Your baby/child and toys for the opposite gender

[Haruko]

Especially for you parents out there, I'm wondering if you found anything wrong with your baby/child playing with or at least taking interest in a toy that would be thought more appropriate for the gender opposite of his own, e.g. if your baby/child is male and plays with a Barbie or your baby/child is female and she plays with a G.I. Joe action figure. I thought of this topic at work during break when a friend of the manager was there with his baby boy. On the table they were next to there was a pink teddy bear that, when squeezed, would giggle and then say "That tickles!", among other things. The baby boy took interest (as expressed by him motioning with his hands to try to attain it and giggling when he heard the vocals from the teddy bear. The father would discourage him and say that toy is for girls, even using the word "shit" several times as he was doing it, i.e.--"shit toy, bad" (that's not a direct quote, and likely very inaccurate, but you get the point).

Another question for this thread: is there even anything objectively wrong with it? At the time of the story I mentioned above, crossing my mind was the thought along the lines of, "Well, I don't see what's wrong with it since he's just a baby and thinks it's enjoyable."

[chitoryu12]

Well, when I was about four I wanted a Barbie set, but only because I was really into toy cars at that age and the set had one. So yeah, the car had power.

[Darth Wong]

Do you mean "wrong" as in "unethical", or "wrong" as in "I'd really rather see my kid act like a stereotypical boy"?

I support gay rights, but I'd be much happier if my sons were heterosexual. Their lives will be easier, and I will have genetic grandchildren. Similarly, I don't believe that a boy is doing anything wrong if he plays with Barbie dolls, but it's no accident that I raised my own boys in a Barbie-free environment. Their lives will be a lot easier if they fit in.

Having said that, I would not get angry at my boys for playing with gender-inappropriate toys. They get more than enough peer pressure at school to know what kind of toys they're expected to play with; if they choose to play with gender-inappropriate toys, I can guarantee you that they would already know that without me telling them. They would undoubtedly be suffering a serious crisis of identity if that were the case, and it would be my job as a father to help them keep their ship from capsizing in this storm. Not to make the storm worse in some idiotic and futile attempt to change what cannot be changed.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Such play can be a sign of a gender identity disorder which has biological origins; to try and "cure" it through forcing them to engage in masculine behaviour is ludicrous and possibly extremely harmful. A certain degree of interest in stereotypically feminine things is fine, the same with girls and stereotypically masculine things--moreso in that case, actually, because women have traditionally suffered under far more unfair restrictions than men. My sister wanted to be a truck-driver in kindergarten and nonetheless grew up to be perfectly normal and heterosexual without any problems at all, for instance.

Conversely, if it's very extensive and comments such as the child insisting they're a member of the other sex or trying to dress in the clothes of the opposite sex, they may have a biological condition of the brain which causes transexualism and is the result of the BSTc region being the same size as in a genetic female, rather than the size it is in males and homosexuals, both of whom possess a BSTc region about twice the size of that in genetic females and transexual woman. The earlier such a diagnosis is made the better, as if the child can be started on hormones around the beginning of puberty the physical outcome is very good and they can live quite normal and happy lives, unlike the typical extreme horrors that transexual women face.

[Broomstick]

When I was young I was very much interested in toys for boys. My parents didn't encourage it, but they didn't discourage it, either. I had cap guns, cowboy stuff, toy guns, bows and arrows (mom was probably a little unnerved when I started to make them, though), wore boy's jeans, and was extremely interested in dad's tools. And, oh yes, model airplanes. Started building those at age 8.

(...never did get that shiny yellow Tonka dump truck, though! ~pout~ Or the erector set... >sigh<)

On the other hand, I also did some very girly things, like cooking and knitting and embroidery.

Grew up to be quite heterosexual. Also, because my interests overlap those of men I also never had problems meeting men. So in some ways it was an advantage.

Never expressed a wish to be a boy -- just a wish to do what boys were allowed to do without question. That's really the big difference. There's play acting and non-traditional interests versus a mismatch between body and mind

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Anecdote: My mother was raising me and my brother when the idea of mixing the gender toys was popular (before the obvious genetic differences in the brain between men and women became widely publicized) so we got barbies. Mostly, the barbies kick-boxed and had their limbs ripped off when the Batmobile ran over them.

