Gears of War Locust vs. Star Wars Imperial ground forces

[chitoryu12]

Due to an old inability to come up with original scenarios, I am trying to redeem myself with this. The numbers would be the entire Locust army, not counting air forces, and the Empire would consist of an army of equal size and strength.

The Locust, for those who do not know, are an underground (as in under the planet in tunnel systems) alien species of the planet Sera, who fought the humans for over fourteen years. They are very tough. Even the standard grunt could take several high-powered rifle shells to the head, while their armor allows for short protection against heavy machine gun bursts. They are mostly armed with the Hammerburst assault rifle/light machine gun. Certain Locust are armed with light rocket launchers, explosive arrows, and shotguns.

This will go over the possible tactics for certain situations they may face in the war. Again, it is ground forces only, which means no aerial support for the Empire and no Kryll (swarms of bat/bird crossovers which eat people in the dark like flying pirahnnas) for the Locust, nor Reavers, big tentacled jellyfish-like flyers that have machine gun turrets on the back.

The Locust grub is the standard grunt for the Locust forces. They are usually armed with the Hammerburst. The Hammerburst is a large rifle, verging on LMG, which appears to fire plasma-encased shells (while casings fly from the rifle, the shots are glowing red and create a burn on the objects hit). The Hammerburst, however, is a poor suppresion choice in that it fires in three-shot bursts. For suppresion, the grubs can use Troika machine guns, large double-barreled mounted weapons that fire shells at least .50 caliber in size, with the power to easily dismember unarmored organics. Some grubs carry Gnasher shotguns, which are standard pump-action weapons. Most carry morning-star shaped HE grenades. A small number carry captured Lancer assault rifles in the game, but we're pretending that the humans and their weapons are gone.

The Boomer is almost twice the size of a grub. Strong enough to take long bursts from a .50 caliber machine gun to the head, they can also easily fling soldiers with brute force. They are all armed with the Boomshot rocket launcher, a single-shot gun that fires a rocket-propelled grenade a short distance. Upon hitting an organic, it concentrates the explosive force in a relatively small area about five feet in diameter or less, but with the strenght to blow apart soldiers. When a shot hits a solid object, it creates a cluster bomb effect, setting off several smaller explosions nearby, though underpowered.

Wretches are monkey-like creatures, stupid and wild. They are small, but can rip an unarmed man to shreds. They carry no weapons, are fairly fast, and can cling to walls and ceilings and crawl along them. However, they are very weak. A single blaster bolt would most likely punch through their light armor and kill them instantly. We will also pretend that Luminous Wretches, which consumed Imulsion, an energy source uncovered by the humans, are not around, due to a lack of humans. Thus, no wretches will have glowing eyes, nor will they explode upon death.

Theron guards are around seven feet tall and act as commanders for the Locust. Because they cannot carry Lancer rifles, they will be replaced with Hammerbursts. Most of them still carry Torque Bows, mechanically-enhanced bows that fire explosive arrows and have blades on the bowshaft. If the penetration does not kill, the grenade tip will. Some also have shotguns, and a number carry Boltok revolvers, which could most likely puncture stormtrooper armor, or at least have the concussive force to knock them flat on their asses.

Berserkers are insane creatures to kill. Around ten feet in height and bulging with muscle, the creatures (who are all female, for an unknown reason), can bash a soldier into peices. Unfortunately, they are also completely blind. While unable to see, they have extremely acute hearing and smell, allowing them to locate prey even on top of a moving train. They seem to have some kind of internal armor plating, as bullet hits create sparks and heavy lasers in-game cause their skin to heat up orange like metal. Only heavy laser cannons could easily down a Berserker. The beast can smash through metal simply by running through it, can would be a match for any Imperial soldier.

Corpsers act as giant tanks for the Locust. Huge praying mantis-style beasts, they appear rarely in-game, and would thus be an uncommon site in the battles against the Empire. They are very well-armored, and could sustain long bursts against multiple heavy repeating blasters. They could easily topple walkers, if not fling smaller ones.

Seeders are extremely uncommon, and may appear very rarely in the war. They burrow their heads into the ground, and expel Nemecyst, floating jellyfish-like creatures which explode near enemies like floating mines, from their....anal regions. When seriously injured, Seeders will tunnel deep into Sera and relocate.

My Decision

This is a very tough decision to make, due to both sides having serious advantages over the other.

The Locust's biggest advantage is that with their series of tunnels, they can form Emergence Holes and pop up almost anywhere, dispelling almost a dozen soldiers each from a smaller one, and an entire Corpser from a large one. They could easily appear behind enemy lines, forcing the Empire to form bases with thick metal floors and cover all areas equally, causing a thin covering of the planet. Due to a lack of air support, the option of simply dropping turbolaser blast after turbolaser blast and burying the aliens would not be an option. Emergence holes also close up very fast after dispelling troops, preventing the stormtroopers from infiltrating the enemy tunnel systems, or at least in large enough numbers to make a difference.

