GCS vs ISD: Calling out Northern Huntsman

[consequences]

Are you saying that Northern Huntsman is actually Sovereign?

[Vympel]

Are you saying that Northern Huntsman is actually Sovereign?

Doubt it. No irrelevant pictures in his posts.

[EmperorMing]

I see his last post was sometime on the 6th. Puss.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Originally posted by Northern Huntsman:
Range,

Liar. IIRC they both have enough supplies for 5 years. However in 1 DAY an ISD can travel farther then a GCS could do in a YEAR.

maneuveribility,

The GCS has not demonstrated enough maneuverability to be largely useful due to its size. Hardly a weakness, concidering in ST it's a large capital ship.

weapons coverage,

How? The dorsal side of an ISD is covered with 8 HTL batteries. The ventral has many smaller guns and medium ones. Plus rolling is an ISD tactic.

sensor capabilities,

Prove it. And it's irrelevant in a one-on-one fight because
1. They will be certainly placed close together
2. Neither have stealth capabilities.
3. Since the Galaxy's sensor range is longer than it's weapons so the ISD will spot the GCS before it can attack.

and firepower depending on whose views of canon you use, and which calculations.

Oh please. I haven't seen any rattional Trekkie try to save phasers were anywhere close to even 10 gigatons. OTOH, we have OFFICIAL proof that smaller guns on a 20 year old transport are 200 gigatons.

[Tootootoo]

Quote:
Originally posted by Northern Huntsman:
Range,



Liar. IIRC they both have enough supplies for 5 years. However in 1 DAY an ISD can travel farther then a GCS could do in a YEAR.

That's kind of irrelivent.. its not a race to see who goes the farthest, its a battle. In 1 day an ISD may travel further then a GCS could in a year, but ISD is incredibly slow in sublight, and warp engines are slow enough that it could run loops around an ISD just out of weapons range while remaining close enough that it couldn't hyperjump at them.

Quote:
maneuveribility,



The GCS has not demonstrated enough maneuverability to be largely useful due to its size. Hardly a weakness, concidering in ST it's a large capital ship.

I disagree. It may not be maneuverable by ST standards, but I've seen capital ships pull off pretty good maneuvers, especially compared to an ISD. The GSC could literally strafe the ISD at warp (something attempted in non-canon lit by the Empire but failed, and even then it was only bombing against stationary cities) while firing its torpedoes.

Quote:

weapons coverage,



How? The dorsal side of an ISD is covered with 8 HTL batteries. The ventral has many smaller guns and medium ones. Plus rolling is an ISD tactic.

GCS has pretty much 360 degree weapons coverage. ISD's have prominant blindspots, such as behind the bridge section. And the GSC's maneuverability would allow it to get there.

Quote:
sensor capabilities,



Prove it. And it's irrelevant in a one-on-one fight because
1. They will be certainly placed close together
2. Neither have stealth capabilities.
3. Since the Galaxy's sensor range is longer than it's weapons so the ISD will spot the GCS before it can attack.

Prove it:
In Hope two ISDs almost collided. Whether it was incompetant crewmen at the helm or their active sensors were focused on the Falcon, who knows.
In Empire the fleet, including the Executor, wasnt able to detect the Falcon inside an asteroid.
Also in Empire it wasn't able to detect a small ship attached to its hull.
Imp sensors aren't capable of being used in hyperspace, also, they may not be able to detect things moving faster than light.
However Fed sensors have been able to scan through rock, bulkheads, ships, people, etc etc, detect cloaked ships, and other magical things, and probably be able to detect ships approaching from hyperspace.
1: That seems unlikely.
2: No, but Fed shields have been configured on numerous occasions to fool enemy sensors. The GSC could either use its own shields or a shuttlecraft's shields.
3: Not true. Sure, 99% of the time the weapons are used at close range, but there have been instances where their longer ranges have been exercised. For instance in a TOS episode the Enterprise fired on a rather large object that was out of visual range. Also, torps move at the speed of light, yet there was a lag time of several seconds before they hit, and considering the object was moving at them at high warp as well, the target must have been fruitfully far away. Also in ST most engagements are short ranged because of circumstance. A cloaked ship decloaks nearby, or they come around a planet, or one ship approaches another and they get pissed off and start shooting, or even a viewscreen's magnification could make it seem closer. Plus, in space there's nothing to judge distance by.

