STGOD: Dead Artist's Society: Mods

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2007-06-14 09:06pm

Just to make everything all sorts of set up and nice, how bout we go about working out who'se going to mod this thing? SirNitram has volunteered to mod, and has been acting as a mod so far, and I personally know him as a trustable and effective mod from games past. However, having 1 or 2 others might be a good idea. Any nominations?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-06-14 09:11pm

Nominations:
Iosef Stalin (will require necromancy and a trip to to the Kremlin)
Thirdfain
Gaivs Ivlivs Caesar (will require time machine)
Beowulf

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2007-06-14 09:17pm

I'd like to nominate Hotfoot.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-06-15 12:40am

We could have Thirdfain, SirNitram, Beowulf, and Hotfoot as mods. I've been trying to get ahold of Stalin but the Voodoo guy I know is asking for too much money so it might be a no-go. God explicitly told me bad things would happen with time travel, so definitely no Caesar.

Anyway, four mods (or three, dunno if Beo would want the job) is a lot but should make it easier to keep things straight and honest without having to resort to rule by decree.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2007-06-15 12:41am

Three is best number, because in the event of a mod disagreement, there can be a majority decision.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2007-06-15 12:56am

Due to serious differences of opinion before in STGODs, I will step down if Beo steps up. Sorry, but I would not be able to work alongside him.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2007-06-15 02:28am

He has been involved in some serious controversy... Maybe not the best choice for a mod, per say...

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2007-06-15 02:55am

Nitram dn Hotfoot would be a good choice IMHO.
I'd still like to do it once, but given the differences in time zones might not be applicable. Thirdfain would also be a good option...

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2007-06-15 03:52am

Having had experience with Nitram and Hotfoot as mods I agree that they would be good choices.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-15 09:25am

I second Nitram and Hotfoot as well.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2007-06-15 11:41am

Thirdfain wrote:He has been involved in some serious controversy... Maybe not the best choice for a mod, per say...

Then again, having been involved in said controversy lets me better understand what can go wrong. *shrug* If enough people want me to do it, I will, but I won't stick my name into the hat myself.

Wasn't Hotfoot the one who wanted 5 billion rules for this thing?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2007-06-15 12:41pm

I'd like to nominate Thirdfain, Nirtam, and Imperial Overload myself. The first two have done this before and in my opinion done quite well by the group. And Imperial Overlord has done an excellent job running the games he's organized so I have full confidence in his ability to handle an STGOD.

Also, I'd like to speak up against Hotfoot. His harsh words about STGODs in general and his push for a rules heavy game leave me in doubt. I'd rather not overly rules this thing up, that way always leads to disinterest.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2007-06-15 01:43pm

Oh and the mudslinging begins. What say you people? Shall I stay above it, or shall I join in?

Oh what the hell.

Oh no, the former co-mod of STGOD4 doesn't like me. Could it be because I'm the reason he was ejected? Gosh, that hurts Stormy, it really does. Love the rationalization though, it looks good.

As for Beowulf, well, if you want to point fingers, perhaps some should look at your previous track record for pissing off the mods of STGODs, like trying to pull the same lame trick you'd been told wouldn't fly in previous and current games? No, no water bombs this time either.

Yes, I'm critical of STGODs, because a lot of bullshit can and has happened. The job of a mod is to prevent bullshit from happening. As far as rules, they do need to be clearly defined. Like it or not, lots of rulings come up, because a lot of shit can happen. For example, how do interdictors work, how do ground forces work, how can this defense help against this attack? Is something more or less effective that something else? How do instantaneous FTL comms work in situations X, Y, and Z. Bluntly, anyone who starts a game without even considering those factors is doing a massive disservice to the players and themselves.

My personal preference is to identify potential problems early and deal with them before they become massive debates that bog down the game. If everyone has a decent idea of what they're getting into at the beginning, it reduces the amount of bullshit later. Yes, it makes the start a little more complicated, but such is life. You can either put up with a little pain right now getting everything organized, or we can run around like headless chickens later when we realize that there were a million things we didn't consider. So far, we're off to a decent start, all things considered. A few more points to consider, then everyone can just focus on making their OOBs and we can get this thing started.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2007-06-15 01:53pm

Hotfoot wrote:Oh no, the former co-mod of STGOD4 doesn't like me. Could it be because I'm the reason he was ejected? Gosh, that hurts Stormy, it really does. Love the rationalization though, it looks good.