The Hammerburst would burn through plasteel armor, but only after a number of bursts. A shot to the unprotected bodysuit, however, would instantly incinerate the material with plasma burns and cause greivous wounds. Against an unarmored foe, such as an officer or guard, one shot could be enough.

The grenades would likely be trouble for Imperial Army troopers, who have only upper-body plasteel armor and no face protection. Fragments and flames, if they do not kill, could still blind them. Stormtroopers could likely take a close-by grenade blast, if not stand on one, but if it is wrapped around their arm or neck like a bola, it could blow up limbs or heads.

The shotgun could possibly breech the plasteel armor, or at the very least knock the wind out of a fully-armored trooper. A head blast to stormtrooper armor would easily destroy the thinner material and leave little of the head. In the case of troopers, they would have nothing left.

The Boltok, as mentioned, could at least knock down a trooper, at most go through. The pistol has enough power to dismember and bisect unarmored soldiers, so officers would only hope to be quicker to shoot in that case.

A direct hit from the Boomer would definately kill a stormtrooper, let alone a ground trooper. Like the grenade, against troopers it could at least blind and scar from a nearby hit, while stormtroopers could ignore it.

The Troika could kill most soldiers in the Imperial ground forces. It is actually fairly accurate at long range, providing long range support which the Locust lack. If captured, however, the game could become reality, and there would be little the Locust could do except stay behind something solid and blindly hurl grenades.

The Torque Bow, on the other hand, would require an extremely accurate shooter. Because the ground troopers wear the same upper armor as stormtroopers, both could suffer an almost direct hit from an arrow and have it glance off. A direct hit, however, with almost zero degrees angle, could possibly penetrate. If the grenade explodes after penetrating the flesh or even getting stuck in the armor, the person would have no chance.

Wretches would be trouble only against unarmored officers away from any support. Their weak armor and flesh allows for a single-shot kill from a medium blaster pistol, like a DH-17. They could only be effective if released in inordinately large swarms.

Berserkers would be the scourge of the soldiers. They could smash through squads, shrugging off blaster bolts. If they run into an E-Web, there is a possibility that they could be killed. Anything larger than an E-Web is an almost definate kill.

Corpsers would be quite a match. Rocket launchers would probably be ineffective. It could take an AT-AT to kill a Corpser, and even then it would have no way of dodging the creature's claws. The lumbering machines could only shoot from the front and almost to the sides, so any Corpsers that come from the rear or direct side could topple it.

Seeders would have little use on the battlefield, though they are so rare that they would probably not be a defining factor. The Nemecyst explode with less force than a Boomshot grenade, so stormtroopers could wade through them. While powerful enough to ignore blaster rifles or E-Webs, a vehicle-class blaster cannon could probably seriously wound or kill it.

Blaster rifles could kill anything up to a Berserker easily. A grenade would be enough to kill a Theron Guard as well. A grub could take one, maybe two bolts before dropping. A Boomer would take much longer, though an E-Web at maximum power could drop it. An AT-ST could kill a Berserker if given a good shot, but considering all the noise that it makes, the Berserker would easily charge at the walker and ram it to the ground. Repulsor craft, such as tanks, would be trouble for the Locust, but a single Corpser or a really pissed Berserker could destroy them.

Honestly, I can find no clear winner. Both sides are powerful. One has strong weapons, heavy armor, and difficult to destroy vehicles. The other has tough ground troops, the ability to pop up anywhere on the battlefield, and a creature that can decimate the heaviest ground vehicle of the Empire.

[Stark]

Given not only the weapon disparity but the electronic warfare dominance, I'm not sure the Locust have even a tiny chance. They're not going to be able to have a massive underground network without it being detected and flooded with armed remotes, gas, etc.

Saying a corpser requires an AT-AT is fucking ABSURD. It's a fucking animal that can be injured by regular ARs, shotguns loaded with shot, etc. Guns that blast through meter-thick metal beams (like, I don't know, standard blaster rifles on high) would probably be enough, don't you think?

An explosive arrow can instagib a Boomer. Saying it would take an E-web - a fucking HEAVY MACHINEGUN from SW/40k level firepower - is utterly laughable.

My assessment of Locust would go as follows -

Regular Dudes - armed with projectile weapons and fuck all armour, utterly useless. Probably deadly in close range, though. I mean, shotguns? Please.

Therons - more armoured, lamer weapons. Assuming the armour does jack shit the bow has such a poor rate of fire these guys would be almost irrelevant anyway. Overkill for stormies, worthless against anything else.

Boomers - utterly useless. Awful rate of fire, they say 'boom' every tme they shoot, and don't notice their ammo running out. Slow, huge.

Berserkers - 'immune' to regular weapons (ARs, shotguns, basically just like stormie armour), but unarmed. Can't really see what they'd contribute.

Gretches - huge numbers, half-decent close range, YELL AT THE TOP OF THEIR VOICES ALL THE TIME. The splodey ones might be all right in built up areas, but if you need to die to kill someone you're useless.

