Format war over?

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Format war over?

Post by Max »

This wasn't directed at me, but I was hoping I could get some help with this.
It's time for you to admit that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about, shut up, and leave the discussion about Blu-ray and HD-DVD to the people who know about it.

Number one, Sony's not forcing you to get anything at all. Believe it or not, you have the option to not buy a PlayStation 3. It's ****ing crazy! And don't even sit there high and mighty, acting like the only reason you won't get a PS3 is because Sony's forcing Blu-ray on you like a drunk girl at prom. Seriously, shut the **** up with that nonsense. You're a fanboy, through and through. Get over it and quit trying to hide it. It's not even worth the attempt with you.

Number two, you can watch Blu-ray at 720p/1080i over component cables. What a surprise! Yet another lie from Rogue Gamecube! I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that if you want HDMI 1.2 (yet another Microsoft cost-cutting maneuver in a model they charge more money for), you will have to pony up $479 USD + $199 USD for the HD-DVD player.

Number three, I find it beyond ironic that a crazy-ass, rabid Nintendo fanboy who thinks that there's more than two good games worth playing on the Nintendo Wii is going to sit there and tell me that there's only two good games on PS3. Stop smoking the crack and actually look, would you? As far as waiting until 2008, that argument applies to the Wii far more than it does the PS3. There are so many PS3-exclusive titles coming out this year that blow away the Wii lineup and is right up there with the 360's lineup. It's arguably better than the 360's lineup on paper. But of course, you wouldn't know that because you're a pathetic fanboy trying to justify your two Gamecubes duct-taped together with waggle wand features. How's that treating you in these long periods between good releases? You know that within two weeks, Rainbow Six: Vegas, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, and The Darkness will be out on the PS3, right? Granted, two of those are on the Xbox 360 as well, but it's a whole lot more and a whole lot better than the Wii lineup that you so desperately defend.

Number four, I'm not even sure how I knew that you were going to spew Peter Moore's rhetoric about "choice" out of your anus. I mean, the instant I saw that you had posted in this thread, I knew from that instant that you would try that. You think Microsoft's giving you a choice? That's a shitty ****ing "choice", man. HD-DVD or nothing? You'll probably spew out more bullshit about "RAH RAH SONY MAKES YOU BUY BLU-RAY WITH EVERY PS3, PHIL HARRISON ATE A BABY, BLU-RAY ELECTED GEORGE BUSH". So the **** what? I knew that going in. It's not a problem for me. If there were actual "choice" on the Xbox 360, you'd get the option to buy a Blu-ray drive, too. The only choice you get is whether or not your system plays HD-DVD at all. And as far as HD-DVD players go, the Xbox 360 + HD-DVD is a shitty, shitty, and expensive choice. You can do way better than that in terms of HD-DVD players.

Number five, Blu-ray has more releases than HD-DVD. It's part of that whole "vastly more studios release Blu-ray titles than on HD-DVD" thing. Blu-ray's hardly useless.

Number six, if $200 is nothing, I want you to send me $200 right now. If you're so ****ing rich that you think $200 is nothing, that should be no problem for you. You keep acting like $600 is "WHOAMG EXPENSIVE", but somehow, $200 is nothing and spending $400 + $200 is a good deal. You're such a ****ing tool, it isn't funny, man.

You think I'm the only one who thinks this format war is practically over? The sales don't lie, dumbass. For someone who about came all over himself in the other thread about Wii support over the sales, you sure turned a hypocritical 180 there, man!

Number seven, I never said Blu-ray was mainstream yet. Stop saying that I said things I didn't. It makes you look more like a dumbass when you do it, as difficult as that is sometimes. I will say that although the format war is getting closer to near-total Blu-ray domination, it isn't over yet. When the desperate HD-DVD fire sales don't work and when titles like the Matrix Trilogies keep tanking on HD-DVD, you have got to be the stupidest person alive to believe that there's a future for HD-DVD. They are profiting over there in the Blu-ray camp. That's where the money is.
I can't figure out if this guy is just a raving BR/PS3 fanboy, or if he's right. Are the format wars pretty much over? I figured that they were still too new to really determine that, regardless of the support. Any help would be welcomed. Not sure if should have put this in Testing or not...
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Post by Ace Pace »

