Dr. Who Ep. 2913: Last Of The Time Lords [Spoilers]

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-06-30 03:34pm

Oooh. I forgot.

Everybody Lives, Rose

Except the President of the US.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-06-30 03:47pm

That's frakkin' hilarious. Only person who really died (I'm counting Simm-Master as an unknown here, what with the whole Ming thing and him being ever the sneaky bastard) was the arrogant POTUS.

I'm hoping that next season they DON'T use the reset button and invasion of Earth shtick again. It's gotten done to death now, by the three main villains. Let's leave it at that, afterall, The Master did succeed and was doing fine for a whole two and a half years before Martha and The Doc hit the reset button. Easy come, easy go...

I'm now wondering who or what will be the main villain next time. Daleks and Cybers are all but extinct, The Master had a good go, so who can be next?

TEH CANDYMAN!!!1! Beware, children, as he DIPS PLANET EARTH IN CANDEH!!1

Err, maybe not.

Anyone else wish the rest of the crew of Torchwood Three were still in the Himalayas and eaten by a yeti?

PS.

The OST needs to come out now. Too much good music in the final three parter.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2007-06-30 04:39pm

That's frakkin' hilarious. Only person who really died (I'm counting Simm-Master as an unknown here, what with the whole Ming thing and him being ever the sneaky bastard) was the arrogant POTUS.

And the entire Uk Cabinet...

I still don't understand why the goons switch sides though...

. When they rewind back one year and one day Archangel is still fully up and running making everyone all nice and docile - and the Master was surrounded by what would clearly be his most faithful guards and they're all like "OK Jack we'll take orders from you and screw our master..." .

But I'm not going to bitch and whine too much - the episode had some cool elements and though not being up to the standards of some of the former episodes their standard is extremly high and it is still the best event on British Television.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-06-30 04:45pm

The Guid wrote:I still don't understand why the goons switch sides though... . When they rewind back one year and one day Archangel is still fully up and running making everyone all nice and docile - and the Master was surrounded by what would clearly be his most faithful guards and they're all like "OK Jack we'll take orders from you and screw our master..." .

I actually said 'Why does he even bother with humans' when I saw them. He's got six billion doom-balls.

But I'm not going to bitch and whine too much - the episode had some cool elements and though not being up to the standards of some of the former episodes their standard is extremly high and it is still the best event on British Television.

I agree. It could have been better; it might have been more interesting if the entire world remembered, instead of just the Jones family. That aspect of the reset annoys me...

frogcurry · Post by **frogcurry** » 2007-06-30 05:15pm

I give it "2". The only part I liked really was the Ming the Merciless rip-off return strategy for the Master, but even that is a bit spoilt by the fact that the masters totty is turned into nothing but a means for his reincarnation/ return rather than a character in her own right.

Big massive resets = poor plotting and an overreaching first part in the storyline...

Oh, and the face of boe reveal was kind of cool.

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2007-06-30 05:47pm

Well thats an interesting turn up for the books...Titanic. I wounder if they watched any Tom Baker? Because he clearly tells Borosa in 'The Invasion Of Time' that he had nothing to do with the ships sinking....six incarnations on and he is possibly the cause. I wounder why he activated the exterior microphone AND the deadlock seals while simply de-materializing?
POSSIBLE plot arch for the next series...did anyone else notice how the camera lingered on that white board behind Dr Milligan after he had walked out of frame? could anyone tell whats was written on it?

Siege · Post by **Siege** » 2007-06-30 05:50pm

I have to say I liked the way the doomballs were handled. When they first open the thing and it turns out they're the Utopia humans at first I felt for them, but then the damned thing turned around and went "because it's fun!", and that alone was enough for me to go from naught to 'holy shit purge the xenos!' mode in 0.5 seconds.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-06-30 06:15pm

NecronLord wrote:
The Guid wrote:I still don't understand why the goons switch sides though... . When they rewind back one year and one day Archangel is still fully up and running making everyone all nice and docile - and the Master was surrounded by what would clearly be his most faithful guards and they're all like "OK Jack we'll take orders from you and screw our master..." .
I actually said 'Why does he even bother with humans' when I saw them. He's got six billion doom-balls.

What did the Combine need with Overwatch transhumans, what did the Daleks need with Robomen or Pigslaves? The Toclafane could only fly about and splatter people, the Master still had many industries running on Earth and a gigantic slave population to police so that was what the human troopers were for - I also thought they defected too suddenly, but they were perhaps former UNIT soldiers stationed on the Valiant and not as loyal as the Master's other henchmen seen last episode (who were maybe among the crews onboard his fleet).