Corpsers - vehicle-size threat with no guns and poor armour? Pity the corpser. It might kill an unsupported, surprised group of infantry without support (and they seem to know this, as they stay away from the surface).

The tech disparity is too high. The fact you're even using game mechanics like 'survive HMG to the face lol' shows how silly this is. I hear the first 5 HMG shells bounce off your face, and then the sixth one instagibs you? Just like in real life lol. These are guys armed with projectile weapons against Star Wars. Due to size the Locust might require higher blaster settings than usual, but that isn't going to take long to work out.

[Noble Ire]

The real killer for the the Locust is their almost complete lack of armor support. They have Corpsers, which, as Stark points out, would be largely useless against anything outside a few squads of unsupported infantry, and Brumaks, forty-foot ape-like creatures with huge energy beams strapped to their backs. These would pose a more significant threat to an Imperial task force, but they are still extremely slow, and would likely be fodder for light, fast speeder bikes, hover tanks, and even smaller walkers like AT-PTs (I suspect that a few squads of Imperial soldiers armed with AT weaponry could also do the job, but I digress). The Locust have absolutely nothing that can touch AT-ATs, Juggernauts, and tank droids. Even if the swarm managed to perfect a method slowing walkers and wheeled vehicles with their tunneling abilities, the Empire still has a whole host of heavily armed repulsor-lift troop transports, speeders, and hover tanks at its disposal.

[Stark]

Wow, I thought Brumaks were *dinosaurs* with *missles* on their backs. They're really APES?

It's worth pointing out that their tunnels are apparently corpser-dug, so a quick 'kill corpsers' raid would cripple their underground mobility, and gas/drones/commandoes down the tunnels would fuck the rest of them up.

[Noble Ire]

Wow, I thought Brumaks were *dinosaurs* with *missles* on their backs. They're really APES?

Brumaks are armed with missiles as well, but IIRC, they have a huge cannon on their backs as well, even if it is never seen fired in the game. I got the ape thing from this Gamespy article; personally, I think they look more like reptiles of some sort too; maybe they were just making up stuff for the piece as they went along.

[chitoryu12]

Given not only the weapon disparity but the electronic warfare dominance, I'm not sure the Locust have even a tiny chance. They're not going to be able to have a massive underground network without it being detected and flooded with armed remotes, gas, etc.

Saying a corpser requires an AT-AT is fucking ABSURD. It's a fucking animal that can be injured by regular ARs, shotguns loaded with shot, etc. Guns that blast through meter-thick metal beams (like, I don't know, standard blaster rifles on high) would probably be enough, don't you think?

An explosive arrow can instagib a Boomer. Saying it would take an E-web - a fucking HEAVY MACHINEGUN from SW/40k level firepower - is utterly laughable.

My assessment of Locust would go as follows -

Regular Dudes - armed with projectile weapons and fuck all armour, utterly useless. Probably deadly in close range, though. I mean, shotguns? Please.

Therons - more armoured, lamer weapons. Assuming the armour does jack shit the bow has such a poor rate of fire these guys would be almost irrelevant anyway. Overkill for stormies, worthless against anything else.

Boomers - utterly useless. Awful rate of fire, they say 'boom' every tme they shoot, and don't notice their ammo running out. Slow, huge.

Berserkers - 'immune' to regular weapons (ARs, shotguns, basically just like stormie armour), but unarmed. Can't really see what they'd contribute.

Gretches - huge numbers, half-decent close range, YELL AT THE TOP OF THEIR VOICES ALL THE TIME. The splodey ones might be all right in built up areas, but if you need to die to kill someone you're useless.

Corpsers - vehicle-size threat with no guns and poor armour? Pity the corpser. It might kill an unsupported, surprised group of infantry without support (and they seem to know this, as they stay away from the surface).

The tech disparity is too high. The fact you're even using game mechanics like 'survive HMG to the face lol' shows how silly this is. I hear the first 5 HMG shells bounce off your face, and then the sixth one instagibs you? Just like in real life lol. These are guys armed with projectile weapons against Star Wars. Due to size the Locust might require higher blaster settings than usual, but that isn't going to take long to work out.

While I concede most points, the game mechanics are, as far as I know, the only source. Unless novels have been released that I don't know about, then there is nothing to disprove canon. Also, I never said anything about bullets bouncing off. You clearly see blood fly, indicating that they do cause wounds, possibly from fragmentation. Also, the gibbing is caused by shooting after the soldier is dead. We never saw anything to contradict the fact that their grubs can take multiple shots to the face before death. It happened, we saw it, case closed.

And Corpsers could only be injured by shooting directly into their mouths. In fact, that didn't even kill it. It was killed in the game when it was wounded and fell into a pool of Imulsion that disintegrated it. Because rocket launchers and grenades were ineffective in-game, we would have to assume that Imperial rocket launchers and grenades would be little better.

However, after some thinking, I believe that it may be possible that Dark Wretches (the luminous ones) are formed because of underground pools of Imulsion like the ones seen in-game, so yes, they are a possibility.

