Why Shep hates anime....

[VF5SS]

Is it not true that an M1A1's gas turbine can kick up around 1118-kW? I guess the VF-1's dual thermo-nuclear turbine engines rated at 650 MW each are nothing.

[SAMAS]

What, a total of 1300Kw is nothing? It's better than the tank, isn't it?

[phongn]

I would take an F/A-22 over the VF-1 any day of the week. The real-life fighter has more thrust, more stealth and better sensors than the Valkyrie, which may have the missile range advantange and appears to have greater endurance.

Where is your proof that the F-22 engines are more powerfull than a VF1's?

Macross Compendium: The VF-1's two FF-2001 engines are rated at 112kN thrust each.

Air Force Technology: The F/A-22's two F-119-100 engines are rated at 156kN thrust each.

also, where is your proof that it has more stealth? According to Macross Zero, F-14's were unable to detect the enemy VF that was picking them off on their radar even when it came in close to them.

I'm talking about the VF-1, not the SV-51. Furthermore, the shape of the Valkyrie is rather non-stealthy and I've seen no notes on if it had RAM painted on it.

I haven't seen Macross Zero, but I'd be interested in seeing which direction the F-14 is facing (or hell, which particular model it was) when was engaged.

[phongn]

Important question: Do you know from whence the term "Macross Missle Massacre" comes from?

Yes. The F/A-22 has it's own missiles too, you know.

[phongn]

Is it not true that an M1A1's gas turbine can kick up around 1118-kW? I guess the VF-1's dual thermo-nuclear turbine engines rated at 650 MW each are nothing.

I was referring to thrust, actually.

[SAMAS]

Important question: Do you know from whence the term "Macross Missle Massacre" comes from?

Yes. The F/A-22 has it's own missiles too, you know.

I think he's referring to the fact that a valk(especially one wit FAST packs or later models) has many more of them, which are more maneuverable, and it can still can dodge having one launched at it. And yes, this takes into account proximity warheads. In Macross Plus, the YF-21 dodges several high-maneuverability missiles, without even coming close to any of them long enough to set them off.

[Icehawk]

Macross Compendium: The VF-1's two FF-2001 engines are rated at 112kN thrust each.

Ahhh, the good o'l Macross Compendium. Forgot about that place. Oh well, according to it the VF1 Top speed is Mach 2.7 at 32,000 ft. And at 98,000+ ft its capable of Mach 3.87. Thats probably better than what the F-22 is capable of or at least equal to it.

BTW, how do you calculate kN from kg? Ive never used that unit before

I haven't seen Macross Zero, but I'd be interested in seeing which direction the F-14 is facing (or hell, which particular model it was) when was engaged.

The story takes place in 2008 which is around the time the F-14 is due to be fully replaced by the F-18 Super Hornet in our world. I assume they would be using the most upgraded version we currently have flying today.

[Sea Skimmer]

The story takes place in 2008 which is around the time the F-14 is due to be fully replaced by the F-18 Super Hornet in our world. I assume they would be using the most upgraded version we currently have flying today.

The F-14 is hauling around a late 60's AWG-9 radar on all models.The F-22 has somthing thats about two generations higher on the tech scale.

The ability to dodge several missiles is nice, however many planes can and have done that. The F-4 was never know for being nimble yet on the Golan front in 1973 one evaded eleven SA-6 and SA-3 missiles while being engaged by ZSU-23's. Others died from single two missile salvos.

[SAMAS]

Here's the stats given for the F-14s used in Macross ZERO:

Unit type: multi-role fighter
Manufacturer: Grumman Aerospace
Standard takeoff mass: 41,780 lb
Maximum takeoff mass: 74,348 lb
Powerplant type: General Electric F110-GE-400 afterburning turbofans x 2
Powerplant output: 27,000 lb each
Armament: 20mm M61A1 Vulcan six-barrel cannon with 675 rounds x 1, AIM-54C Phoenix AAMs x 4, AIM-7 Sparrow AAMs x 4, AIM-9 Sidewinder AAMs x 4, cluster bombs, drop tanks x 2
Wingspan (swept back 20 degrees): 19.56 meters
Wingspan (swept back 68 degrees): 11.63 meters
Overall length: 19.10 meters
Overall height: 4.88 meters
Maximum level flying speed: 2,500 km/h
Crew: 2 pilots
Pilot(s): Shin Kudo, Edgar LaSalle

