Dio On American Music Scene

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-07-02 09:40pm

I suppose I should point out that havokeff's argument is an Appeal to Motive fallacy, and that there is some serious irony in the fact that he tries to dismiss Dio's comments about the mindless herd mentality of American populism by ... pointing out that Dio is not very popular in the American music scene, hence havokeff doesn't have to listen to anything he says.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2007-07-02 09:54pm

right he's just a former member of Sabbath....

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-07-02 10:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:I suppose I should point out that havokeff's argument is an Appeal to Motive fallacy, and that there is some serious irony in the fact that he tries to dismiss Dio's comments about the mindless herd mentality of American populism by ... pointing out that Dio is not very popular in the American music scene, hence havokeff doesn't have to listen to anything he says.

I heard everything he said. It just sounded like him complaining that he isn't in the mainstream of American music any more.
He is saying how people that watch American Idol are either under 13 or if they are older have and under 10 year old mentality, but says he never once watched it.

He then blasts Mannilo and Stewart for getting recognition and improved record sales from appearing on the show right after he was bitching how the people on the show haven't put in any hard work, haven't paid their dues, and expresses it in a manner of disbelief... like "How can they like these guys when I have to come to Europe to make a buck?!?" Yeah Barry and Rod sure haven't put any hard work into their careers.
Then he starts talking about heavy metal artists getting looked down upon, down the nose I think he said, how only Doo Wop, Rap and "Madonna music" sells pimple cream and not heavy metal. Who the fuck listens to Doo wop and when did HM sell pimple cream. He just sounds like an old guy who is complaining about it's not like the good ole days anymore.

I'm not dismissing his comments about the mindless herd mentality, I partially agree with them, I'm just saying, his whole rant sounds like whining 'cause he isn't one of the cowboys rounding up that herd anymore.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:right he's just a former member of Sabbath....

Yeah, Sabbath sure took off when Dio signed up.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-07-02 10:34pm

havokeff wrote:I'm not dismissing his comments about the mindless herd mentality, I partially agree with them, I'm just saying, his whole rant sounds like whining 'cause he isn't one of the cowboys rounding up that herd anymore.

Do you even know why the Appeal to Motive fallacy is a bad thing?

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-07-02 10:38pm

Darth Wong wrote:
havokeff wrote:I'm not dismissing his comments about the mindless herd mentality, I partially agree with them, I'm just saying, his whole rant sounds like whining 'cause he isn't one of the cowboys rounding up that herd anymore.
Do you even know why the Appeal to Motive fallacy is a bad thing?

No.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-07-02 10:46pm

Wait. I am taking what I think to be Dio's motives for his rant and saying that it invalidates what he is saying, even if he is correct. Is that right?

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2007-07-03 08:01pm

havokeff wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I suppose I should point out that havokeff's argument is an Appeal to Motive fallacy, and that there is some serious irony in the fact that he tries to dismiss Dio's comments about the mindless herd mentality of American populism by ... pointing out that Dio is not very popular in the American music scene, hence havokeff doesn't have to listen to anything he says.
I heard everything he said. It just sounded like him complaining that he isn't in the mainstream of American music any more.
He is saying how people that watch American Idol are either under 13 or if they are older have and under 10 year old mentality, but says he never once watched it.

No, he's saying that he dosen't devote time to watching it himself. And even if he didn't ever watch the show himself, he's hardly off the mark.

He then blasts Mannilo and Stewart for getting recognition and improved record sales from appearing on the show right after he was bitching how the people on the show haven't put in any hard work, haven't paid their dues, and expresses it in a manner of disbelief... like "How can they like these guys when I have to come to Europe to make a buck?!?" Yeah Barry and Rod sure haven't put any hard work into their careers.

Correction: they went on Idol to make a fast buck, something that'd never be available to anyone cut from Dio's cloth.

Then he starts talking about heavy metal artists getting looked down upon, down the nose I think he said, how only Doo Wop, Rap and "Madonna music" sells pimple cream and not heavy metal. Who the fuck listens to Doo wop and when did HM sell pimple cream. He just sounds like an old guy who is complaining about it's not like the good ole days anymore.

Dio's rant is hardly sour grapes, seeing as how he can sell out large venues in Europe and even a few in select North American cities like New York. The fact that the limelight no longer shines on a gem with longevity like Dio is hardly lost on him.

I'm not dismissing his comments about the mindless herd mentality, I partially agree with them, I'm just saying, his whole rant sounds like whining 'cause he isn't one of the cowboys rounding up that herd anymore.

Based on what? I've never rounded up any of that herd myself and I'd make Dio's points under similar circumstances, so I'm curious to know what you think would separate his comments from anyone else's.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:right he's just a former member of Sabbath....
Yeah, Sabbath sure took off when Dio signed up.

Shows what you know. Heaven And Hell, their first post-Ozzy album, was a success like the kind the band hadn't seen in over half a decade and a much needed shot in the band's arm.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-07-03 09:14pm

You know, the worst thing about this thread is, other than getting my ass handed to me on trying to make points, is the damned fact that I can't get Holy Fucking Diver out of my head.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2007-07-03 10:32pm

It's just your Karma man

TithonusSyndrome · Post by **TithonusSyndrome** » 2007-07-03 10:32pm

havokeff wrote:You know, the worst thing about this thread is, other than getting my ass handed to me on trying to make points, is the damned fact that I can't get Holy Fucking Diver out of my head.

I think you've been down too long in the midnight sea.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2007-07-04 10:58am

havokeff wrote:You know, the worst thing about this thread is, other than getting my ass handed to me on trying to make points, is the damned fact that I can't get Holy Fucking Diver out of my head.

I keep getting a conglomeration of Heaven & Hell stuck in my head. I get a missmash of the TenaciousD spoof version mixed with the real version.

It's been going through my head for the last couple of days because of this thread. I find myself trying to whistle bits of it as I'm working.