I've gotten over that. Clearly you haven't. Whatever. It's nearly three years in the past and at this point it should stay there because it has nothing at all to do with this.

If you want my reasons, it's the fact that you're being remarkably belligerent about STGODs in general. You came remarkably close to starting an arguement with Thirdfain in the original thread; to me that's hardly a good sign in some one who would be Mod. Second of all, you're pushing for a very rules intense game which has always had problems and which have never really worked.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2007-06-15 01:59pm

Stormbringer wrote:I've gotten over that. Clearly you haven't. Whatever. It's nearly three years in the past and at this point it should stay there because it has nothing at all to do with this.

I'm sorry, I don't remember you apologizing for the shit you pulled. But hey, if you want to talk about it, you have my AIM. I haven't blocked you.

If you want my reasons, it's the fact that you're being remarkably belligerent about STGODs in general. You came remarkably close to starting an arguement with Thirdfain in the original thread; to me that's hardly a good sign in some one who would be Mod.

Thirdfain knows what he did wrong, and he apologized, which is more than can be said of you. You'll excuse me if I don't take the criticism of a man who's abused his mod powers in the past without a more than a few grains of salt.

Second of all, you're pushing for a very rules intense game which has always had problems and which have never really worked.

Every time I mention rules, you assume I mean a set of rules unlike what STGODs could possibly imagine. What, in your version of reality I looked at Starglider's ship construction system and said "Awesome, give me a week and I'll come up with a rules system that can use that"?

Please. Already we've got many more rules than STGOD4 and people are fine with it. We just need to iron out a handful more things and we're good to go.

Or did you forget to read that part of the post?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2007-06-15 02:08pm

Boohoo. Hotfoot doesn't like me. I will repeat: Whatever.

Hotfoot wrote:Please. Already we've got many more rules than STGOD4 and people are fine with it. We just need to iron out a handful more things and we're good to go.

And STGOD4 only got more dysfunctional and annoying the more rules that got heaped on it. And we've had plenty of games with workable rules systems, like Steam & Steel. It died not just once but twice.

Rules heavy STGODs have always gone belly up. Whether they start with a lot of interest or not, as people have to fix more and more things it gets to be too much and people quit. Or people discover (or create) new problems during the game, which usually results in a blow up.

I'd much rather run rules loose than try to over regulate things. In my experience that's never worked. These are STGODs, not Roll-playing games.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2007-06-15 02:16pm

Stormbringer wrote:Boohoo. Hotfoot doesn't like me. I will repeat: Whatever.

Hotfoot doesn't like you because there's a reason you're not a moderator on SDN anymore. I love how you expected me to somehow forgive you, even though you've clearly not lost your ire for me, or forget, because what you did was so minor as to not worth mentioning.

And STGOD4 only got more dysfunctional and annoying the more rules that got heaped on it. And we've had plenty of games with workable rules systems, like Steam & Steel. It died not just once but twice.

Please. STGOD4 got more dysfunctional because A. there was insufficient mod support B. things that should have been covered at the beginning of the game, like interdictors, weren't covered until nearly the end of the game C. Lame-ass bitches tried to get away with stupid shit, and wailed endlessly until they got their way or were smacked down.

The fact that you locked the OOC thread because you were losing an argument and threatened to ban me because I was trying to get you to do your job as a moderator of the game didn't help matters much either.

Rules heavy STGODs have always gone belly up. Whether they start with a lot of interest or not, as people have to fix more and more things it gets to be too much and people quit. Or people discover (or create) new problems during the game, which usually results in a blow up.

Things always discover new problems. Hence why we learn from previous STGODs and cover previously encountered problems before the new game starts. It's called learning from your mistakes, a concept you're clearly unfamiliar with.

I'd much rather run rules loose than try to over regulate things. In my experience that's never worked. These are STGODs, not Roll-playing games.

Plenty of people seem to like the current amount of rules. If what is currently on the table doesn't appeal to you, feel free not to play.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-06-15 02:21pm

For the record, I don't particularly like Hotfoot's attitude. However, I support the suggestion that he be a mod because I feel it lends some balance to the game.

Beowulf I nominated for the opposite reason, he tends to be a bit unorthodox.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2007-06-15 02:40pm

Stormbringer wrote:Hotfoot doesn't like you because there's a reason you're not a moderator on SDN anymore.

If you must continue this vendetta, at least do me the courtesy of not lying. I was not removed as an SDN mod over that and you darn well know that. I continued as a SDN mod for a good while and eventually left as I disagreed with the direction of board policy.