I also noticed that the Master had another emblem (it was seen on the janitor uniform worn by Martha's dad and additionally seen on the Valient's recently installed monitors). The Master is a perv as well - he desired that Lucy Saxon would have sex with a concubine

(the Master lording over his grisly court and tormenting his captives strongly reminded me of Jaffa's palace from Aladdin).

And the reset was expected if the entire planet was turned into a shipyard-cum-death camp for a whole year and the Master's grand plan of taking over the entire Universe from a backwater planet sounded barmy anyway.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-06-30 06:16pm

SiegeTank wrote:I have to say I liked the way the doomballs were handled. When they first open the thing and it turns out they're the Utopia humans at first I felt for them, but then the damned thing turned around and went "because it's fun!", and that alone was enough for me to go from naught to 'holy shit purge the xenos!' mode in 0.5 seconds.

They're kids. Kids are cruel. Especially in large groups. When I was in school, barely a day went by when I didn't attack someone, or be attacked by them. If I'd had rayguns, and a nice depersonalising machine-shell...

Besides, they're not 'xenos.'

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-06-30 06:24pm

Big Orange wrote:What did the Combine need with Overwatch transhumans,

Lost on me. Half-life?

what did the Daleks need with Robomen or Pigslaves?

Numbers, which, oh wait, the Toclafane had in great store.

The Toclafane could only fly about and splatter people,

Assuming they don't have manipulator arms, or can't get them...

the Master still had many industries running on Earth and a gigantic slave population to police so that was what the human troopers were for - I also thought they defected too suddenly, but they were perhaps former UNIT soldiers stationed on the Valiant and not as loyal as the Master's other henchmen seen last episode (who were maybe among the crews onboard his fleet).

The Master is a perv as well - he desired that Lucy Saxon would have sex with a concubine (the Master lording over his grisly court and tormenting his captives strongly reminded me of Jaffa's palace from Aladdin).

You think that's perverse? Hell, you think there's something wrong with that?

He burns Japan, and you're bothering to complain about his trying to persuade women to have threesomes with him? I hope that's a joke.

And the reset was expected if the entire planet was turned into a shipyard-cum-death camp for a whole year and the Master's grand plan of taking over the entire Universe from a backwater planet sounded barmy anyway.

Backwater? Are you kidding? It gets invaded annually. Primative, yes. Backwater, no.

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2007-06-30 06:27pm

Wait a second...How far back did the time reversal go? Wasn't it just after the President was killed. So surely the TARDIS is still set up for Paradox mode and about to go off....?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2007-06-30 06:28pm

Hitch Hiker wrote:Wait a second...How far back did the time reversal go? Wasn't it just after the President was killed. So surely the TARDIS is still set up for Paradox mode and about to go off....?

I assume it went back to 8:02, when the Paradox started. My video tape had ran out by that point, (grr) so I can't check.

Hitch Hiker · Post by **Hitch Hiker** » 2007-06-30 06:33pm

Even if thats the case, only the events of the year of Master in charge of all would have happened...but the TARDIS had been wired up for well, a year at best so surely it would have started all over again? Or is my grasp of paradox's not as good as i would like to hope?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2007-06-30 06:38pm

Hitch Hiker wrote:Even if thats the case, only the events of the year of Master in charge of all would have happened...but the TARDIS had been wired up for well, a year at best so surely it would have started all over again? Or is my grasp of paradox's not as good as i would like to hope?

Jack destroyed the paradox machine, which cause the revision. Presumbly though, as it was 'in the eye of the Storm' the paradox machine stayed wrecked. So it couldn't happen all over again.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-06-30 08:36pm

Naturally. If the Valiant was subject to the time-reversal, then no one would have known anything and the whole event would play out again like some sick Groundhog Day. For all intents and purposes, Valiant and everyone on-board was cut off from the time-line as the continuum repaired itself. So the anomalies are really that they have a new airship, the Jones and crew along with the Doc and Master all know of a year that didn't happen and an invasion that wasn't to be. Aside from that, everything else not directly linked to those critical events on-board was reverted.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2007-06-30 08:41pm

The existence of the Valiant isn't an anomaly; after all, it was built before the Master activated the Paradox machine.

