Medieval II Total War Patch 1.2 Released!

[Vympel]

I don't mean moving my armies, I simply mean moving the leader, if any, out of a plague-stricken city and waiting just outside until the plague passes. I remember in Rome, doing this was an effective way of keeping your leader from catching the plague (ie risk of death). Or does it not work that way anymore? My "characters affected" list on the end turn was truly huge.

The patch, btw, is great. I love the contexst-sensitive new messages you get during battles that they've: "our men are under attack! we must act!" and "victory will soon be ours" and so forth.

[CaptHawkeye]

The patch, btw, is great. I love the contexst-sensitive new messages you get during battles that they've: "our men are under attack! we must act!" and "victory will soon be ours" and so forth.

Indeed, I honestly think the only thing that could improve the sound bites at this point would be to add effects by R. Lee Ermy a la Full Metal Jacket. Who doesn't want R. Lee Ermy yelling at them?

Generic plagues you're best sitting still. If you move the army anywhere else, it's likely to spread. Haven't had the Black Plague though.

Personally, the only time in the entire game I ever thought my Empire was coming anywhere close to collapse was during the Black Plauge. The generic plauges I barely take the time to consider anymore. Since they do such small amounts of damage to the garrison and populace I barely consider it worth time to even check up on the place. Of course, i've just been playing on medium. It's probably time to emerge from the bed sheets and play the game like a real man.

[Eulogy]

What about sending infected to enemy cities?

[Darth Wong]

As I haven't (until tonight) played since April (so says my save game) - does the same hold true for Jihads? IIRC it does (as the Greeks I held off a fair few against Constantinople).

No idea. I've had a Jihad declared against me when I was England and when I was Spain, but I only ever had one army actually show up to attack me. It's nothing like the Christian hordes that stream into the Middle East upon the declaration of a Crusade.

What time do the Timurids show up? The Byzantine game I left in April, it's 1350, and I'm in trouble, as the Black Death has hit and pushing end turn I'm on negative -7000 florins, losing ~4,000 soldiers (and 110,000 civilians) to the plague across my Empire (nealy the whole map excluding Romania, Poland, Russia and England except for London which I just took).

I don't remember the date. I know they show up after the Black Plague and after the development of gunpowder, with plenty of margin for building cannon towers at all of your citadels and huge cities. Just forget about expanding your empire or managing your cities for a few turns (it takes too long to retrain everyone each turn) and just keep hitting "next turn" until it passes, then start managing your cities again.

What should you do with your generals if they're in a plague city? Leave in there, or take them out before they've caught it and wait it out? Are they guranteed to die from plague?

Generally speaking, by the time you find out that the plague has hit a certain city, the generals almost certainly have it already so there's no point moving them out. A general with plague will actually recover faster when he's in a city because of the public health facilities there. And no, they certainly aren't guaranteed to die from plague. Some of them will, but most of them will recover.

[Vympel]

Ah- dammit shouldn't have moved some of my generals out. I'll put em back in. I've got too many generals anyway. It used to be, in Rome, governors were generally good, but in Medieval if you put them in a prosperous city for too long they become Royally/Wildly/ Obsenely/ What the Fuck How Could You Spend That Much/ Extravagant and become a big liability to your bottom line- not so much an issue after you've finished the game (and your profits are obscene regardless), but it's an annoyance nonetheless. I prefer cheapskate generals.

No idea. I've had a Jihad declared against me when I was England and when I was Spain, but I only ever had one army actually show up to attack me. It's nothing like the Christian hordes that stream into the Middle East upon the declaration of a Crusade.

If you ever play the Greeks, you'll be on the receiving end of Jihad hordes like those of the Crusaders making for Constantinople - it ain't pleasant. And what's more, you've got asshole Crusaders coming the other way towards the Holy Land.

I don't remember the date. I know they show up after the Black Plague and after the development of gunpowder, with plenty of margin for building cannon towers at all of your citadels and huge cities. Just forget about expanding your empire or managing your cities for a few turns (it takes too long to retrain everyone each turn) and just keep hitting "next turn" until it passes, then start managing your cities again.

Yup, I've got cannon towers defending all my settlements, practically (that could conceivably be threatened- no need to put cannon towers in say, Paris). I've even got fully formed armies encamped in forts around likely target settlements (like Mosul and Baghdad) just waiting for the assault- not to face them in the open, of course, but to hang back, watch them smash uselessly against the defences, and then mop up. Like I'm doing to the Mongols now (they lifted their seige of Sofia that took ages, and are heading further west, deeper into my territory, and their shattered remnants are being chased by two full strength armies).