Anyway, this is what I would do if I were GSC commander.
Firstly I would probably detect the massive ISD before he detected me. I would assume, and rightfully so, that I know he is hostile instead of walking up to him and asking to be shot like most Starfleet people would.
I have several options. I can lie in wait in perhaps an asteroid field or other ambushy surprise. Or I can try and sneak up on him.
Sneaking up shouldn't be that hard. I could either send a shuttlecraft in with configured shields with a small away team onboard. They would get in close proximity to the ISD and scan it, figuring out its power systems and weak areas, etc. Then they could either attack these systems with torpedoes transported to their location, or simply act as a relaying spy, perhaps using the blind spot behind the ISD's bridge section. In any case, I have my hand in his pocket.
It would be suicide to launch a head on attack on an ISD because he could easily take me out with a single TL blast, because I'm in one of the most flimsily made ships ever to disgrace space. Anyway, hit and run tactics will be needed.
I'm sure that an ISD's TL turrets don't rotate at the speed of light, so I can probably use warp drive to pass by the ISD, launch several torpedoes at weak-spots that the shuttle has scanned for, and get away without being fired upon, if even targetted. I could continue this, pinpricking the beast until I manage to hit a sensitive system with a torpedo. In the ensuing madness, the shuttle is still safely hidden from view, perhaps going so far as attacking the ISD's engines.

I could also beam aboard an away team onboard the bridge of the ISD, or even a torpedo. (As for those saying that an ISD has things to stop this, there really is no proof. ISDs may have shields but they certainly aren't very dramatic. And also, unlike the shields on Trek ships, they seem to have generators placed all over the hull, so that ISD shields are more of a mosaic of different emissions rather then the "bubble", so there would probably be gaps in this that the transports could take advantage of.) The shuttle as well would be able to penetrate the shields of the ISD, as they seem to be energy shields and not kinetic shields (IE they stop some types of energy, Turbolasers and such, but not matter, fighters/ships). Actually, since I'm infact a mercilless bastard, I would beam the entire bridge crew of the ISD into space and let them pop like pimples.

I personally think that the Defiant, made to battle huge Borg cubes, would be very affective against ISDs. Their small size, maneuverability and speed would be pretty effective against ISD's, and using various tactics they could probably get the job done using the right methods.

Anyway, tralallalaa!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Quote:
Originally posted by Northern Huntsman:
Range,



Liar. IIRC they both have enough supplies for 5 years. However in 1 DAY an ISD can travel farther then a GCS could do in a YEAR.

That's kind of irrelivent.. its not a race to see who goes the farthest, its a battle. In 1 day an ISD may travel further then a GCS could in a year, but ISD is incredibly slow in sublight, and warp engines are slow enough that it could run loops around an ISD just out of weapons range while remaining close enough that it couldn't hyperjump at them.

Which has nothing to do with range. Concession Accepted.

Quote:
maneuveribility,



The GCS has not demonstrated enough maneuverability to be largely useful due to its size. Hardly a weakness, concidering in ST it's a large capital ship.

I disagree. It may not be maneuverable by ST standards, but I've seen capital ships pull off pretty good maneuvers, especially compared to an ISD. The GSC could literally strafe the ISD at warp (something attempted in non-canon lit by the Empire but failed, and even then it was only bombing against stationary cities) while firing its torpedoes. [/quoute]

BULLSHIT! The only times ST ships have warp strafed they were moving at far less then c. And the Klingon ships in WOTW never strafed DS9.

Quote:

weapons coverage,



How? The dorsal side of an ISD is covered with 8 HTL batteries. The ventral has many smaller guns and medium ones. Plus rolling is an ISD tactic.

GCS has pretty much 360 degree weapons coverage. ISD's have prominant blindspots, such as behind the bridge section. And the GSC's maneuverability would allow it to get there.

Wrong. The GCS is too large to hide behind the bridge so it would have to eat 16 HTLs.

Quote:
sensor capabilities,



Prove it. And it's irrelevant in a one-on-one fight because
1. They will be certainly placed close together
2. Neither have stealth capabilities.
3. Since the Galaxy's sensor range is longer than it's weapons so the ISD will spot the GCS before it can attack.

Prove it:
In Hope two ISDs almost collided. Whether it was incompetant crewmen at the helm or their active sensors were focused on the Falcon, who knows.

Wrong dumbass. A WINDOW could have seen the ISDs. It was because Vader wanted that ship. if Vader doesn't get what he wants, people have breathing problems.

In Empire the fleet, including the Executor, wasnt able to detect the Falcon inside an asteroid.

And in "Pegasus" the E-D coulding find the Pegasus in an asteroid for a while, despite it being far larger then the Falcon and not in the belly of a spacemonster.

Also in Empire it wasn't able to detect a small ship attached to its hull.

Blindspot. They weren't looking there as they thought the Falcon was gone. A Klingon ship couldn't detect a hole in its hull.