As one more piece, the Berserkers are indeed tougher than stormtroopers. Not only are rocket launchers and grenades ineffective at anything except drawing it's attention, but the Hammer of Dawn, a satellite laser than leaves nothing left of whatever soldiers it hits, only heats up whatever armor it has under it's skin, and still doesn't kill it. It is possible that the energy in a blaster bolt would heat up the armor, but a rifle is hardly comparable to a satellite laser.

[Darth Ruinus]

How are the Locust an alien species if they come from the same planet the Humans are on?

Or did Humans arrive there or somethin?

[Stark]

You're seriously saying the inhabitants of Sera can withstand 20 rounds to the face, because of game mechanics? Oh, dear. I guess they can lie bleeding to death for ages, and be fine when tagged by their teammates, right?

Dude, you shoot the corpser in the ass to get to it rear up, and then shoot it in the face. It doesn't matter that it doesn't kill it: if it was heavily armoured it wouldn't even have noticed.

Holy shit, you think the splodey gretch are imulsion-related? It's not like they didn't say that in the game or anything lol!

If you think the Hammer is being fired at a high level when you target for it, you're an idiot. These are weapons of mass destruction: the 'column of fire' isn't necessarily that awesome (particularly as it doesn't seem to penetrate anything, not even nemacyst goop). The berserker being 'immune' to smallarms is not ONLY game mechanics (lol bossfight lol) but being immune to rifles and nades is NOT being immune to guns that can punch through meter-thick structural supports. I say again: the berserkers have no weapons and aren't going to achieve much, even if you DO have to bring up a missile to take them out. If they take down stormies, their mates will just tag them back up before she can finish them off anyway. LOL GM.

[Stark]

How are the Locust an alien species if they come from the same planet the Humans are on?

Or did Humans arrive there or somethin?

Alien like 'illegal alien'. They're unknown to the Sera humans until they attack.

[Darth Ruinus]

How are the Locust an alien species if they come from the same planet the Humans are on?

Or did Humans arrive there or somethin?

Alien like 'illegal alien'. They're unknown to the Sera humans until they attack.

?

WTF? How does a society hide underneath another one for so long then?
Did the Locust hibernate for a long time, or are they REALLY deep down in the planet?

[Stark]

They Sera humans don't know where they come from, or how far their tunnels go: when they found out that the tunnels went for kilometers in all directions - including down - they seemed flabbergasted. They're certainly not a single race, so who knows what they're on about.

[chitoryu12]

Once again, the fact that the game mechanics seem silly doesn't mean that we have to invent new capabilities to make it more realistic. There is nothing that says that they cannot do that. The game mechanics said so. The game mechanics are, until a novel come out, the highest canon in the series. Thus, we trust in the programmers.

And I always knew the Dark Wretches were created by Imulsion. I just didn't know if the humans on Sera had allowed it to come up closer to the surface or if they had always had pools of the stuff laying around in the Locust tunnels.

We can assume that the face and ass of the Corpser, also, are the only unarmored parts. Thus, those would be the parts it would notice it was being shot at. Also, have you forgotten that Emergence Holes can pop up anywhere, including behind Imperial lines? Corpsers have multiple legs that can easily protect it's unarmored areas.

And is it possible that the Hammer of Dawn has multiple settings? If it did, then why would it have been used as it was against the targets? It took four long bursts to kill a Seeder, so if there were multiple settings, then why wouldn't they set it to higher and just vaporize it?

[Stark]

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE. Of COURSE the Hammer has multiple fucking settings, that's WHAT I JUST SAID. It's called 'collateral damage' - what good is 'lolz vapor teh mantle' when your guys are five meters from the target point? Are you *really* this stupid?

Your no-numbers is just pissing me off. Get this: all the GoW weapons suck balls compared to SW weapons. Their most powerful weapons, like the boomshot, are not as good as standard blaster rifles. The Locust have nothing - NOTHING - that has the equivalent of heavy armour or shielding, and they're fighting guys who can kill sandcrawlers with smallarms.

Things like the Corpser and the Berserker are NOT serious threats. Your retarded 'oh rifle rounds bounce off the legs so clearly blaster fire will too based on nothing' attitude aside, the Corpser is vulnerable to standard small arms, far less powerful than a blaster. The Berserker is resistant to the light weapons found in GoW, but this does NOT mean they're resistant to blasters. They're also unarmed and incredibly stupid, so who even CARES?

You need to separate the setting from the game. Sera humans cannot be rezzed. They don't heal their bodies in seconds. They can't take sniper rounds to the head. The setting is the people, the weapons, the history, not laughable crap like being immune to everything. The game is just a game. Next you'll say Sera humans are immune to damage when they're playing a chainsaw attack animation!

[chitoryu12]

Before I start, I will say that I concede your point on the Hammer of Dawn.

We are not talking about the humans of Sera. This is the Locust. This is the setting. They have capabilities that are easily visible. We don't know how they do it. We don't know if the creators thought such game mechanics were terribly unrealistic. What we DO know is that they can do it, damn the realism to hell. This is a forum where people talk about faster-than-light travel and concepts man has only dreamed about. Also, we are talking about aliens. We have no way to tell if the real Locust, if they exist in the first place, could, in fact, take such damage. All we have is what we have seen with our own two damn eyes.