[RazorOutlaw]

I've even got fully formed armies encamped in forts around likely target settlements (like Mosul and Baghdad) just waiting for the assault- not to face them in the open, of course, but to hang back, watch them smash uselessly against the defences, and then mop up. Like I'm doing to the Mongols now (they lifted their seige of Sofia that took ages, and are heading further west, deeper into my territory, and their shattered remnants are being chased by two full strength armies).

I would imagine that using this tactic, you have militia units in these forts and thus don't spend money? I wish I could explain what happened in my first Spainish campaign, but I had a really hard time getting money DESPITE all of the territory I held. A lot of expidenture went towards crooked generals and the armies I had trying to defend my territories.

[Vympel]

I would imagine that using this tactic, you have militia units in these forts and thus don't spend money?

Forts, IIRC, don't get the militia bonus. I just never had a cash crunch until now (which I'm sure will pass after the plague does).

You do have shitloads of merchants right?

What I'd do is quickly reinforce the fort that is the likely target with a field army if it doesn't have one encamped within - there's never an army too far away from anywhere in my Empire except in newly-conquered France (because all those armies are waiting at the coast to board boats to England).

In Sofia's case, a highly experienced army was already there, as it had been the target of repeated Hungarian attacks for the entire game (I didn't conquer Hungary as they were an amusing buffer).

One good thing about the Byzantine's old-fashioned units in the end game is that your units are highly experienced and they're not replaced with anything better. You'll have the spectacular Vardariotai from the start.

[PeZook]

Dammit!

I installed the 1.2 patch and gleefully started another game as Poland. It's all well and good, except that my goddamned merchants do not bring in more than 100 gold! In other words, they are just as useless as they were before the patch. Weren't they supposed to bring you more and more and more money as time progressed? My best merchant has 10 finance, has been trading amber all his life and brings in a piddling 80 florins a turn.

[Raesene]

Dammit!

I installed the 1.2 patch and gleefully started another game as Poland. It's all well and good, except that my goddamned merchants do not bring in more than 100 gold! In other words, they are just as useless as they were before the patch. Weren't they supposed to bring you more and more and more money as time progressed? My best merchant has 10 finance, has been trading amber all his life and brings in a piddling 80 florins a turn.

My gold merchant in West Afica brings me 700+ florins in patch 1.2
Your merchant is probably too close to your capital or on a cheap trade good.

Old news for you, but I discovered taking over enemy merchants to boost my income. Works nicely, and results in a few hundret florins most of the time. (If it doesn't work, there are always assassins as 'Plan B'...)

[PeZook]

My gold merchant in West Afica brings me 700+ florins in patch 1.2
Your merchant is probably too close to your capital or on a cheap trade good.

Old news for you, but I discovered taking over enemy merchants to boost my income. Works nicely, and results in a few hundret florins most of the time. (If it doesn't work, there are always assassins as 'Plan B'...)

Well, amber is supposed to be a rather good resource, right? Certainly should earn me more than 100 florins.

The thing is that money merchants bring still don't seem to increase in with turns that pass on their assigned resources. It may be the "gunpowder for everyone" mod I installed (which doesn't work as advertised, BTW )

[wautd]

Long time I played but this patch seems worth and update and a new game

[Raesene]

My gold merchant in West Afica brings me 700+ florins in patch 1.2
Your merchant is probably too close to your capital or on a cheap trade good.

Old news for you, but I discovered taking over enemy merchants to boost my income. Works nicely, and results in a few hundret florins most of the time. (If it doesn't work, there are always assassins as 'Plan B'...)

Well, amber is supposed to be a rather good resource, right? Certainly should earn me more than 100 florins.

The thing is that money merchants bring still don't seem to increase in with turns that pass on their assigned resources. It may be the "gunpowder for everyone" mod I installed (which doesn't work as advertised, BTW )

The mod could be responsible - you have to choose: more money, or better toys
My merchants bevome better with time, so in pure 1.2 I do not have this problem.

[Vympel]

You don't need a mod- just have the merchants go very far. My merchant in the absolute southern-most province of the map (the last province along the nile) is pulling in obscene amounts of florins, and I make sure to replace them whenever they die.