Imp sensors aren't capable of being used in hyperspace, also, they may not be able to detect things moving faster than light.

They can.

However Fed sensors have been able to scan through rock, bulkheads, ships, people, etc etc, detect cloaked ships, and other magical things, and probably be able to detect ships approaching from hyperspace.

Prove it. And they couldn't find the cloaked Scimitar, nor two cloaked Romulan warbirds in Nemesis.

1: That seems unlikely.

No it's not. Battles aren't fun waiting for the ships to fight.

2: No, but Fed shields have been configured on numerous occasions to fool enemy sensors. The GSC could either use its own shields or a shuttlecraft's shields.

Prove it will work on an ISD.

3: Not true. Sure, 99% of the time the weapons are used at close range, but there have been instances where their longer ranges have been exercised. For instance in a TOS episode the Enterprise fired on a rather large object that was out of visual range.

Impressive! [beyond sarcasm]

Also, torps move at the speed of light, yet there was a lag time of several seconds before they hit, and considering the object was moving at them at high warp as well, the target must have been fruitfully far away.

Wrong. Torpedoes have NEVER been shown to be SoL.

Also in ST most engagements are short ranged because of circumstance. A cloaked ship decloaks nearby, or they come around a planet, or one ship approaches another and they get pissed off and start shooting, or even a viewscreen's magnification could make it seem closer. Plus, in space there's nothing to judge distance by.

Wrong. We see the Dominion and Federation fleets close until they're together in SoL and WYLB.

Anyway, this is what I would do if I were GSC commander.
Firstly I would probably detect the massive ISD before he detected me. I would assume, and rightfully so, that I know he is hostile instead of walking up to him and asking to be shot like most Starfleet people would.
I have several options. I can lie in wait in perhaps an asteroid field or other ambushy surprise. Or I can try and sneak up on him.
Sneaking up shouldn't be that hard. I could either send a shuttlecraft in with configured shields with a small away team onboard. They would get in close proximity to the ISD and scan it, figuring out its power systems and weak areas, etc. Then they could either attack these systems with torpedoes transported to their location, or simply act as a relaying spy, perhaps using the blind spot behind the ISD's bridge section. In any case, I have my hand in his pocket.
It would be suicide to launch a head on attack on an ISD because he could easily take me out with a single TL blast, because I'm in one of the most flimsily made ships ever to disgrace space. Anyway, hit and run tactics will be needed.
I'm sure that an ISD's TL turrets don't rotate at the speed of light, so I can probably use warp drive to pass by the ISD, launch several torpedoes at weak-spots that the shuttle has scanned for, and get away without being fired upon, if even targetted. I could continue this, pinpricking the beast until I manage to hit a sensitive system with a torpedo. In the ensuing madness, the shuttle is still safely hidden from view, perhaps going so far as attacking the ISD's engines.

I could also beam aboard an away team onboard the bridge of the ISD, or even a torpedo. (As for those saying that an ISD has things to stop this, there really is no proof. ISDs may have shields but they certainly aren't very dramatic. And also, unlike the shields on Trek ships, they seem to have generators placed all over the hull, so that ISD shields are more of a mosaic of different emissions rather then the "bubble", so there would probably be gaps in this that the transports could take advantage of.) The shuttle as well would be able to penetrate the shields of the ISD, as they seem to be energy shields and not kinetic shields (IE they stop some types of energy, Turbolasers and such, but not matter, fighters/ships). Actually, since I'm infact a mercilless bastard, I would beam the entire bridge crew of the ISD into space and let them pop like pimples.

I personally think that the Defiant, made to battle huge Borg cubes, would be very affective against ISDs. Their small size, maneuverability and speed would be pretty effective against ISD's, and using various tactics they could probably get the job done using the right methods.

Anyway, tralallalaa!

SW shields do stop matter dumbfuck. And ANYTHING can stop transporters.

[Master of Ossus]

Since almost all of your points are also used by Mr. Anderson, I would recommend that you stop by the main site to check out my rebuttal of his work. You can find it here:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/HateMail/RSA/MoO/

[Kuja]

Anyway, this is what I would do if I were GSC commander.
Firstly I would probably detect the massive ISD before he detected me.

Back that up.

I would assume, and rightfully so, that I know he is hostile instead of walking up to him and asking to be shot like most Starfleet people would.

Wait a frickin minute. You'd fire on a ship that has made no aggressive moves and has not fired on you? Get off the bridge. Now.

I have several options. I can lie in wait in perhaps an asteroid field or other ambushy surprise.

So you'll sit there, happily being pelted by asteroids, watching your shields drain? Smart move, Captain Shitforbrains.

Or I can try and sneak up on him.