I was removed as game mod over that, the game continued (with me playing) and that was the end of it.

Stormbringer wrote:I love how you expected me to somehow forgive you, even though you've clearly not lost your ire for me, or forget, because what you did was so minor as to not worth mentioning.

I don't care whether you forgive me or not. Because it is over, I was removed as game mod, and it's three years in the past.

Hotfoot wrote:
I'd much rather run rules loose than try to over regulate things. In my experience that's never worked. These are STGODs, not Roll-playing games.
Plenty of people seem to like the current amount of rules. If what is currently on the table doesn't appeal to you, feel free not to play.

And if it stops there, then I think that's fine. I'm not adverse to having enough rules to provide the Structure part of STGOD.

But this is meant to be a largely free-form game. It's not an roll-playing game where everything is decided by numbers. And I'd rather see people that have managed successful STGODs and other forums games with out resorting to a lot of rules be in charge.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2007-06-15 02:59pm

Stormbringer wrote:If you must continue this vendetta, at least do me the courtesy of not lying. I was not removed as an SDN mod over that and you darn well know that. I continued as a SDN mod for a good while and eventually left as I disagreed with the direction of board policy.

I was removed as game mod over that, the game continued (with me playing) and that was the end of it.

Actually, I have no idea why you left, just that it was not too long after that whole dustup, and that it certainly didn't help your standing much. So did I assume? Yes, and I was wrong. Forgive me if I don't read all of your posts obsessively to get a clearer picture. Where'd you post your reasons for leaving anyway? I mean, if I damn well know it, I'd like to know where I missed it.

Stormbringer wrote:I don't care whether you forgive me or not. Because it is over, I was removed as game mod, and it's three years in the past.

So because it happened three years ago, it doesn't matter? Because you overstepped your boundaries as an SDN mod by abusing your mod powers to settle a dispute over a game doesn't matter? Hello, you raised the point of the quagmire that STGOD4 turned into, am I supposed to ignore your part in that?

And if it stops there, then I think that's fine. I'm not adverse to having enough rules to provide the Structure part of STGOD.

But this is meant to be a largely free-form game. It's not an roll-playing game where everything is decided by numbers. And I'd rather see people that have managed successful STGODs and other forums games with out resorting to a lot of rules be in charge.

Blah blah, overexaggeration of points, blah blah, strawman, blah blah. Perhaps you could provide an example that shows me advocating the points you seem to think I espouse?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2007-06-15 03:09pm

I'm sorry, this is all a bit surreal. Is the criticism of Hotfoot primarily because he wants Structure in a Structured TGOD?

(Yes, folks, that's what STGOD stands for. TGOD is just 'The Good Old Days' and don't ask me why; it was actual freeform and very whacky as a result.)

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-06-15 03:17pm

Can we just turn this into a poll or something and take a vote?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2007-06-15 03:22pm

SirNitram wrote:I'm sorry, this is all a bit surreal. Is the criticism of Hotfoot primarily because he wants Structure in a Structured TGOD?

I just said I didn't like his attitude, but at the same time I think it is important that one (and only one) of our mods have it. The same way I don't like taxes but don't question their necessity.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2007-06-15 03:52pm

Hotfoot:

As for my resignation as a mod, I will point out just a couple of things which should have made it clear about my resignation. First of all, at the time you were pushing to have me removed as a mod. I wasn't and I do believe Pablo told you that I was censured over it and that was the end of it. Second of all, I left about several months after the dispute. I doubt Mike or any of the other staff would have waited that long if I was to be removed. And lastly, there is the formal announcement which should still be in the staff thread. You can chose to believe or not but I believe the facts speak for themselves.

As for the whole matter, I accepted the consequences and as far as I'm concerned that is the end of the matter. It's you that can't let it go and is insisting on dragging it up because we have a difference of opinion.

As for my choices of moderator, I meant what I said and have no hidden motive. We obviously disagree on what and how much structure is necessary and on the matter of attitude towards STGODs. If you want to be a mod, fine, but please don't read more into a criticism than is there.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2007-06-15 03:55pm

SirNitram wrote:I'm sorry, this is all a bit surreal. Is the criticism of Hotfoot primarily because he wants Structure in a Structured TGOD?

(Yes, folks, that's what STGOD stands for. TGOD is just 'The Good Old Days' and don't ask me why; it was actual freeform and very whacky as a result.)

Too much structure, and we all might as well just play SE V, or whatever.

I remember old school TGODs, and those you could pull literally anything out of your ass, including yourself.