Oh, and has anyone ever actually taken that province which is next to Timbuktu? I didn't even know it fucking existed until the other day until my spy saw the border. I thought it was a dead-zone. It's definitely neutral. But fuck does it have a lot of resources! I've got to send merchants.

[Dartzap]

You don't need a mod- just have the merchants go very far. My merchant in the absolute southern-most province of the map (the last province along the nile) is pulling in obscene amounts of florins, and I make sure to replace them whenever they die.

Oh, and has anyone ever actually taken that province which is next to Timbuktu? I didn't even know it fucking existed until the other day until my spy saw the border. I thought it was a dead-zone. It's definitely neutral. But fuck does it have a lot of resources! I've got to send merchants.

The only time I ever got anyone to there was to actually ship them in with Carracks, due to the fact all other types of vassals are unable to reach it.

[Raesene]

Oh, and has anyone ever actually taken that province which is next to Timbuktu? I didn't even know it fucking existed until the other day until my spy saw the border. I thought it was a dead-zone. It's definitely neutral. But fuck does it have a lot of resources! I've got to send merchants.

Yes, I conquered it last evening as moors after sending my army through the sahara to Timbuktu and then west - took ages, but the trade goods are earning me a lot of cash.

EDIT: sending an army south by klicking into the desert did not work, I had to use the fertile land south of Timbuktu as target before the army started to move. Seems my troops do not want to be sent into the desert to explore . This way, you do not have to look for the right path through the Atlas mountain range.

[D.Turtle]

What about sending infected to enemy cities?

Thats the deadliest, most cost-efficient way of defeating your enemies I have found.

What you do is:
1) Train lots of spies.
2) Find a city with a plague.
3) Move a spy into the infected city - your spy is now ALWAYS infected.
4) Move said spy into any uninfected city - the city is now ALWAYS infected.
5) Rinse and repeat, replacing spies that die from the plague, and reinfecting spies and cities after they are no longer infected.

Using this tactic is extremely cheap - it only costs the cost of some spies and their upkeep and it also saves you the money of having to keep a large army, as tt utterly destroys the enemies economy - Usually an enemy you use this tactic on soon has his cities almost unprotected, and is unable to field any, or only tiny, field armies). You also do not have to declare war to use this on an enemy - so you can weaken him before declaring war, making any war an extremely easy and short endeavor.

In short: Using this tactic makes the game entirely too easy (And yes, that is on VH/VH).

[PeZook]

You don't need a mod- just have the merchants go very far. My merchant in the absolute southern-most province of the map (the last province along the nile) is pulling in obscene amounts of florins, and I make sure to replace them whenever they die.

Oh, and has anyone ever actually taken that province which is next to Timbuktu? I didn't even know it fucking existed until the other day until my spy saw the border. I thought it was a dead-zone. It's definitely neutral. But fuck does it have a lot of resources! I've got to send merchants.

Jesus, I can't believe I didn't think of that before. I started spamming merchants like crazy in my Crusade territorries and boy - the most basic merchant with 1-2 finance brings in 150-200 florins a turn. I can only drool at the prospect of level 10 merchants within a few years. Also, they can take over silly saracen merchants now, so I rake in obscene amounts of cash every turn.

Also, Crusade mercenaries break the game when you can get them
Especially since you can recruit some of these units even when not on a Crusade.
A unit of dismounted knights for 220 florins? Count me in!
BTW, can you retrain mercenaries up to full strenght, or do you have to hire a new unit and redistribute the men?

Oh, another thing. Hi-level Polish cavalry is fucking deadly. Polish Guards can literally charge right into egyptian spearmen and crush them, taking little casualties. You should've seen what they can do when a mass of Turks try crossing a bridge, and the fucking Polish Guards charge right into the seething mass of troops that make it to your side...

[Raesene]

You don't need a mod- just have the merchants go very far. My merchant in the absolute southern-most province of the map (the last province along the nile) is pulling in obscene amounts of florins, and I make sure to replace them whenever they die.

Oh, and has anyone ever actually taken that province which is next to Timbuktu? I didn't even know it fucking existed until the other day until my spy saw the border. I thought it was a dead-zone. It's definitely neutral. But fuck does it have a lot of resources! I've got to send merchants.

Jesus, I can't believe I didn't think of that before. I started spamming merchants like crazy in my Crusade territorries and boy - the most basic merchant with 1-2 finance brings in 150-200 florins a turn. I can only drool at the prospect of level 10 merchants within a few years. Also, they can take over silly saracen merchants now, so I rake in obscene amounts of cash every turn.