In a GCS? Thank you, I've had my laugh for the day.

Sneaking up shouldn't be that hard. I could either send a shuttlecraft in with configured shields with a small away team onboard. They would get in close proximity to the ISD and scan it, figuring out its power systems and weak areas, etc. Then they could either attack these systems with torpedoes transported to their location, or simply act as a relaying spy, perhaps using the blind spot behind the ISD's bridge section.

And OF COURSE the ISD will sit there and do nothing while your shuttle takes its sweet old time scanning it.

In any case, I have my hand in his pocket.

Riiiiight.

It would be suicide to launch a head on attack on an ISD because he could easily take me out with a single TL blast, because I'm in one of the most flimsily made ships ever to disgrace space. Anyway, hit and run tactics will be needed.

No way you can enter and exit the ISD's range in something GCS-sized and not take a single hit.

I'm sure that an ISD's TL turrets don't rotate at the speed of light, so I can probably use warp drive to pass by the ISD, launch several torpedoes at weak-spots that the shuttle has scanned for, and get away without being fired upon, if even targetted.

They WILL see you coming, dummy.

I could continue this, pinpricking the beast until I manage to hit a sensitive system with a torpedo. In the ensuing madness, the shuttle is still safely hidden from view, perhaps going so far as attacking the ISD's engines.

You can't even get through the shields. Bullshit.

I could also beam aboard an away team onboard the bridge of the ISD, or even a torpedo. (As for those saying that an ISD has things to stop this, there really is no proof. ISDs may have shields but they certainly aren't very dramatic. And also, unlike the shields on Trek ships, they seem to have generators placed all over the hull, so that ISD shields are more of a mosaic of different emissions rather then the "bubble", so there would probably be gaps in this that the transports could take advantage of.)

Quit making wild claims, you fricking idiot.

The shuttle as well would be able to penetrate the shields of the ISD, as they seem to be energy shields and not kinetic shields (IE they stop some types of energy, Turbolasers and such, but not matter, fighters/ships).

They have both. It's canon.

Actually, since I'm infact a mercilless bastard,

and dumb as a rock, to boot,

I would beam the entire bridge crew of the ISD into space and let them pop like pimples.

I personally think that the Defiant, made to battle huge Borg cubes, would be very affective against ISDs. Their small size, maneuverability and speed would be pretty effective against ISD's, and using various tactics they could probably get the job done using the right methods.

ONE SHOT will kill you. And there is no way in hell a single Defian will pierce the shields of an ISD. You are dead and don't even know it.

[Darth Wong]

I love the "logic" that if there's a blind spot right behind an ISD's shield tower, that blind spot must extend out to infinity. There's a blind spot on the grass right below a typical window in the average house; does that mean someone can approach that window from 100 feet away without being seen?

Fucking morons ...

[Master of Ossus]

I love the parts where they claim that the Defiant is maneuverable enough to be able to evade ISD fire, even though they are FAR larger than the starfighters the Alliance used to engage ISD's in the movie. Moreover, I also like how these people claim that warp-strafing is possible without any evidence, and assume that all ST technology would work perfectly against ISD's even though it frequently does not work against other races in ST.

Here's what I would do if I were the ISD commander:

Step 1: Detect the GCS coming. It is irrelevent if he has already seen me.

Step 2: Fire one MTL shot at the GCS.

There is no step three.

[Slartibartfast]

I love the parts where they claim that the Defiant is maneuverable enough to be able to evade ISD fire, even though they are FAR larger than the starfighters the Alliance used to engage ISD's in the movie. Moreover, I also like how these people claim that warp-strafing is possible without any evidence, and assume that all ST technology would work perfectly against ISD's even though it frequently does not work against other races in ST.

Here's what I would do if I were the ISD commander:

Step 1: Detect the GCS coming. It is irrelevent if he has already seen me.

Step 2: Fire one MTL shot at the GCS.

There is no step three.

Step 3: Have a beer!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I love the "logic" that if there's a blind spot right behind an ISD's shield tower, that blind spot must extend out to infinity. There's a blind spot on the grass right below a typical window in the average house; does that mean someone can approach that window from 100 feet away without being seen?

Fucking morons ...

I also like how they think any ship could GET to the blindspot. I mean, the Falcon flew over the HTL turrets, and was only saved by the fact the Avenger wanted to capture them.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Northern Huntsman is a typical idiot Trekkie. He assumes magical configured shields will instantly hide a shuttle (even assuming this worked, it could only use passive sensors), that since SW has no transporters it can't blocked them (even though jamming, thick armour, mid-20th century CVN reactors, and natural ores can), and SW has no physical shields (even though General Dodanna had to specify that the shaft on the DS was only ray-shielded, numerous asteroids explode against ISDs shields in ESB, Captain Needa orders shields up to stop the ramming Falcon, and Admiral Piett got scared when the Executor's shields went down and wanted to blast any ramming fighters).