You cannot simply decide that something seen in game is so utterly unbelievable that it cannot happen. Yes, a blaster bolt to the head will kill a Locust. I never said it couldn't. However, their armor is extraordinarily powerful and could indeed block at least ONE blaster bolt. You act like I make the Locust out to be invincible. I said it was tough to call.

I also doubt that you truely even KNOW the capabilities of the GoW weapons. You said that the Boomshot is less powerful than a blaster rifle. IT BLOWS PEOPLE INTO LITTLE CHUNKS OF MEAT! Have we ever seen a blaster rifle completely annhialate a human like that? NO!

And please never mention the humans again. This is not GoW. The humans of Sera never existed as far as we know. We are pretending that the Empire came some time before humans and invaded. There is no human tech. I repeatedly said that they were not there. I almost removed Dark Wretches from the equation because of it. I removed the Lancer, sniper rifle, and human pistol from it. The battles take place in big fields or canyons or other natural features because the humans never arrived!

I even made concessions on realism. I based it off the lowest difficulty setting. I could have made it where one punch from a grub could send a stormtrooper flying. I could have made it where a point-blank shotgun blast to the head would barely make them flinch. Instead, all in the name of realism, I made it where hand-to-hand combat against a stormtrooper would be a mistake, and where one blaster bolt to unprotected flesh was a death sentence. I removed the Locust's stupidity and gave them the option of tactical placement of Emergence Holes to attack from unprotected directions.

You accuse me of being unable to seperate the setting from the game. Well, guess what? THERE STILL ISN'T CONFLICTING INFORMATION! This isn't Halo. We don't have a book that changed the power of weapons and intelligence of aliens. We do not have a novel that says that one bullet through the head would drop a Boomer. We only have what we see. Just because it doesn't fit in with your idea of realistic battle. We have what we have and use it. I only remove from the game what wouldn't make sense, like the invincible chainsaw animation. I never said a damn word even related to that.

The statement that I said the Berserkers and Corpsers are immune to everything is a strawman arguement. I said that an AT-AT would be effective against a Corpser's armor. Yes, a blaster rifle in the mouth would hurt it, but that doesn't mean that they would find the most economical solution in having stormtroopers poke around the defenses, waiting for a spot to shoot at, which, as far as we know, would not kill it anyway! Berserkers are immune to anything up to an E-Web because they can take explosives and not wince in pain, yet require a large satellite-based weapon just to weaken. An RPG is not a light weapon! A blaster rifle could have the same effect as the Hammer of Dawn, just on a much smaller scale, versus the entire body. I doubt a stormtrooper with a blaster rifle can easily kill a creature that requires satellite lasers, exploding fuel tanks, and a fall from a train moving at over 100 MPH to kill.

[Darth Ruinus]

Well to be fair, you said that the Boomshot could reduce a person to flying gibs? Well, I must point out that is against Locust or Humans in that game, of which neither has Stormtrooper armor (made out of plasteel or durasteel I think?)

Ok, lets say that the game setting rules stay in place. And a point blast shot to the head of these Locusts would not kill them. Now, you firstly assume that a blaster bolt (which a shot from Han Solo's pistol tears chunks out of that wall in that spaceport) is the same, or if not weaker to a shotgun blast. Secondly, what type of weapons do these Locusts use? Projectiles like bullets? Energy weapons? If they use normal bullets, doubtfull they will get past Stormtrooper armor, and if they use energy weapons, incredibly doubtful they are as strong as blasters. If we use game mechanics, then the Stormies are walking around as BOSSES. 'Cept there are squads of them.

Of course, using game mechanics is a horrible way of debating realism and who would win.

[chitoryu12]

Yeah, well it's still all we have. If they made a novel like they did with Halo we would have no trouble with realism. I'm just working with what I've got.

[PeZook]

Jesus, that was a retarded analysis.

The Locust's biggest advantage is that with their series of tunnels, they can form Emergence Holes and pop up almost anywhere, dispelling almost a dozen soldiers each from a smaller one, and an entire Corpser from a large one. They could easily appear behind enemy lines, forcing the Empire to form bases with thick metal floors and cover all areas equally, causing a thin covering of the planet. Due to a lack of air support, the option of simply dropping turbolaser blast after turbolaser blast and burying the aliens would not be an option. Emergence holes also close up very fast after dispelling troops, preventing the stormtroopers from infiltrating the enemy tunnel systems, or at least in large enough numbers to make a difference.

It's not an advantage if your enemy has portable high-fidelity battlefield sensors and nerve gas. Of course, the Locust may not have the same kind of neural control scheme as humans, but the Empire has a wide variety of nerve gasses and biological agents at it's disposal. Also, battledroids - immune to SW level small arms, armed with heavy weapons, mass-produceable.