God, I wish we hadn't given away our action figures sometimes. I had a kicking rad Star Wars collection.

[ArmorPierce]

I remember I was interested in playing with my next door neighbor's barbie's dream house. I would have filled the house with my GI Joes had I had a chance though.

[K. A. Pital]

Me and my sister were playing with Transformers, as our favourite toys. My sister grew up totally normal and feminine.

I don't think there's anything wrong there. Some kids just might find "gender" toys boring, like dolls or teddy bears, and go for something new instead.

[Adrian Laguna]

Very often the toy itself doesn't tell you much about the person so much as how the toy is used. I often played with my sister's Barbie car. Yes it was pink with glitter, but I loved the thing. I would put my teddy bear, Tito (who also kind of doubled as an imaginary friend), on the driver's seat and drive the car around the house. As a result of this, the car lost both front lights, had a cracked windshield, and a crushed bumper.

A pink glitery Barbie car might be girly, but driving it around the house as fast as possible and deliberately crashing it into objects is not.

[Stark]

I'm not sure how an infant wanting to play with a colourful, noisy toy is in some way a sign of any problem. Is the kid even going to have any idea about gender? Surely it's only later in life that such things would take on any meaning.

Saying a baby has gender issues because it wanted a pink teddy bear strikes me as overreacting pretty seriously. There's a serious difference between an infant wanting something interesting and noisy and an 8 year old wanting to dress up dolls.

[Spoonist]

The father would discourage him and say that toy is for girls, even using the word "shit" several times as he was doing it, i.e.--"shit toy, bad"

In my culture I'd say that the parent had issues if they did this. Repressive behavior like this will not encourage the curiosity of the child in its environment. But in the meditteranean and american cultures I've seen this behavior repeatedly. But almost exclusively when it comes to boys, I've not seen girls being forced to give up "boyish" toys as much as vice versa.

I'd say that there is a difference dependent on why parents do this. Stupid people with issues actually believe that you can make a child "gay" by having them play with the wrong toys. Enforcing that will lead to a false sense of machismo and will lead to problems. Especially since you are not equipping your child with emotional tools to handle dual/conflicting emotions. This leads to homophobic/bigotted behavior since the child/person needs to establish beyond a doubt externally what they cannot accomplish internally.
On the other hand, to discourage odd behavior so that the child will "fit" into mainstream culture is used by almost all parents, the only difference is the degrees to which one does it. There are plenty of examples of parents wanting what is idealy the best for their child and then failing in recognizing the harsh pragmatic realities of children picking on the odd.

Another question for this thread: is there even anything objectively wrong with it?

Objectively is a strange word to use when it comes to culture. What would be objectively wrong would be to force your child to the point of objective harm.

[Dargos]

I've got a play kitchen thats been used and enjoyed by all three of my boys. Its brought many many hours of fun, drinking imaginary coffee and eating imaginary cake that they made with it. We have stuffed animals galore and all three of my boys have played with baby dolls, because they wanted to push a stroller and feed a baby just like dad.

I see nothing wrong about letting children play with what they want to play with.

[Lord Woodlouse]

I don't think it would worry me at all, and I'd not necessarily read too much into it. My nephew Bertie plays with girl and boy stuff, and while he's not the most dramatically rough and tumble boy in the world, there's little to indicate he's suffering any kind of disorder.

...and as others have mentioned, if your kid DOES have such a gender identity issue it's not something you can just brush under the carpet. It'll always be there, and the more you can do to help them the better they're liable to be.

I know a number of transsexuals (online), and the only ones I would say have problems are those who suffered fighting out their identity with friends, family and society at large. When they have to do that, in my mind, they become slightly delusional and paranoid. So to my mind the more you can help them, the more well adjusted they'll be.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I really don't worry about it. As DW pointed out, there are the practical benefits of a kid playing with the gender-appropriate toys, less trouble at school, with peers, and the like. But that's more a cultural problem than a problem with that individual child.