He's a raving PS3 fanboy, who is kinda right, Blu-ray IS out selling HD-DVD in the united states, 3:1 if I recall correctly.
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Post by Max »

Aren't the systems pretty new though? That ratio could be from early adopters of the PS3 and not entirely indicative of what the trend will eventually be. I just feel like that whole post was his knee-jerk reaction...
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

I was about to correct you with 2-1, but you're right, it is up to 3-1 now:
The Digital Bits wrote:HIGH-DEF MARKET SHARE - BRD VS HD-DVD SOFTWARE SALES (6/10/07 - Nielsen/VideoScan):

Week Ending 6/10
Blu-ray Disc: 66
HD-DVD: 34

Year to Date
Blu-ray Disc: 67
HD-DVD: 33

Since Inception
Blu-ray Disc: 59
HD-DVD: 41

Movie titles only (videogame titles not included) - Includes HD-DVD/DVD Combo Format
Additionally, Blockbuster Video just announced today that when they start offering HD format next month, they'll only be carrying Blu-ray in their stores, after test marketing showed a 70% preference for the format by customers over HD-DVD.
Last edited by Spanky The Dolphin on 2007-06-18 11:43am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ace Pace »

Max wrote:Aren't the systems pretty new though? That ratio could be from early adopters of the PS3 and not entirely indicative of what the trend will eventually be. I just feel like that whole post was his knee-jerk reaction...
It's from sales of Blu-ray movies, rather then drives.
The entire post was pretty much stupid and can be hacked apart easily, give Praxis a few hours to notice this joke of an anti-Wii post and he'll do it.
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Post by Max »

Ace Pace wrote:
Max wrote:Aren't the systems pretty new though? That ratio could be from early adopters of the PS3 and not entirely indicative of what the trend will eventually be. I just feel like that whole post was his knee-jerk reaction...
It's from sales of Blu-ray movies, rather then drives.
The entire post was pretty much stupid and can be hacked apart easily, give Praxis a few hours to notice this joke of an anti-Wii post and he'll do it.
I'm sorry, I meant that the PS3 early adopters were the ones driving the BRD sales. I don't know anyone who owns an HD-DVD player or a BR player...aside from PS3 owners.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

It's absolutely correct to say that Blu-ray is winning the HD format war, but that post up in the OP is just an incoherent fanboy rant.

While the format war is definitely not over, it will probably be over sometime soon, with Blu-ray looking to be the obvious victor if things proceed as they have been for the last few months. The Digital Bits is betting for either the end of Q4 2007 or the beginning of Q2 2008.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Max wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:
Max wrote:Aren't the systems pretty new though? That ratio could be from early adopters of the PS3 and not entirely indicative of what the trend will eventually be. I just feel like that whole post was his knee-jerk reaction...
It's from sales of Blu-ray movies, rather then drives.
The entire post was pretty much stupid and can be hacked apart easily, give Praxis a few hours to notice this joke of an anti-Wii post and he'll do it.
I'm sorry, I meant that the PS3 early adopters were the ones driving the BRD sales. I don't know anyone who owns an HD-DVD player or a BR player...aside from PS3 owners.
I wouldn't say that Blu-ray's success is entirely or mostly dependent on PS3 owners, but the initial greater affordability of the PS3 compared to dedicated BR players at launch and for a while after certainly helped to some degree.
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Post by FedRebel »

I would say it's over

Blu-Ray discs are rotting apparently

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857067
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Re: Format war over?

Post by Xisiqomelir »

Max wrote:I can't figure out if this guy is just a raving BR/PS3 fanboy, or if he's right.
Let's have a look at his points:

1) Sony not forcing Blu-Ray down anyone's throat - Nonsense. Can you buy a BR-less PS3? Nope.

2) 720p/1080i BR movie playback over component - True. Also true: No HDMI 1.3 on Xbox360+HD-DVD add-on.

3) More than 2 good games on the PS3 - True, barely. Resistance, Motorstorm and exclusive for a few months longer Virtua Fighter 5. There's going to be a good deal more by December.

4) PS3 gives you choice as to features? No. Peter Moore's version of "choice" = accessory rape? True

5) True

6) $200 is not nothing, and the 360 HD-DVD add-on price + Premium SKU is the same price as a 60GB PS3, and still not at feature parity.

