one-shot fic, where they are bound to stop halfway, or do not even bother about the paragraphs, structuring and spelling can hardly be defined as a 'serious' fic.

Other thing will be the background knowledge of the universe around the character. While capturing the atmosphere and sticking closely to whatever tools the world use is important, breaking out of the mould by adding new but believeable stuff can help the story, so the fics will not feel stuck.

Another thing...the background of the character is also important. One main thing that shaped a character is his/her background.

Like harry potter for example, for all we know he is the harry potter we love because of what dursely do to him, making him wanting nothing more than friendship and love, as well as treasuring them closely.

Unless the author can give a good explanation how harry will not be arrogant or feel himself to be 'elite' or pureblood, don't expect him to remain the same if he was adopted by a wizarding family. Or the authors writing what are the motives of the character actions WITHOUT knowing the full extent of the story.

Yes, I'm looking at those manipulative Dumbledore fics without mentioning why dumbledore finds harry to be so important. Those dumb ass who think they know stuff WAY better than J.K Rowling when she did not even complete her series.


This is just my view on how a good fanfic should be, well-written but most importantly capture the world you are writing about. What do you guys think?

[Sean Mulligan]

Some fanfics are better then the fandom they originated from. I posted a link to a great Galbatorix fic on the Best of ffn thread. It is also interesting to note that Charles Dickens and other nineteenth century writers published their novels in serial form where chapters of books like Oliver Twist were printed in magazines one chapter at a time much like modern fanfiction writers who post chapters online.

[General Soontir Fel]

I've seen many fanfiction where the characters only have the names similiar to the ones in cannon, and doing almost everything that is 'out-of-character' . An example will be those manipulative Dumbledore fics, or all those slash fics.

Uhm... are you saying that unless the character explicitly declares "I'm gay," it's not OK to write him/her in a homosexual relationship?

Also, fanfic has always been with us. What do you think the Aeneid is? What do you think Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead is? What do you think Scarlett is? What do you think Paradise Lost is?

I once read a really funny essay on how the New Testament is a bad Old Testament fanfic, with Jesus as a major Gary Stu.

But as to specifics of what you're saying... of course fanfic is a creative process, and it should be based in canon. Uhm... duh?

And you shouldn't single out slash for bad fics. There are plenty of plenty of those in het, too.

[Hawkwings]

No kidding. I remember a horrible FFNet HP-universe fanfic with the main characters being "a goth angle from hell", with absolutely no paragraphs, grammar, or spelling. There was some question in the discussion on whether or not it was meant as a serious fanfic, or a joke.

I try to stick to the mood of the universe when writing, but sometimes it's hard, and sometimes you just have to break some rules for the sake of clarity or moving the story along. Not to say that the rules should just be tossed to the winds; they are there for a reason, and people usually like the universes that are originally created.

[ray245]

I've seen many fanfiction where the characters only have the names similiar to the ones in cannon, and doing almost everything that is 'out-of-character' . An example will be those manipulative Dumbledore fics, or all those slash fics.

Uhm... are you saying that unless the character explicitly declares "I'm gay," it's not OK to write him/her in a homosexual relationship?

And you shouldn't single out slash for bad fics. There are plenty of plenty of those in het, too.

LOL...what I mean is slash fic that does not make sense in the first place. Those fics that suddenly turn a straight guy to gay or hetro-sexual just to Satisfy the authors wants, and NOT what the characters are.

If the author can provide us with a good reason why the are like this, those fic fail in capturing the essence of the character themselves. Then they are nothing more than another character that simply share the same name with the real character in the novel.

Like those Harry/Draco or Harry/snape fics.

[General Soontir Fel]

LOL...what I mean is slash fic that does not make sense in the first place. Those fics that suddenly turn a straight guy to gay or hetro-sexual just to Satisfy the authors wants, and NOT what the characters are.

If the author can provide us with a good reason why the are like this, those fic fail in capturing the essence of the character themselves. Then they are nothing more than another character that simply share the same name with the real character in the novel.

Like those Harry/Draco or Harry/snape fics.

Point 1: how do you know they're canonically straight?

Point 2: this is not exclusive to slash. There are more Draco/Hermione fics than Draco/Harry.

[ray245]

how do you know they're canonically straight?

oh come on...you are just supporting the idea of gay-rights rather than focusing on the story. Most slash fics have yet to tell us why the characters will like a enemy or someone you know they would not like at all. Or turn gay for that matter. If the authors CANNOT tell us with a credible explaination, then he/she is simply failing to capture the character.

Since when has the HP books ever show harry being gay at all? Even J.K Rowling feeling weird about some fan-pairings.

I have nothing to say against gay characters pairing if the ch
aracters are written to be one. If they are not, how to you know they are gay? Unless you WANT them to be one, although that does not mean they really are the character you are reading.

this is not exclusive to slash. There are more Draco/Hermione fics than Draco/Harry.

Which is why I dislike those fics a just as well as most slash fics.

[Eris]

how do you know they're canonically straight?

oh come on...you are just supporting the idea of gay-rights rather than focusing on the story. Most slash fics have yet to tell us why the characters will like a enemy or someone you know they would not like at all. Or turn gay for that matter. If the authors CANNOT tell us with a credible explaination, then he/she is simply failing to capture the character.