EDIT: Oops, I mean Tootootoo. But Northern Huntsman is still dumb.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Step 4. Occupy Risa or Rigel IX (Orion) and let the stormtroopers have some much needed shore leave.

[Ender]

That's kind of irrelivent.. its not a race to see who goes the farthest, its a battle. In 1 day an ISD may travel further then a GCS could in a year, but ISD is incredibly slow in sublight, and warp engines are slow enough that it could run loops around an ISD just out of weapons range while remaining close enough that it couldn't hyperjump at them.

1) You plan is pointless, as it means that you are constantly running away because if you are outside the ISD's range, you are well outside the GCS range
2) Hyperjumps between two points in a solar system have been preformed before, so you can't do what you are talking about. If you are outside it's range, even if only so by a few meters, it can jump to your position.

I disagree. It may not be maneuverable by ST standards, but I've seen capital ships pull off pretty good maneuvers, especially compared to an ISD.

ISDs hit smaller ships that to much more manuvering then the GCS has shown to be capable of all the time. See ESB and the Falcon.

The GSC could literally strafe the ISD at warp (something attempted in non-canon lit by the Empire but failed, and even then it was only bombing against stationary cities) while firing its torpedoes.

1) I would love this reference to when the Empire tried to strafe at warp and failed. You know, considering it doesn't have warp tech and all. So please provide it.
2) Warp strafing in Trek is a total myth. Provide a single example of it.

GCS has pretty much 360 degree weapons coverage. ISD's have prominant blindspots, such as behind the bridge section. And the GSC's maneuverability would allow it to get there.

The only "prominant" blindspot it has to weapons coverage is at the engines, and if you are sitting there you are taking more damage then a full volley tosses out anyways. There is a minor blindspot when you are up close to the back of the bridgetower, but if you go too far out, the turrets can get you. And I would love to hear how you think a ship 2/5ths the size of an ISD is going to get that close and not be targeted. Even if it was humping the bridge tower, the rest of it wouls stick out so fat that the turrets would just point straight up and blast it.

Prove it:
In Hope two ISDs almost collided.

By all means, show me this scene in "A New Hope" where two ISDs almost hit. I await it with baited breath, because so far the only near collision is 3 ISDs in Empire Strikes Back.

Whether it was incompetant crewmen at the helm or their active sensors were focused on the Falcon, who knows.

They could see each other. This scene is irrelevent to sensors. If anything, it indicates glory seeking and poor communication because they were all gunning for the same target and expected the other to move out of their way instead of manuvering to box it in.

In Empire the fleet, including the Executor, wasnt able to detect the Falcon inside an asteroid.

Imagine that, after getting creamed with a few Ion Cannon shots they couldn't find a powered down (and thus no different from a hunk of metal) ship in a giant asteroid belt filled with chunks of metal.

Also in Empire it wasn't able to detect a small ship attached to its hull.

It's the same deal as with modern surface ships: The engine wash obscures sensor readings.

Imp sensors aren't capable of being used in hyperspace, also, they may not be able to detect things moving faster than light.

Bullshit on both accounts.

However Fed sensors have been able to scan through rock, bulkheads, ships, people, etc etc, detect cloaked ships, and other magical things, and probably be able to detect ships approaching from hyperspace.

I will grant that due to Parity we allow for their FTL sensors to detect incoming ships.

1: That seems unlikely.

You say that, yet provide no reason why

2: No, but Fed shields have been configured on numerous occasions to fool enemy sensors. The GSC could either use its own shields or a shuttlecraft's shields.

Is it there? Yes. Does it have mass? Yes. Does mass effect gravity? Yes. Do ISDs have gravity sensors? Yes. So will your suggestion work? No.

3: Not true.

So they shoot at things they don't know are there? Their sensor range has to be longer then their weapons range.

Sure, 99% of the time the weapons are used at close range, but there have been instances where their longer ranges have been exercised. For instance in a TOS episode the Enterprise fired on a rather large object that was out of visual range.

Which says absolutly nothing for their capabilities. From 15 miles away, I can't see an aircraft carrier.

Also, torps move at the speed of light,

Wow, that is either a lack of understanding about the real world and basic physics, or a complete and total lie. We can se the damn things move across the screen. There for they do not move at C

yet there was a lag time of several seconds before they hit, and considering the object was moving at them at high warp as well, the target must have been fruitfully far away.