Did anyone notice the bruises on Lucy Saxon's face (around her right eye); Anothe hint at the evil of the Master, and a reason for her to join in the psychic chant although that's almost certainly just the Master's contingency escape plan.

As for the episode not being epic enough, perhaps that was deliberate? the previous two finales featured the 'world-changing' events heavily; this one was more personal.

Flakin · Post by **Flakin** » 2007-06-30 09:04pm

How come the Paradox Machine couldn't be touched in the last episode in case it "blew up the sun", but somehow in this episode it was OK for Captain Scarlett to go running in and pepper it with bullets? I knew that there would be a reset button, too much had changed to let things stay the same, and the very presence of said "Paradox Machine" kinda pointed it out.

Really, this episode was a resounding meh for me. The Ming ending was really telegraphed too. The Master? Dead? When earlier on in the episode it was clearly stated that was the one single thing he'd never let happen?

3 out of 5. And it would of been a 2 apart from the Jack / Face of Boe connection.

Oh well, we'll see what happens at Christmas.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2007-06-30 10:17pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:I'm now wondering who or what will be the main villain next time. Daleks and Cybers are all but extinct, The Master had a good go, so who can be next?

TEH CANDYMAN!!!1! Beware, children, as he DIPS PLANET EARTH IN CANDEH!!1

Better hope UNIT's been stocking up on lemonade.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-07-01 01:51am

Vegi · Post by **Vegi** » 2007-07-01 02:49am

The Last of The Time Lords was the only episode this season I really didn't like. It had so many holes, it just didn't pan out like I hoped it would.

Come on! The Doctor burns The Master? And just leaves him!?! Did he forget that Time Lords can regenerate post-mortem? Did he forget that The Master has survived being nothing but ash before? (see 1996 movie). The Doctor himself said it, The Master doesn't kill himself. He had to have known that The Master would just wait until The Doctor left and then regenerate or steal a body.

Jack is The Face of Boe? Cool twist....except that's a pretty big retcon since it was already established in season 2 that Boe is a different species.

On the Titanic? This makes him cross his own past. Tom Baker, and Jon Pertwee have both mentioned being aboard the Titanic at some point.

I would have thought a great ending would be to toss The Master into the Time War along with the orbs...which would promptly be obliterated in the crossfire between the Daleks and Time Lords. That would be a good way to preserve The Doctors integrity of no-kill solution, and it would have not made him come off as an idiot who could obviously tell The Master had survived. They were obviously going for an 'epic' feel with this episode, but it just didn't work. I felt this would have been a good solution. Now I'm sure some would say 'oh god, not the daleks again!' but I would argue that it would only be a cameo appearance and wouldn't be something to complain about.

Ugh....this episode just frustrates me because it ends an otherwise great season on such a sour note.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-07-01 02:52am

Whoa whoa whoa, don't get me started. I don't want to talk about it. I think I'll rename this episode 'moral cowardice' or 'writers pulpit' or something.

I will say it had one high-point, though. They finally ejected the abortion of a companion, Martha Jones. What a worthless exercise that was.

Vegi · Post by **Vegi** » 2007-07-01 03:03am

That is true....however, that small high point is torn away by the fact that it's been confirmed the Martha character will be in a few episodes next year.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-07-01 03:27am

How come the Paradox Machine couldn't be touched in the last episode in case it "blew up the sun", but somehow in this episode it was OK for Captain Scarlett to go running in and pepper it with bullets?

Last week, the machine had been charging up for god-knows-how-long to make the paradox, but a year later is was just idling to keep the paradox running. I think.

Ugh.

Oh, you just hate everything. Martha a bad companion? "Ugh" as a comment? Got anything less substantial to say?

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-07-01 04:40am

I hope they don't regenerate the Master again. A new actor would suck. I'd prefer they keep the current dude.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2007-07-01 05:06am

I gave it a 3. Liked a lot of it, however the prayer thing is so fucking lame that on it alone it loses 2 points. As for the rest, fun reset fare...

Did anyone get the sense with the entire "picking up ring thing" combined with monkey comments that perhaps its all been a big misdirection - that Lucy is actually the Master and what we thought of as the Master being some sort of clone puppet - especially dying from a single bullet like that - is regeneration even a voluntary ability? Whenever we see the Master really acting out Lucy has a vacant look, especially in this "1 year later" phase. I know this is a bit of a stretch, but the little clues are pulling me into that direction of thinking...

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Dr. Who Ep. 2913: Last Of The Time Lords [Spoilers]

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