He's doing what? I find this a very odd accusation, since a significant amount of the time the stories in question aren't pushing an agenda, but just writing about a non-conventional relationship, for whatever reason. This finding a reason to "turn gay" idea, though, frankly insults me. I dated boys early on in my life. I didn't show much of an external evidence of my attraction to girls until a bit later on. Does that mean I needed a credible explanation for hooking up with my current lover other than I felt more attracted and connected with her than I did any man that came before her?

Since when has the HP books ever show harry being gay at all? Even J.K Rowling feeling weird about some fan-pairings.

You act as though people know whether they're straight or gay by the time they're, what, sixteen? Seventeen? Eighteen at the most? There are people who spend their entire lives in the closet, marrying, having children and all. I consider myself a very early bloomer and I only really determined that I was a lesbian at seventeen, and dated and had sex with more than one guy before that. Teenage years are such confusing hormone bombs that no one, or at least very few, are really sure what they're about till later on.

So what if we don't have explicit canon say so? If a person wants to write a gay Harry story, why not? If they can do it well, so much the better.

I have nothing to say against gay characters pairing if the ch
aracters are written to be one. If they are not, how to you know they are gay? Unless you WANT them to be one, although that does not mean they really are the character you are reading.

If they aren't the character you're reading, then who are they? The character you're not reading about? The very idea is silly. They're certainly not the canon characters, but if I wanted to read about the canon characters, I'd go read the canon. Part of fanfiction is injected your own ideas into a pre-established world. I don't want to J.K. Rowlings work (continuing with the HP examples), I want to read your work. (Actually, I don't want to read yours, given how rather snobbish you sound, but it was a general second person there.)

You're also sounding very doubtful in your saying that you don't mind gay characters, sort of a "I'm not homophobic! Many of my best friends are gay! *handwaves*" kind of way. Really, what's wrong with gay Harry? It's not canon Harry. Yeah, well, fanfic isn't canon. We knew this. Of course, there's good and bad fanfic, but slash doesn't necessarily put it in the bad category. It may have a higher percentage of crap, given the fanbase writing, but that's not slash's fault - that's completely incidental.

this is not exclusive to slash. There are more Draco/Hermione fics than Draco/Harry.

Which is why I dislike those fics a just as well as most slash fics.

[/quote]

I have to wonder about this dogmatic dislike of certain kinds of fiction. I can understand not liking a bad fic, but one that just doesn't correspond with your view of what HP "should" be like? This are all by definition AUs anyhow. Why not experiment a bit?

I can even understand not liking certain full genres based on personal taste. Hell, plenty of reasonable people aren't grabbed by slash for whatever reason, and are perfectly fine about it. What strikes me odd about this position you have, and what frankly annoys me about it, is that you're making a value judgement based mostly, it looks, based on your own opinions. What makes something hide-bound canonical does not make it a good story, which is what I think the point of writing is. Entertainment, perhaps social commentary, expression of ideas. Not slavish devotion to certain Ideals Of Good Fanfic. If you don't want to read slash, then don't. But don't piss in our oatmeal while you do, please. Or if you do, have a better argument than "I think it's wrong."

[ray245]

fine...I'm willing to concede my point...why not tell us and dicuss about what should be a definition of good fanfiction other than the language or spelling?

[General Soontir Fel]

oh come on...you are just supporting the idea of gay-rights rather than focusing on the story. Most slash fics have yet to tell us why the characters will like a enemy or someone you know they would not like at all. Or turn gay for that matter. If the authors CANNOT tell us with a credible explaination, then he/she is simply failing to capture the character.

What does that have to do with homosexuality? That would be true equally true if Draco was a girl.

Since when has the HP books ever show harry being gay at all? Even J.K Rowling feeling weird about some fan-pairings.

I have nothing to say against gay characters pairing if the ch
aracters are written to be one. If they are not, how to you know they are gay? Unless you WANT them to be one, although that does not mean they really are the character you are reading.

Give me canon evidence that Harry is straight.

[LadyTevar]

Ok, folks... he wanted a discussion on "Are FanFics True Literature", so take the discussion on gay/not gay somewhere else.

OT: If we look back to the early 1900s, we can see that in some cases 'fan fiction', in this case Lovecraft's Mythos, became part of the 'canon' as a couple of contemporaries did borrow his works and set their own ideas within.

In a more modern idea, we have the StarWars EU, which can be bluntly described as 'sanctioned fan fic', or the many novels for StarTrek, WH40k, and the various D&D novels. While the authors did contact and request permission to use the Universe and/or Characters, the stories are for the most part fan-written stories set in that Universe: the very definition of 'FanFiction'.

[ray245]

Yup...one reason I want to concede is because I hate this topic to go off-topic, the reason I say I dislike slash fics just as well as those weird pairings fics is the same because I find that it has fail to capture the characters, instead it is just writing them into who you want them to be.

So...I will end my point about slash fics here...if you want to discuss about that, create another thread. And kindly get back to topic? If you do not have any other thing to comment on fanfic as a piece of literature, kindly get out of this thread.

And Lady tevar, thanks for bringing us back to topic.