STGOD: A Dead Art?

[Stormbringer]

How about intelligence services and what not?

We've left that as purchasable on the whole. Amusingly, everyone seems after internal security, not infiltration.

I'm pretty much going with a balanced intelligence service in that regard. I figure it'll be much more useful to have them working in tandem than with one or the other overbalanced.

Besides, I remember the last STGOD had copious amounts of gun-running and other shenanigans which make me think a little bit of protection won't go amiss.

[Hotfoot]

Remember, just because you haven't spent points on it doesn't mean you don't have it, or that you suck at it.

Such things include:
Merchant fleets
Intelligence and Counterintelligence
Ground Forces and the means to transport them
Diplomatic Corps
Interstellar Communications networks
Early Warning systems
etc.

[Thirdfain]

A couple brief notes: I just discovered I'd underspent on my total points by 100; so I've gone on a brief spending spree, purchasing more escorts, cruisers, and a spiffy Signal Intelligence corps. This should be noted by all enemies of the Polish Republic

[brianeyci]

I've skimmed through most of this thread and I think it's something I can do, provided I can A. Not be a major galactic player, because I don't anticipate being available at any times and all times, and B. Pick up some really unusual powers for my aliens on their own. Something on the order of low level superpowers. I'm not talking about Superman, but shit like Catwoman, Batman, Daredevil, or low level D&D powers. The interest in me is not creating spaceships, but rather individual characters and a unique set of aliens. And unique named spaceships too.

To that end I want to create a 500 point "empire" limited to a single world, dumping a significant portion of those points into individual characters and especially my main "hero," about fifty points. The hero will be superhuman and have clearly defined powers. He will not be able to defeat an army all on his own, but due to the large point investment I would consider him able to survive any individual encounter or even escape nearly impossible odds. If this is okay with the moderators, I'll go ahead. But if I have to create a more traditional starfaring nation, then fine I can do that too.

[Noble Ire]

We're really going to need a galaxy map to make this many players feasible (of course, I would have wanted one in any event).

[Redleader34]

I have some high resloution images from NASA of the milky way if anyone wants to have a basis, or should I photosop something up?

[InnocentBystander]

I've skimmed through most of this thread and I think it's something I can do, provided I can A. Not be a major galactic player, because I don't anticipate being available at any times and all times, and B. Pick up some really unusual powers for my aliens on their own. Something on the order of low level superpowers. I'm not talking about Superman, but shit like Catwoman, Batman, Daredevil, or low level D&D powers. The interest in me is not creating spaceships, but rather individual characters and a unique set of aliens. And unique named spaceships too.

To that end I want to create a 500 point "empire" limited to a single world, dumping a significant portion of those points into individual characters and especially my main "hero," about fifty points. The hero will be superhuman and have clearly defined powers. He will not be able to defeat an army all on his own, but due to the large point investment I would consider him able to survive any individual encounter or even escape nearly impossible odds. If this is okay with the moderators, I'll go ahead. But if I have to create a more traditional starfaring nation, then fine I can do that too.

Just so you know this has been done in the past and it was not well executed. It was just one guy going around trying to be a dick, and I'll be the first one to suggest that points not be invested into individuals.

I have some high resloution images from NASA of the milky way if anyone wants to have a basis, or should I photosop something up?

I think last game hotfoot provided us with a keen little hex map that worked really well.
The scope of this game is such that having a map of the galaxy would be too large. Trek era, remember.

[Hotfoot]

We're really going to need a galaxy map to make this many players feasible (of course, I would have wanted one in any event).

We can have one similar to STGOD 4 made up, or I can break out astrosynthesis.

[Adrian Laguna]

General tech is still in, so the ground-combat thing is still good.