7) No HD format is mainstream yet
Are the format wars pretty much over? I figured that they were still too new to really determine that, regardless of the support.
Blockbuster has declared for Blu-Ray. It's over.
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Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

I was inititally surprised that Blu-Ray surged ahead, but it makes sense in retrospect. ~100K units per month may not be very good for a new console, but it's a shitload for a player of a new video format, so that gives a much larger installed base of BD players. Still, the important thing is which one hits sub-$200 first, and especially which one hits sub-$100 first, and both of those will almost certainly be HD-DVD players. The question is whether BD will already have hit critical mass by then, and I don't know the answer to that. My gut says no, but that has a lot more to do with ill will toward Sony than rational analysis.
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Post by Praxis »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I was inititally surprised that Blu-Ray surged ahead, but it makes sense in retrospect. ~100K units per month may not be very good for a new console, but it's a shitload for a player of a new video format, so that gives a much larger installed base of BD players. Still, the important thing is which one hits sub-$200 first, and especially which one hits sub-$100 first, and both of those will almost certainly be HD-DVD players. The question is whether BD will already have hit critical mass by then, and I don't know the answer to that. My gut says no, but that has a lot more to do with ill will toward Sony than rational analysis.
It shouldn't be, though; more people watch movies than play video games.

The fact that more PS3's have been sold than HD-DVD players basically shows that BOTH formats have gotten off to an abysmal start and Blu-ray is just doing a little less badly.
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Post by White Haven »

No surprise there, nobody wants to get stuck on the wrong side of Betamax 2.0.
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Post by SirNitram »

Meh. The format war ends when someone dethrones DVD, not before.
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Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Praxis wrote:
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I was inititally surprised that Blu-Ray surged ahead, but it makes sense in retrospect. ~100K units per month may not be very good for a new console, but it's a shitload for a player of a new video format, so that gives a much larger installed base of BD players. Still, the important thing is which one hits sub-$200 first, and especially which one hits sub-$100 first, and both of those will almost certainly be HD-DVD players. The question is whether BD will already have hit critical mass by then, and I don't know the answer to that. My gut says no, but that has a lot more to do with ill will toward Sony than rational analysis.
It shouldn't be, though; more people watch movies than play video games.

The fact that more PS3's have been sold than HD-DVD players basically shows that BOTH formats have gotten off to an abysmal start and Blu-ray is just doing a little less badly.
Yes, but the vast majority of movie watchers are perfectly content with DVD's picture quality already, and not willing to fork over lots of cash on a new format that might be gone in a few years. That's why I said it's a shitload for a player of a new video format.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Yeah, I don't give a shit about either format.

The thing about the HD formats is that their backers want to believe it will be like DVD dethroning VHS all over again. However, when DVD took down VHS, you could see the difference in picture quality on any TV set, not just special high-priced bleeding-edge TV sets. You also got a shitload of new features, like menus and onscreen games and multiple soundtracks and 5.1 channel surround sound, all of which were impossible with VHS. Not to mention no longer having to rewind the damned tape: something that us old-timers will remember without fondness.

There's nothing like that to drive people to adopt either HD format. The leap from "no features" to menus and other fancy features was done already with DVD. The addition of digital surround sound was done already with DVD. The extra picture quality is totally academic unless you have a special TV. Hell, even if you do have an HDTV, will you really want to buy a special HD version of a movie unless you're a hardcore movie purist? Suppose your wife says she wants to take it upstairs and watch it on the little bedroom TV? Oops, that's a regular TV with a regular DVD player! Can't watch it there!
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Post by White Haven »

It parallels the problems Microsoft is having with Vista. Sure, XP had the same sort of issues when it was new. But the alternative, for many people was Windows ME.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Whenever someone claims a platform that is generally maligned has "plenty of good games" and doesn't proceed to give a list, I call bullshit.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Darth Wong wrote:There's nothing like that to drive people to adopt either HD format. The leap from "no features" to menus and other fancy features was done already with DVD. The addition of digital surround sound was done already with DVD. The extra picture quality is totally academic unless you have a special TV. Hell, even if you do have an HDTV, will you really want to buy a special HD version of a movie unless you're a hardcore movie purist? Suppose your wife says she wants to take it upstairs and watch it on the little bedroom TV? Oops, that's a regular TV with a regular DVD player! Can't watch it there!
That's why I'm kind of rooting for Blu-Ray. As much as I hate Sony (see my other threads), the only discernable advantage I can see to either format doesn't even have to do with movies, but with capacity. It's pretty appealing to me to be able to have an optical disk that has the same capacity as a laptop HDD I was buying thirty months ago, or a spindle that could easily duplicate my entire HDD. Of course, Blu-Ray burners aren't likely to come down in price enough to be practical for ages. Still, the size is bigger than HD-DVD....
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Post by Darth Wong »