And the MiG-29:

Unit type: multi-role fighter
Manufacturer: Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau
Standard takeoff mass: 33,600 lb
Maximum takeoff mass: 40,785 lb
Powerplant type: Sarkisov RD-33 afterburning turbofans x 2
Powerplant output: 18,300 lb each
Armament: GSh-30-1 30mm cannon with 150 rounds x 1, AAMs, ASMs, bombs, rockets, drop tanks and ECM pods attached to six external points
Wingspan (fully extended): 11.36 meters
Overall length: 17.32 meters
Overall height: 4.73 meters
Maximum level flying speed: 2,445 km/h
Crew: 1 pilot

For Comparison, here's the official(I think) stats for the VF-1A Valkryie, the standard one given to UN SPACY pilots:

Unit type: all-environment variable fighter and tactical combat battroid Manufacturer: Northrom
Empty mass: 13250 kg
Standard takeoff mass: 18500 kg
Maximum takeoff mass: 37000 kg
Powerplant type: Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engine x 2
Powerplant output: 11500 kg each (23000 kg each in overboost) thrust and 650 MW power
Vernier thruster types: Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NBS-1 x 4, P&W LHP04 x 18
Armament: Mauler ROV-20 anti-aircraft laser cannon x 1, Howard GU-11 55 mm 3-barrel Gatling gun pod x 1 (200 rounds ammunition), underwing hardpoint x 4
Optional underwing hardpoint armament (per hardpoint): AMM-1 hybrid guided multi-purpose missile x 3, Mk.82 LDGB conventional bomb x 3, RMS-1 large anti-ship reaction missile x 1 on inboard hardpoint or x 2 on outboard hardpoint, UUM-7 15-tube micro-missile pod x 1 (carrying Bifors HMM-01 micro-missiles)
Optional equipment: Shinnakasu Heavy Industry GBP-1S protector weapon system, atmospheric-escape booster system, Shinnakasu Heavy Industry FAST Pack system
Crew: 1 pilot
Pilot(s): Hikaru Ichijo, Hayao Kakizake, Maximilien Jenius

Fighter mode:
Wingspan (fully extended): 14.78 meters
Wingspan (swept back 42 degrees): 12.12 meters
Wingspan (swept back 72 degrees): 8.25 meters
Wingspan (stowed position): 4.70 meters
Overall length: 14.23 meters
Overall height: 3.84 meters
Maximum level atmospheric speed at 10000 meters: Mach 2.71
Maximum level atmospheric speed at 30000+ meters: Mach 3.87
Space G-limits: +7 G

GERWALK(Hybrid) mode:
Wingspan (fully extended): 14.78 meters
Wingspan (swept back 42 degrees): 12.12 meters
Wingspan (swept back 72 degrees): 8.25 meters
Wingspan (stowed position): 4.70 meters
Overall length: 11.3 meters
Overall height: 8.7 meters
Maximum walking speed: 100 km/h
Maximum level atmospheric flying speed: 500 km/h
Minimum level atmospheric flying speed: 0 km/h (VTOL capable) Maximum hovering time using 13000 kg x 2 thrust: 70 seconds
Maximum hovering time using 11500 kg x 2 thrust: 420 seconds

Battroid(Humanoid) mode:
Overall height: 12.68 meters
Overall width: 7.3 meters
Wingspan (fully extended): 14.78 meters
Overall length: 4.0 meters
Maximum walking speed: 160 km/h
Operational underwater depth: 100 meters

Transformation time:
Minimum time fighter-to-GERWALK automated: 1.5 seconds (approximate)
Minimum time GERWALK-to-battroid automated: under 2 seconds Standard time fighter-to-battroid automated: under 5 seconds
Minimum time fighter-to-battroid manual: 0.9 seconds

Battroid mode equipped with GBP-1S protector weapon system:
Unofficial codename: Armored Valkyrie
Overall height: 14.1 meters
Overall width: 9.8 meters
Overall length: 4.8 meters
Standard operational mass: 37100 kg
Additional armament: 28 cm Erlikon GH-32 Grenade Crusher micro-missile x 56 (in 11-tube shoulder launcher x 2, 5-tube chest launcher x 2, 4-tube side leg launcher x 4, 4-tube rear leg launcher x 2), Erlikon GA-100 Crusher high-speed armor-penetrating projectile x 6 (in 3-tube arm launcher x 2), Ramington H-22T large hand grenade x 6 (on 3-slot hip rack x 2)