I feel general tech is too ambiguous. See the following scenario:

I spent 40 points making my armies better as a whole. I have a landing force of 4 million men facing a PDF twice its size. How do those 40 points affect the result? Remember that those 40 points (the cost of a BB) is spread across the entire army, not just those 4 million men. My nation has a population of 40 billion while the enemy has a population of 60 billion, so 1-1 my men are better (in the interest of proportional equality), so we have to consider that when applying the bonus. To further complicate things, what if the enemy spent 20 points in entrenchment technology?

Like I said before, general bonuses, rather than specific ones to specific units/ships/formations, is asking for trouble. There could be endless debate about how a bonus affects this and that and whether it is enough to change the outcome of a battle, etc.

[rhoenix]

For what it's worth, the star maps on the Atomic Rocket site were invaluable to me when planning for my story, as they even have markers for stars with likely inhabitable planets.

The images are .png format, and huge, but here are four different versions:

All stars within 20 ly of Sol
All stars within 30 ly of Sol
All stars within 40 ly of Sol
All stars within 50 ly of Sol

EDIT: Four versions, not three.

[brianeyci]

Just so you know this has been done in the past and it was not well executed. It was just one guy going around trying to be a dick, and I'll be the first one to suggest that points not be invested into individuals.

Hm okay, I guess one guy going around and being a dick sounds terrible.

If investing points into individuals is a bad idea, how about investing points into the race itself, say a hundred or so, and giving each person some kind of low-level power like limited telekenesis or magic missile or fireball?

I still want to play a minor power, like a 500 point empire, or nothing at all, since I can't imagine making a complete OOB and I'm new to this. I'm not particularly interested in the mechanisms, only the effect, so rather than saying I got a cruiser with .5c missiles I'll be saying my cruiser has 40 points or whatever.

[Academia Nut]

Nah, just call it an effectiveness bonus, with the difference being the difference between your points and the other guy's points. I see two ways of doing this, either divide by ten or divide by a hundred. In the first case, if you have 40 points invested in ground combat and your opponent has 0, then you are 4 times more effective in ground combat and thus if he outnumbers you 2-1 then you will overall enjoy a 2:1 force superiority. The second way is that each point invested in ground forces gives you a 1% bonus, so 40 points means your forces are 40% more effective. Do either of these systems sound fair?

[rhoenix]

Nah, just call it an effectiveness bonus, with the difference being the difference between your points and the other guy's points. I see two ways of doing this, either divide by ten or divide by a hundred. In the first case, if you have 40 points invested in ground combat and your opponent has 0, then you are 4 times more effective in ground combat and thus if he outnumbers you 2-1 then you will overall enjoy a 2:1 force superiority. The second way is that each point invested in ground forces gives you a 1% bonus, so 40 points means your forces are 40% more effective. Do either of these systems sound fair?

Both of these are a bit mathy, however, I strongly see the value in both. However, this system would have to be applied more globally than to simple infantry bonuses, as I see it.

[Adrian Laguna]

Do either of these systems sound fair?

The latter one perhaps. That would require 100 points to double the effectiveness of your armed forces, which does seems fair.

Though I point out that we still need to make force strength proportional to population. Else I'll just have my nation be 100 billion people and pwn you all on the ground.

[SirNitram]

I dunno, guys. It's more complex than addition and subtraction.

[Stormbringer]

Do either of these systems sound fair?

The latter one perhaps. That would require 100 points to double the effectiveness of your armed forces, which does seems fair.

I'd agree with that if we're going to be assigning values to it. The amount of resources invested is pretty small compared to overall military budget, so it seems unfair to have it be a huge multiplier.

[Hotfoot]

I feel general tech is too ambiguous. See the following scenario:

I spent 40 points making my armies better as a whole. I have a landing force of 4 million men facing a PDF twice its size. How do those 40 points affect the result? Remember that those 40 points (the cost of a BB) is spread across the entire army, not just those 4 million men. My nation has a population of 40 billion while the enemy has a population of 60 billion, so 1-1 my men are better (in the interest of proportional equality), so we have to consider that when applying the bonus. To further complicate things, what if the enemy spent 20 points in entrenchment technology?