If the enemy can detect you burrowing and collapse your tunnel or pump it full of nerve gas with hand grenades, your tunnels become a liability, not an advantage. Furthermore - how are they going to do recon? It's not like the Locust can just magically divine the location of an Imperial command center.

The Hammerburst would burn through plasteel armor, but only after a number of bursts. A shot to the unprotected bodysuit, however, would instantly incinerate the material with plasma burns and cause greivous wounds. Against an unarmored foe, such as an officer or guard, one shot could be enough.

Quantification? A comparison with E-11 rifles, at least, would be nice.

The grenades would likely be trouble for Imperial Army troopers, who have only upper-body plasteel armor and no face protection. Fragments and flames, if they do not kill, could still blind them. Stormtroopers could likely take a close-by grenade blast, if not stand on one, but if it is wrapped around their arm or neck like a bola, it could blow up limbs or heads.

Grenades are always trouble for anyone, they're not a significant advantage. The Imperials have grenades, too, and some of them have nuke-level yield (like demolitions thermal detonators)

Wrapped around their heads like a bola? Please, that's a retarded weapon. What, the Imperials are just gonna stand around and let the enemy throw these at them? Do you even have any idea how a firefight looks like? There's a reason tribal warriors in africa use AKs instead of thrown spears and bolas.

The shotgun could possibly breech the plasteel armor, or at the very least knock the wind out of a fully-armored trooper. A head blast to stormtrooper armor would easily destroy the thinner material and leave little of the head. In the case of troopers, they would have nothing left.

Yeah, shotguns. A deadly weapon on the modern battlefield...not. Besides, I'd like some quantification for the retarded claim that buckshot could pierce fucking stormtrooper armor, when high-powered rifles can't unless they hit the visor.

I notice that you concentrate on individual weapons and if they could/could not kill stormtroopers, which is really unimportant. What's important is that every single stromtrooper is armed with weapons with firepower of grenade launchers, that stormtrooper squads always have additional weapons like LMGs, SW-level grenade launchers, nerve gas, etc. which would definitely be able to kill locusts who are vulnerable to modern-style assault rifles (mostly, excepting some greater beasts who would simply be blown to bits with anti-tank missiles). And that the SW army is an actual organized force, unlike the retarded Locust horde running around in swarms - that means they work in squads, they use combined arms, they have real armored vehicles (rather than animals working in their stead), and every soldier is equipped with advanced sensors and battlespace management equipment.

Between armies of equal strenght (I assume by "strenght" you mean "numbers") the one with better intel and C&C typically wins. At worst, the Empire could simply throw shielded droids at the enemy. What's to stop them from digging into the locust tunnel netowrk, pumping it full of nerve gas and then sending in heavily armored, shielded and armed droids?

[Stark]

Before I start, I will say that I concede your point on the Hammer of Dawn.

No shit, idiot.

We are not talking about the humans of Sera. This is the Locust. This is the setting. They have capabilities that are easily visible. We don't know how they do it. We don't know if the creators thought such game mechanics were terribly unrealistic. What we DO know is that they can do it, damn the realism to hell. This is a forum where people talk about faster-than-light travel and concepts man has only dreamed about. Also, we are talking about aliens. We have no way to tell if the real Locust, if they exist in the first place, could, in fact, take such damage. All we have is what we have seen with our own two damn eyes.

You fucking disgust me. No analysis, no attempt to rationalise the OBVIOUS game mechanics (holy shit, difficulty levels!), just 'hahahaha this guy laughed at a whole mag he is immune to blasters'. Ingame shit is the worst kind of evidence ever, and by relying on it you just look like an idiot. Even the cutscenes show far less durability from both sides - but NOOOO you're too busy wanking to hitpoints and regen.

You cannot simply decide that something seen in game is so utterly unbelievable that it cannot happen. Yes, a blaster bolt to the head will kill a Locust. I never said it couldn't. However, their armor is extraordinarily powerful and could indeed block at least ONE blaster bolt. You act like I make the Locust out to be invincible. I said it was tough to call.

No, I can decide that something is clearly a game mechanic. If you bothered to think - if you even have a brain - you'd realise that treating the game as evidence just raises problems you ignore. Turns out Locust can get shot in the head and piss out huge litres of blood... WITH NO HOLE IN THEIR SKIN. They become incredibly light on death! They don't respond to your gun sticking out of cover, and just shoot at the last place you looked out from! Undeniable ingame evidence, and obvious game mechanics. You can't have it both ways, idiot.

PS, their armour is utterly worthless. EVERY shot has gouts of blood, that aren't different from skin/armour hits. From ingame visuals the armour does NOTHING. You say it could block 'at least ONE blaster bolt'. PROVE IT OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I also doubt that you truely even KNOW the capabilities of the GoW weapons. You said that the Boomshot is less powerful than a blaster rifle. IT BLOWS PEOPLE INTO LITTLE CHUNKS OF MEAT! Have we ever seen a blaster rifle completely annhialate a human like that? NO!