Told you before The economic route is not bad, my finances are as good as never efore when playing the game although my Empire is suffering the Black Death now.
I think I'll be nasty and deal with the English by using the infected spies - fitting revenge as I lost Paris to them and want it back...before it gets cold

[GuppyShark]

BTW, can you retrain mercenaries up to full strenght, or do you have to hire a new unit and redistribute the men?

If there's mercenaries of the same type available in the region to recruit, you can retrain your existing units.

[Darth Wong]

You don't need a mod- just have the merchants go very far. My merchant in the absolute southern-most province of the map (the last province along the nile) is pulling in obscene amounts of florins, and I make sure to replace them whenever they die.

Oh, and has anyone ever actually taken that province which is next to Timbuktu? I didn't even know it fucking existed until the other day until my spy saw the border. I thought it was a dead-zone. It's definitely neutral. But fuck does it have a lot of resources! I've got to send merchants.

Jesus, I can't believe I didn't think of that before. I started spamming merchants like crazy in my Crusade territorries and boy - the most basic merchant with 1-2 finance brings in 150-200 florins a turn. I can only drool at the prospect of level 10 merchants within a few years. Also, they can take over silly saracen merchants now, so I rake in obscene amounts of cash every turn.

Also, Crusade mercenaries break the game when you can get them
Especially since you can recruit some of these units even when not on a Crusade.
A unit of dismounted knights for 220 florins? Count me in!
BTW, can you retrain mercenaries up to full strenght, or do you have to hire a new unit and redistribute the men?

Oh, another thing. Hi-level Polish cavalry is fucking deadly. Polish Guards can literally charge right into egyptian spearmen and crush them, taking little casualties. You should've seen what they can do when a mass of Turks try crossing a bridge, and the fucking Polish Guards charge right into the seething mass of troops that make it to your side...

The funniest kind of bridge battle is the late-game bridge battle, when you have musketeers. Musketeers have enough range to shoot from one end of a bridge to the other (and not just a tiny bridge, but a decent-sized bridge like the one at Antioch), so you can line up your musketeers on your side of the river and pump his army full of lead until he flees. Line up some cannons behind them for extra fun. Of course, it can get dicey if he has artillery of his own, but I find that musketeers kill enemies so quickly and accurately that you can just take the enemy cannon fire and still win handily.

[Vympel]

The funniest bridge battle I ever had was when Milan (quite a power in my game, for a time) attacked my field army waiting at one of the Italian bridges (not the one leading into Venice, but nearby)with two full stacks. This was before I had checked "unlimited men on the battlefield", so after I defeated the first stack in the classic-for-the-Byzantine fashion (ie. Bombard fire, Byzantine Guard Archer fire, Dismounted Latinikon/ Byzantine Spearmen defending the bridge, then the cavalry charge to mop up the runners) I noticed there was a forest on the other side of the river.

So I moved all my cavalry (4x Vardariotai, 1x Byzantine Lancer, 1x Kataphraktoi, 1x Latinikon) except for my general into the forest, waited until the enemy had fully committed to crossing the bridge in one giant, idiot mass, then charged them from the rear at the same tme they crashed into the defending infantry at the front.

That bridge was absolutely littered with corpses, none of the second army got out alive.

[Darth Wong]

Mind you, nothing in M2TW can compare to the hysterically funny insanity of bridge battles in RTW:BI. Line up plumbatarii to defend your end of the bridge, archers behind them, and carriage ballistae on the flanks and watch men literally being blown off the bridge in groups, their bodies floating down the river. And then the pitiful survivors finally get close to your end of the bridge after running that gauntlet, you see all those plumbatarii pull their arms back to hurl those iron darts at the chokepoint, and ... a thing of beauty.

[Vympel]

That's one thing I don't get- AFAIK, in M2TW bodies can't get "thrown" by ballista like they could in BI, so you're never treated to the sight of bodies floating in the water.

Maybe they'll bring it back for the expansion.

[The Vortex Empire]

Couldn't a shot from one of the gunpowder artilleries with exploding ammo knock them off?

[Darth Wong]

Couldn't a shot from one of the gunpowder artilleries with exploding ammo knock them off?

For one thing, cannons aren't as accurate as ballista and you would just get a ton of shots going over their heads or under the bridge if you fired from the side. For another, people fly up in the air and then fall back down in M2TW when they get hit, rather than flying in the direction of the projectile that hit them.