Conclusion based on false information is invalid

Also in ST most engagements are short ranged because of circumstance. A cloaked ship decloaks nearby, or they come around a planet, or one ship approaches another and they get pissed off and start shooting, or even a viewscreen's magnification could make it seem closer. Plus, in space there's nothing to judge distance by.

Even going with the highest range given for Trek of 5 million kilometers, and assuming that this will work in combat, you still get beaten down by the fact that the highest observed range for an ISD is 8 AU low end.

Anyway, this is what I would do if I were GSC commander.
Firstly I would probably detect the massive ISD before he detected me.

Problem is that both know the other is there.

I would assume, and rightfully so, that I know he is hostile instead of walking up to him and asking to be shot like most Starfleet people would.

For the sake of the debate, both sides know the other is hostile. Way to state the known.

I have several options. I can lie in wait in perhaps an asteroid field or other ambushy surprise.

Oh that's a great idea. You really want to be around when the asteroids start going up like bombs when the ISD starts shooting them upon entering the field.

Or I can try and sneak up on him.

How the fuck is a 640 meter ship going to sneak up on anything.

Sneaking up shouldn't be that hard. I could either send a shuttlecraft in with configured shields with a small away team onboard. They would get in close proximity to the ISD and scan it, figuring out its power systems and weak areas, etc. Then they could either attack these systems with torpedoes transported to their location, or simply act as a relaying spy, perhaps using the blind spot behind the ISD's bridge section. In any case, I have my hand in his pocket.

So the ISD is just going to sit there while you do all this? Here's what will happen:
"Sir, a fighter sized craft from the enemy ship is approaching"
"Shoot it down"

It would be suicide to launch a head on attack on an ISD because he could easily take me out with a single TL blast, because I'm in one of the most flimsily made ships ever to disgrace space. Anyway, hit and run tactics will be needed.

That, and one hell of alot more firepower.

I'm sure that an ISD's TL turrets don't rotate at the speed of light,

Nothing mechanical moves at C

so I can probably use warp drive to pass by the ISD, launch several torpedoes at weak-spots that the shuttle has scanned for, and get away without being fired upon, if even targetted.

Right, provide proof that the scanning will get through active ECM, that your torpedoes can get through shields a minimum (using the Acclamator's numbers) of 15625x stronger then they are, and that warp strafing is at all possible.

I could continue this, pinpricking the beast until I manage to hit a sensitive system with a torpedo.

Exactly how are your torps going to get through the shields to hit said system?

In the ensuing madness, the shuttle is still safely hidden from view, perhaps going so far as attacking the ISD's engines.

You are yet to explain why the shuttle is allowed to sit there unnoticed and not paid any attention to. And a shuttle attacking the engines is the most laughable thing I have heard of in a while here. The exhaust is more intense then the sun, and the engine bell can handle that. So I want to know how the phasers on a shuttle are going to do fuck all to the engine bell, then I want to know how the shutle is going to survive the attack run when they fly through the engine wash

I could also beam aboard an away team onboard the bridge of the ISD, or even a torpedo. (As for those saying that an ISD has things to stop this, there really is no proof.

Funny, you have no proof that a transporter can punch through spacetime warping ECM, multiteraton shields, and a neutronium enriched hull.

ISDs may have shields but they certainly aren't very dramatic.

WTF does that mean? That they don't let hits bleed through, making the bridge panels explode and upping the dramatic tension of the scene?

And also, unlike the shields on Trek ships, they seem to have generators placed all over the hull, so that ISD shields are more of a mosaic of different emissions rather then the "bubble", so there would probably be gaps in this that the transports could take advantage of.

Prove that assertion.

The shuttle as well would be able to penetrate the shields of the ISD, as they seem to be energy shields and not kinetic shields (IE they stop some types of energy, Turbolasers and such, but not matter, fighters/ships).

Since when do they not block matter.

Actually, since I'm infact a mercilless bastard, I would beam the entire bridge crew of the ISD into space and let them pop like pimples.

I'm awaiting the proof I request above that transporting is possible

I personally think that the Defiant, made to battle huge Borg cubes, would be very affective against ISDs. Their small size, maneuverability and speed would be pretty effective against ISD's,

Ships smaller, more manuverable, and faster then the defiant get hit in the movies. So why do you think that would do fuck all?

and using various tactics they could probably get the job done using the right methods.

Yeah, and the right method would probably suck off Q until he agrees to make the Empire go away.

[Ender]

Northern Huntsman is a typical idiot Trekkie.

Oh, this is a sock puppet account? I wish I hadn't been so nice in my reply then.

[beyond hope]

Northern Huntsman is a typical idiot Trekkie.

Oh, this is a sock puppet account? I wish I hadn't been so nice in my reply then.