Er, dude, you do know they use it to blow armoured doors down and used the larger rifles to cripple the sandcrawler, right? 1 meter thick metal beams > soldier, idiot. I'm not going to bother pointing out that you've ignored me saying this EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread, so you're dishonest too.

The boomshot is just a grenade launcher, and it's got a shockingly low rate of fire, awful range, and is carried only by the least survivable Locust. Yeah, way better than blaster rifles, you're right.

And please never mention the humans again. This is not GoW. The humans of Sera never existed as far as we know. We are pretending that the Empire came some time before humans and invaded. There is no human tech. I repeatedly said that they were not there. I almost removed Dark Wretches from the equation because of it. I removed the Lancer, sniper rifle, and human pistol from it. The battles take place in big fields or canyons or other natural features because the humans never arrived!

AHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA. This is awesome. The humans of Sera can heal but the Locust can't! This isn't a game mechanic AT ALL! You can't res Locust, cause they're not human! Man, you can't make this shit up...

Again, you're so stupid you rule yourself. All the weapons in GoW besides the alien rifle appear to be human, even the bow (at least based on glowy blue bits). At max, the Locust have their rifle, the bow and the boomshot, all other guns are human guns. Wow, you really helped them out there! Oh wait, you think the shotgun is a Locust weapon even though the manual shows it isn't! Class research there.

And... why remove splodey gretch? The Imulsion has been down there for ages, the humans didn't make it?

I even made concessions on realism. I based it off the lowest difficulty setting. I could have made it where one punch from a grub could send a stormtrooper flying. I could have made it where a point-blank shotgun blast to the head would barely make them flinch. Instead, all in the name of realism, I made it where hand-to-hand combat against a stormtrooper would be a mistake, and where one blaster bolt to unprotected flesh was a death sentence. I removed the Locust's stupidity and gave them the option of tactical placement of Emergence Holes to attack from unprotected directions.

Oh man, this is awesome. Has a game ever, ever said the lowest difficulty is the most realistic? In any case, Locust can't take SHIT ALL damage on casual. I played it for the first time a few days ago, and you can kill 3-odd Locust with a single mag from a rifle that can't penetrate an armchair. OOO, fucking scary shit there!

Don't embarrass yourself with your pathetic wanking. You've chosen a golden mean, oh great for you! Shotguns are going to be useless against stormies (hell, unless you can show great penetration, even the ARs will be useless - ps you can't). Even I mentioned that the Locust are incredibly strong at close range, and armour can't save you from that. You 'removed the Locust's stupidity', and you expect anyone to take your VS seriously? Pfffft.

By the way, the tunnels will be useless against the Imperials, since their sensor tech isn't GoW shit. Again, you've ignored this ALL DAY. Do keep up.

You accuse me of being unable to seperate the setting from the game. Well, guess what? THERE STILL ISN'T CONFLICTING INFORMATION! This isn't Halo. We don't have a book that changed the power of weapons and intelligence of aliens. We do not have a novel that says that one bullet through the head would drop a Boomer. We only have what we see. Just because it doesn't fit in with your idea of realistic battle. We have what we have and use it. I only remove from the game what wouldn't make sense, like the invincible chainsaw animation. I never said a damn word even related to that.

Rar rar rar rar rar rar. Sorry, the hilarious ingame shit of AR's that can't penetrate furniture and mass disappearing when people die shit all over you're pathetic 'zomg teh gamez is teh troof' crap.

You accuse me of cherry-picking? You're a fucking liar. I see a boomer killed in one hit from a GRENADE ARROW, and knowing about SW weapon yields I know that every stormtrooper can dish out that same damage with one shot. Holy shit, I'm totally ignoring the game by directly referring to it! It's -my- fault you just don't have a clue how useless the GoW weapons are compared to SW! Don't tell me - the arrows have power settings, and they're set to 'won't kill a man if it hits the wall next to his head' on purpose?

I throw out obvious game mechanics like hitpoints. Things like arrow + boomer = gibs is consistent across all difficulties and not disputed by cutscenes. Here's an exercise for you - a single nemacyst can fully penetrate a chopper armoured against small arms without exploding during cutscenes, but only kill a man on the highest difficulty with direct impact and explosion. Hmmm. Odd, that.

The statement that I said the Berserkers and Corpsers are immune to everything is a strawman arguement. I said that an AT-AT would be effective against a Corpser's armor. Yes, a blaster rifle in the mouth would hurt it, but that doesn't mean that they would find the most economical solution in having stormtroopers poke around the defenses, waiting for a spot to shoot at, which, as far as we know, would not kill it anyway! Berserkers are immune to anything up to an E-Web because they can take explosives and not wince in pain, yet require a large satellite-based weapon just to weaken. An RPG is not a light weapon! A blaster rifle could have the same effect as the Hammer of Dawn, just on a much smaller scale, versus the entire body. I doubt a stormtrooper with a blaster rifle can easily kill a creature that requires satellite lasers, exploding fuel tanks, and a fall from a train moving at over 100 MPH to kill.