Equipped with FAST Pack system:
Unofficial codenames (standard system): Super Valkyrie, Booby Duck, SSP-1, Super Ostrich
Unofficial codename (beam cannon-equipped system): Strike Valkyrie
Components: NP-BP-01 dorsal/backpack pod x 2, NP-FB-01 engine/leg pod x 2, NP-AR-01 arm pod x 2
Overall length: 14.0 meters
Overall height: 5.5 meters
Empty mass: 19200 kg
Standard takeoff mass: 45000 kg
Maximum takeoff mass: 72000 kg
Maximum propellant capacity: 11000 kg
Additional engines/thrusters/systems: 120000 kg class P&W EF-2001 booster thruster x 2, CTB-04 conformal propellant tank x 2, vernier thruster x many
Additional armament: arm unit-mounted 3-tube micro-missile launcher x 2, dorsal/backpack pod-mounted HMMP-02 micro-missile launcher pod x 2 Optional additional armament: Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod x 1 (replaces 1 x HMMP-02 micro-missile launcher pod)

Equipped with atmospheric-escape booster system:
Overall length: 18.9 meters
Standard liftoff mass: 120500 kg
Additional powerplant/thrusters: 22500 kg class conventional rocket engine x 4

[phongn]

Macross Compendium: The VF-1's two FF-2001 engines are rated at 112kN thrust each.

Ahhh, the good o'l Macross Compendium. Forgot about that place. Oh well, according to it the VF1 Top speed is Mach 2.7 at 32,000 ft. And at 98,000+ ft its capable of Mach 3.87. Thats probably better than what the F-22 is capable of or at least equal to it.

BTW, how do you calculate kN from kg? Ive never used that unit before

In brackets it says "*g", so you multiple the kg * g which gives you newtons. Divide by 1000 to get kN.

I haven't seen Macross Zero, but I'd be interested in seeing which direction the F-14 is facing (or hell, which particular model it was) when was engaged.

The story takes place in 2008 which is around the time the F-14 is due to be fully replaced by the F-18 Super Hornet in our world. I assume they would be using the most upgraded version we currently have flying today.

[/quote]

In the real-world very few of the F-14s have the newer avionics set, instead having the old AWG-9. I see no reason why this would change here, seeing as most of the money is going into VF development.

[phongn]

SAMAS: they're either flying the F-14A+/F-14B or the F-14D. I'm leaning towards the former as it was much more common.

[phongn]

The story takes place in 2008 which is around the time the F-14 is due to be fully replaced by the F-18 Super Hornet in our world. I assume they would be using the most upgraded version we currently have flying today.

The F-14 is hauling around a late 60's AWG-9 radar on all models.The F-22 has somthing thats about two generations higher on the tech scale.

You forgot about the APG-71 on the F-14D.

[Icehawk]

Hmmm 23000kg thrust in overboost. That works out to 50600lbs (225.6kN)thrust for each engine. No wonder its capable of Mach 3+ speeds. Thats also quite a bit more than the 35000lbs (155.6 kN) afterburning thrust the F-22 has.

Phong must have compared the non afterburning thrust of the VF1 to the afterburning thrust of the F-22.... sneaky sneaky

[phongn]

Hmmm 23000kg thrust in overboost. That works out to 50600lbs (225.6kN)thrust for each engine. No wonder its capable of Mach 3+ speeds. Thats also quite a bit more than the 35000lbs (155.6 kN) afterburning thrust the F-22 has.

Engines are rated in non-afterburning thrusts, Icehawk. The article I posted to only said that the engine had an afterburner, not that it's 155.6kN thrust was with the 'burner activated.

[Icehawk]

Engines are rated in non-afterburning thrusts, Icehawk. The article I posted to only said that the engine had an afterburner, not that it's 155.6kN thrust was with the 'burner activated.

All the sources I have seen constantly indicate its "Maximum" thrust is 35,000lbs per engine. Not a single source can be found indicating I higher thrust. (Well I have seen 39,000lbs on a few fan sites but those arent official)

Actually I just found a site here that states its "true" thrust remains classified but the maximum officially released thrust with afterburning is the 35,000lb figure. http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/f22/systems.htm