Wouldn't it be funny if the next "big" format completely bypassed both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, which never became more than niche products?
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Post by Dennis Toy »

Yeah, I don't give a shit about either format.

The thing about the HD formats is that their backers want to believe it will be like DVD dethroning VHS all over again. However, when DVD took down VHS, you could see the difference in picture quality on any TV set, not just special high-priced bleeding-edge TV sets. You also got a shitload of new features, like menus and onscreen games and multiple soundtracks and 5.1 channel surround sound, all of which were impossible with VHS. Not to mention no longer having to rewind the damned tape: something that us old-timers will remember without fondness.

There's nothing like that to drive people to adopt either HD format. The leap from "no features" to menus and other fancy features was done already with DVD. The addition of digital surround sound was done already with DVD. The extra picture quality is totally academic unless you have a special TV. Hell, even if you do have an HDTV, will you really want to buy a special HD version of a movie unless you're a hardcore movie purist? Suppose your wife says she wants to take it upstairs and watch it on the little bedroom TV? Oops, that's a regular TV with a regular DVD player! Can't watch it there!

Tell you the truth, Like yourself, i just don't see what's really supposed to be special about both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD anyway? Some would say it has 1080i with more resolution lines... BIG DEAL... what's wrong with DVD's definition anyway? Its the most clearest picture ever! It's movie theatre definition DAMMIT! What more can you ask for? It has 5.1 Surround, Movie Theatre quality! Menus, multiple languages and interactive content, Again what more can you ask for?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Well, on a huge HDTV screen, the new formats will look noticeably better, but only for certain films that have enough picture clarity to make it worthwhile. A lot of films will look the same because there's enough grain in the original film to overwhelm the slight subjective difference. But that feature (which is the only benefit of the new formats) doesn't hold a candle to the huge jump in features and convenience that DVD represented over VHS.
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Post by Dennis Toy »

A lot of films will have that quality lacking because they were filmed on analog film ( i mean filmstrip made of chemicals) and processed through analog processing as supposed to being filmed digitally and then processed digitally as they are today. The obvious difference is that film is a physical format as supposed to a digital format which is stored inside a hard disk or a computer mainframe. Some films lose quality further as they are processed for HD because they weren't shot using HD processes.
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Post by Durandal »

Dennis Toy wrote:Tell you the truth, Like yourself, i just don't see what's really supposed to be special about both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD anyway? Some would say it has 1080i with more resolution lines... BIG DEAL... what's wrong with DVD's definition anyway? Its the most clearest picture ever! It's movie theatre definition DAMMIT! What more can you ask for? It has 5.1 Surround, Movie Theatre quality! Menus, multiple languages and interactive content, Again what more can you ask for?
I agree that neither HD-DVD nor BluRay is very compelling, but you're just dead wrong. DVD's definition is nothing even resembling theatre definition. But from 15 feet back, you really can't tell except in high-action scenes. And the audio on HD-DVD and BluRay is far, far better than what's offered on DVD. DVD audio is actually very low bitrate, especially spread across 6 channels.

But I do think that one of them will win out, and soon, for a very simple reason. Regular DVDs look like ass on an HDTV. And the FCC is enforcing HDTV upgrades within the next few years. As HDTV becomes more popular and affordable, the difference in quality will be more perceptible. But this will be the only thing driving the HD media adoption, and you can bet it'll be a shitload slower than the DVD adoption. DVD was adopted insanely quickly for the reasons Mike mentioned. The next format will have to slog through a lot of inertia to establish itself.
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Post by Sephirius »

This just further supports my theory that Sony deliberately launched the PS3 too early just to get a leg up on HD-DVD. In essence, they've said fuck you to the gaming market, while using them to win the format war. Well played Sony, well played.

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