A boy playing with Barbies could be indicative of gender-identity issues. Or it could just be that he's a normal boy who happens to enjoy playing with Barbies at the moment. The fact is, as science stands right now, there is no way to tell which one it is with reasonable certainty, so why worry about something you can't change for the moment?

On a personal level: I always played with the proper 'boy-type' toys when I was a kid. My brother, on the other hand, actually spent quite a bit of time playing with Barbies. Now, twenty years later, he's a bearded, strictly heterosexual history-major, a shining example of educated manliness. I, on the other hand, am a theatre-oriented crossdresser with active plans for a complete male-to-female gender-change as soon as I get the money for it.

Just goes to show, childhood interests are not a rock-solid indicator of what your kids will grow up to be.

[His Divine Shadow]

If I'd happen to have sons it's gonna be cars and toy guns. If I have girls it's gonna be barbies, dolls and toy guns Other than that I echo the general sentiment of DWs post.

[Astarial]

If I'd happen to have sons it's gonna be cars and toy guns. If I have girls it's gonna be barbies, dolls and toy guns Other than that I echo the general sentiment of DWs post.

And if you have both? Gonna say that one kid can't play with toys the other one doesn't want?

[His Divine Shadow]

I thought about that and I figure best to let them play with whatever they want.

[LadyTevar]

Mom tried to get me to play with Barbies, but as the only girl on the block, it was a lost cause.

I was far more interested in blowing up StarWars figures with firecrackers or playing Cowboys & Indjuns, or kickball. Or I'd be just sitting out in the yard making a little fireplace with bricks, then setting things on fire in the fireplace (I'm a pyro, can you tell?).
The charred sticks were then used to draw on the outside walls of my grandma's whitewashed cement half-basement, on myself, or on my brother. I'd draw black lines with the charred sticks, color it in with dandelions (yellow), pokeberries (red/purple), blackberries (purple/red), and grass green. Funny how all the artwork kept vanishing.

Of course, that was when I *wasn't* roaming all over the neighborhood on my bike, or hiking/hiding up on the hillside, up in one of either our trees or a neighbor's tree, or out on grandma's front porch reading a book.

...........
Damn... I had one hell of a great childhood. How can I go back?

[Lord Pounder]

When I was a kid I used to have a male doll called Joey. I turned out fine and well adjusted. kinda.

[RogueIce]

If I'd happen to have sons it's gonna be cars and toy guns. If I have girls it's gonna be barbies, dolls and toy guns Other than that I echo the general sentiment of DWs post.

And if you have both? Gonna say that one kid can't play with toys the other one doesn't want?

Daddy gets the toy guns?

Anyway, to echo what was said earlier, I think it can depend on how one plays with the toys, rather than what the toys are. I remember my sister's Barbie dolls and that beach car made for wonderful collateral damage when my GI Joes got involved...

[Rye]

I actually had a fear of having barbies as a kid, I was worried of being seen playing with one and the social stigma that would cause. Weird, huh? My toys were mostly cars and action figures, and I still think they're cool and wouldn't have had it different aside from maybe a few barbies here and there to represent female characters better in the various (and actually surprisingly intricate) stories we made up with the toys.

[Dark Hellion]

An easy solution to this would just be to make Kickboxer Barbie and give GI Joe an extremely metrosexual mechanic or something. We'll end gender confusion by making the most gender friendly toys ever. Can you say that a kickboxing chick who can take on 250lbs men isn't a masculine toy. I mean GI Joe had Lady J. And the metro mechanic, he has a whole closet of shoes to go with his toolbelt, this is perfectly fine for little girls. We'll just make the most gender confusing toys, then parents won't know what's going on and children can develop without undue and ridiculous pressure to act like walking stereotypes.

[Pollux]

Capital idea, but what shall we do about the most fun thing ever, those dear green Army Men?

[TithonusSyndrome]

I actually had a fear of having barbies as a kid, I was worried of being seen playing with one and the social stigma that would cause. Weird, huh?

Actually, yeah. Growing up for me, there was no better icon of the vile cootie-infested forces of girldom than a Barbie, and they were good fun to humiliate and dismember when playing with toys.

[Astarial]

Capital idea, but what shall we do about the most fun thing ever, those dear green Army Men?

Give them makeovers, tiaras, and fairy wings?