I don't think that was Northern Huntsman, it looks more like some newbie took it upon himself to fall on the grenade.

Sheesh... that leaves a mess with thermal detonators.

[consequences]

No mess, just a crater with a bit of carbon residue.

[The Yosemite Bear]

You know I love SFB for making the saucer section Phasor's FX arcs.

I just want to see a picture of some fed ship slicing off their own warp pylon's trying to prove the Fanboy's claims of a 360* firing arc.

[Artanis]

I just want to see a picture of some fed ship slicing off their own warp pylon's trying to prove the Fanboy's claims of a 360* firing arc.

*Sean Connery voice*: Captain, I'm afraid they got us

[Antediluvian]

What I want to know is where this configuring shields to make them invisible to sensors crap came from.

Was that actually in a movie or episode, or just made up?

[The Dark]

The GCS has not demonstrated enough maneuverability to be largely useful due to its size. Hardly a weakness, concidering in ST it's a large capital ship.

I disagree. It may not be maneuverable by ST standards, but I've seen capital ships pull off pretty good maneuvers, especially compared to an ISD. The GSC could literally strafe the ISD at warp (something attempted in non-canon lit by the Empire but failed, and even then it was only bombing against stationary cities) while firing its torpedoes.

Find a single canon example of ST warp strafing. They mention it as being a theoretical possibility within their physics. Theoretically, we could use fusion as a clean nuclear power source that would make fossil fuels obsolete. Get the analogy? Good. Now STFU about warp strafing.

weapons coverage,

How? The dorsal side of an ISD is covered with 8 HTL batteries. The ventral has many smaller guns and medium ones. Plus rolling is an ISD tactic.

GCS has pretty much 360 degree weapons coverage. ISD's have prominant blindspots, such as behind the bridge section. And the GSC's maneuverability would allow it to get there.[/quote]
Gee...a blind spot of maybe 15 degrees, that may extend a couple hundred meters before other sensors and the HTL turrets can fire behind the bridge. Good luck fitting a .64 kilometer ship in a blind spot smaller than it is.

sensor capabilities,

Prove it. And it's irrelevant in a one-on-one fight because
1. They will be certainly placed close together
2. Neither have stealth capabilities.
3. Since the Galaxy's sensor range is longer than it's weapons so the ISD will spot the GCS before it can attack.

Prove it:
In Hope two ISDs almost collided. Whether it was incompetant crewmen at the helm or their active sensors were focused on the Falcon, who knows.

Most likely overenthusiasm to achieve the capture. As mentioned earlier, when Vader was displeased, people tended to die. Also, I don't recall 2 ISDs almost colliding in ANH. There were two in Tatooine orbit, but they were plenty far away from each other.

In Empire the fleet, including the Executor, wasnt able to detect the Falcon inside an asteroid.

So...they couldn't detect a hunk of metal inside a hunk of metal? Not that surprising. The Enterprise has had the same problems. They couldn't detect a non-stealth minefield in OPEN SPACE.

Also in Empire it wasn't able to detect a small ship attached to its hull.

And that's relevant how? The Enterprise is only about 23 1/2 times the size of the Falcon.

Imp sensors aren't capable of being used in hyperspace, also, they may not be able to detect things moving faster than light.

Umm...utter BS here. The Imperial Fleet knew when the Rebel Fleet was about to arrive (ROTJ novelization). Also, the official literature makes it perfectly clear that sensors work in warp (Black Fleet Crisis). The canon (as far as I remember) only strongly suggests it (how would the SD crews know the Falcon jumped and didn't just go stealth? They were out of visual range).

However Fed sensors have been able to scan through rock, bulkheads, ships, people, etc etc, detect cloaked ships, and other magical things, and probably be able to detect ships approaching from hyperspace.

They detected one ship in stealth due to a flaw in the device. They completely missed a stealthed planet that they knew the location of. Sensors have been blocked by many rocks. Scanning through people is nothing special. Ever heard of Roentgen Rays? Maybe you know them better as X-Rays? 21st century technology can scan through metal and rock; it seems the Federation is at (other than propulsion, shields, and directed energy) roughly a mid-21st century level of technology.

2: No, but Fed shields have been configured on numerous occasions to fool enemy sensors. The GSC could either use its own shields or a shuttlecraft's shields.

Canon example, please?

3: Not true. Sure, 99% of the time the weapons are used at close range, but there have been instances where their longer ranges have been exercised. For instance in a TOS episode the Enterprise fired on a rather large object that was out of visual range.

Sensor range, not visual range. To have a weapon that has more range than your sensors is moronic beyond belief. If you missed your target (common for ST ships), you may shoot that allied ship you couldn't see.