Entrenchment technology is silly on the face of it. The better idea would be that they have a bonus to defense. Meanwhile, you have a benefit to attack and defense, plus a number of other factors. This alone is not enough to always win the battle, of course, since if you're facing overwhelming odds, you're still going to be crushed. My initial reaction is what Acadamia Nut suggested in the latter part of his post (1pt=1%), with super-duper special forces being restricted to mod review.

Yes, relative strength compared to population is a factor. You don't get overly gimped for having a smaller population, that has it's own drawbacks. However, there are logical limits. If you have just one person as your nation and he controls a hivemind fleet and blah blah blah he's still not going to be able to take down an entire planetary assault force single-handed without nary a scratch. Similarly, if you have a quadrillion soldiers, it's not going to be very effective either. Remember that one of the tenents is to not travel too far from the norms. Variation is fine and well, but having a platoon of Kryptonians can get stupid fast.

Like I said before, general bonuses, rather than specific ones to specific units/ships/formations, is asking for trouble.

The problem is that down that road lies expanding the points system into something much more severe than it is now. The points are a guideline to allow players to discuss relative strengths and weaknesses when they have a battle. Ground combat is relatively minor in comparison to space combat, and I don't want to get into the specific construction of a division.

[Academia Nut]

Mostly I just suggested such a situation if it ever came up that one guy would be able to field more soldiers than another, in most cases it should just be: "Okay, you have 10 points in ground combat, you have 20, the guy with 20 wins"

[Adrian Laguna]

Mostly I just suggested such a situation if it ever came up that one guy would be able to field more soldiers than another, in most cases it should just be: "Okay, you have 10 points in ground combat, you have 20, the guy with 20 wins"

The thing is that ground forces are not worth points, ergo you can't do that. I mean, if you have 20 points investment in ground combat and they have 10 points investment in ground combat but they have four times the number of troops brought to the party then they're likely going to win.

[Thirdfain]

The way I see it, a naiton's Army budget is actually going to be pretty huge. Adding 10 points of funding is actually a drop in the bucket, so to speak, and would represent only a marginal overrall improvement or a couple elite units.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Crossroads, the Space Bears accept your offering. We furry folks have to stick together.

Greatly appricated A-Wing, we shal lhave to work up more formal ties once our area is known (as of now our two powers might not even know each other)

ALso I am updated my OOB with some fluff on my Starfighter.s Yeah I kinda forgot about fighters... Need Carriers too. So next turn, when I use all my points to buy a bunch of carriers? I want allll of your to pretend I had thos from the beggining... And not, you know forgot about them...

Also... for all of you with over a dozen differet classes of ships? Up yours Seriouslly, I am going to have FIVE different ship classes when im done, just Five... If I need a spicialized ship, I'll make one, but really, Why do all of you need so many different types... IM keeping things SIMPLE! PP

[InnocentBystander]

I think everyone is getting more worked up over points and numbers than they should be. Points are a simple qualifier that you can leverage when you write up your stories.

[Rawtooth]

Noble Ire, your FTL drive isn't kosher with the rules. Any drive can be interdicted.

Might want to grab a new name? That's letter for letter a World of Warcraft raid instance.

Well duh.

Speaking as someone who has spent entirely too much time in Ahn'Qiraj, I'm going to have to raze the Empire of the Sun to the ground, and loot the ashes. I'd say it was nothing personal, but it doesn't get muc more presonal than that.

Err, shit.

[Thirdfain]

]

Crossroads, the Space Bears accept your offering. We furry folks have to stick together.

Greatly appricated A-Wing, we shal lhave to work up more formal ties once our area is known (as of now our two powers might not even know each other)[/quote]

Don't be silly. Just make with the diplomacy-ing; we can work out if you are close or not later.

[UCBooties]

To update, my OoB is up if anyone wants to take a look.