So... I said you claimed blasters wouldn't work against the corpsers legs, so you say it'd work against it's head? And... the corpsers never show their heads, right, and don't have a whole 8-bit boss thing about their behaviour that'd make them easy meat to stormies, right? Pffft.

Your no numbers has now REALLY pissed me off. You say 'oh they resist grenades so you'd need an E-Web, apparently totally ignorant of just how powerful an E-Web is. Since you also don't understand that blasters are far more powerful than GoW grenades, this isn't surprising.

There are no RPGs in GoW, except perhaps the boomshot (which can't penetrate any nondestroyable cover at all - are the wrecked cars invincible to blasters too? ). You say 'lol the blaster might be the same as the hammer lol' without realising you have NO NUMBERS and the hammer doesn't even BURN PLANTS. Oh wait, you ignore ingame evidence you don't like, right? It's only bad men like me that try to rationalise the game as a GAME that REPRESENTS a fictional world! DAMN US!

You 'doubt' a stormtrooper can kill a berserker... because a) a weak orbital laser takes 3+ sustained hits to kill it, b) dropping it off a train appeared to kill it (frankly I doubt it, it makes ZERO SENSE with the berserkers depicted strength, but dropping it off means it's not a threat... oh sorry I'm actually thinking again aren't I? Sorry) or c) an explosion so weak it doesn't kill men not 5m away. They can only blast support beams and blow huge holes in concrete! Are there any GoW weapons that do that in the game?

NO THERE FUCKING ISN'T. You lose, idiot, hoist by your own stupid 'everything in the game on easy is the truth of god' petard.

Your reply to Ruinus is disgraceful. Working within YOUR FRAMEWORK, he demonstrates why your logic is complete bullshit and you're just pulling comparisons out of your ass. Your response? USE MY FRAMEWORK! His post deserved an ACTUAL RESPONSE.

Ruinus, all the GoW weapons are bullets. The ARs have huge magazines - 60 rounds for the human one - thus small projectiles. They don't even penetrate furniture (like many games, the furniture takes 'damage' and then magically disappears). Their nades have a damage range of about 2-3m. The bow is basically a grenade arrow, and will kill if it HITS, but near misses are almost totally useless. The shotgun ain't doing jack against stormy armour, and the sniper has a fixed, low-mag scope and is a heavy bolt action, so very low ROF. The Hammer needs a satellite and open sky, so it's either counted out by the OP (no air support, remember) or the Imps can use battlefield gas to prevent the weapon from working. The GLASS ROOF of a GREENHOUSE stopped the beam working until the roof supports were knocked down. I'm not making this up.

[Stark]

Actually, that reminds me. In GoW the ~1m thick pillars holding up the glass roof are totally unbreakable, resistant to all your weapons. Going by Chitoru's stupid framework, it is thus HELL TOUGH and probably needs an E-Web to break it. You need to trick the STUPID-ASS berserker into crashing through it, breaking the glass so you can use the orbital laser. Did I mention berserkers were blind? Well, they are.

Every SW gun could do the same thing with one shot. Even most pistols.

[Stark]

Quantification? A comparison with E-11 rifles, at least, would be nice.

I have *no* idea what he's talking about. The alien rifle fires bullets from magazines, just like the human one, and nobody in the game - even the unarmoured guys the size of human children - is ever immolated or burned to death or whatever. They just run out of hitpoints and become a super-light corpse like with every other gun.

[PeZook]

Quantification? A comparison with E-11 rifles, at least, would be nice.

I have *no* idea what he's talking about. The alien rifle fires bullets from magazines, just like the human one, and nobody in the game - even the unarmoured guys the size of human children - is ever immolated or burned to death or whatever. They just run out of hitpoints and become a super-light corpse like with every other gun.

Which is why I pointed out that he simply assumed alien rifles would be able to penetrate stormie armor without even an attempt at quantification. You were doing a great jobs of arguing with him, I just pointed out these two things - lack of numbers (or even a real comparison of capabilities) and glossing over army structure, tactics and support equipment in favor of simplistic gun-to-gun comparison that is the staple of retarded King Tiger fanboys in WWII discussions.

[Stark]

When he says things like 'one bullet from the alien rifle will somehow burn to death Imperials' and then says 'it will take an E-Web to kill this guy that is hurt by shotguns', it really makes me cry. No-numbers always makes me angry, particularly when he says retarded shit like '100% of everything in the game is true' and then forgets that none of the weapons deform the terrain, that dead guys have no holes in them, that walls lose bulletholes in a few seconds, and that armchairs provide cover.

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm just wondering what the hell is to stop the Imperial Navy from just BDZing the fuck out of the Locusts and calling it Miller Time?

[Stark]

OP says no air support, natch.

[Imperial Overlord]

I lost my remaining interest in Gears of War the moment I encountered the first berserker. It was clearly a critter I should have been able to kill just by pumping rounds into it, but thanks to the joy of game mechanics and the plot railroad I had to maneuver it outside in a small amount of time so I could use the Hammer of Dawn to kill it.

Stormies should be able to mow through the Locusts like there is no tomorrow.