Also, torps move at the speed of light, yet there was a lag time of several seconds before they hit, and considering the object was moving at them at high warp as well, the target must have been fruitfully far away.

If they were at warp and fired a SoL weapon, they would have shot themselves. Torpedoes move at a relative acceleration to the firing craft, but are definitely not SoL weapons (as can be observed in multiple episodes where they take half a minute to cover a couple light-seconds at most).

Also in ST most engagements are short ranged because of circumstance. A cloaked ship decloaks nearby, or they come around a planet, or one ship approaches another and they get pissed off and start shooting, or even a viewscreen's magnification could make it seem closer. Plus, in space there's nothing to judge distance by.

Sure there is. Known size relative to observed size gives distance. That's how people manage to walk around without walking into walls (well, those of you who have good depth perception...my shoulder's bruised again). And I suppose circumstance leads fleet leaders to close to rock-throwing ranges when they have long-ranged weapons?

Anyway, this is what I would do if I were GSC commander.
Firstly I would probably detect the massive ISD before he detected me. I would assume, and rightfully so, that I know he is hostile instead of walking up to him and asking to be shot like most Starfleet people would.

Of course, that's assuming they don't have TIEs flying scout patrols, and that ST passives do have better range and resolution than SW passives. Going active would telegraph your position immediately. And given that SDs have detected ships across a solar system in Solo Command, that assumption will likely have lethal consequences.

I have several options. I can lie in wait in perhaps an asteroid field or other ambushy surprise.

And either you'll be detected by having your shields and SID up, or you'll be detected by sensors and pelted by asteroids when you drop shields and keep SID up, or your ship will fall apart when you drop your SID.

Or I can try and sneak up on him.

Right. Because 640 meter ships are so much smaller than 1600 meter ships that they won't possibly be noticed .

Sneaking up shouldn't be that hard. I could either send a shuttlecraft in with configured shields with a small away team onboard. They would get in close proximity to the ISD and scan it, figuring out its power systems and weak areas, etc. Then they could either attack these systems with torpedoes transported to their location, or simply act as a relaying spy, perhaps using the blind spot behind the ISD's bridge section.

1. You're assuming the SD won't shoot down the shuttle with its point defense guns.
2. You're assuming the scan will penetrate shields heavier than any in ST and armor denser than planetary surfaces.
3. You're assuming you can transport through SW shields, which is unlikely to be true.
4. You're assuming no TIEs will show up to make your shuttle turn into a small ball of plasma.

In any case, I have my hand in his pocket.

More likely you have your dead shuttle crew in his records.

It would be suicide to launch a head on attack on an ISD because he could easily take me out with a single TL blast, because I'm in one of the most flimsily made ships ever to disgrace space. Anyway, hit and run tactics will be needed.

Right. Hit and run from a ship that has never shown the capability to do hit and run on space stations, let alone actively maneuvering ships that carry fighters. And good luck approaching from somewhere at TL can't reach.

I'm sure that an ISD's TL turrets don't rotate at the speed of light, so I can probably use warp drive to pass by the ISD, launch several torpedoes at weak-spots that the shuttle has scanned for, and get away without being fired upon, if even targetted. I could continue this, pinpricking the beast until I manage to hit a sensitive system with a torpedo. In the ensuing madness, the shuttle is still safely hidden from view, perhaps going so far as attacking the ISD's engines.

By now the shuttle is dead. The torpedoes will do nothing but madden the beast, as the entire payload of a GCS will maybe drop shields 1%. If the crew gets truly annoyed, they could just begin random firing into space. Eventually the laws of probability will ensure you drop from warp somewhere intersected by a TL bolt.

I could also beam aboard an away team onboard the bridge of the ISD, or even a torpedo. (As for those saying that an ISD has things to stop this, there really is no proof. ISDs may have shields but they certainly aren't very dramatic.

No, they merely stop shots that would pierce both sides of a GCS and continue on to strike anything behind them.

And also, unlike the shields on Trek ships, they seem to have generators placed all over the hull, so that ISD shields are more of a mosaic of different emissions rather then the "bubble", so there would probably be gaps in this that the transports could take advantage of.)

This is an advantage. The shield areas overlap, meaning that even if one generator is miraculously taken down, the hole will be smaller than the area of coverage.

The shuttle as well would be able to penetrate the shields of the ISD, as they seem to be energy shields and not kinetic shields (IE they stop some types of energy, Turbolasers and such, but not matter, fighters/ships).

Which is why they have to drop shields over the fighter bay to launch fighters. Right.

Actually, since I'm infact a mercilless bastard, I would beam the entire bridge crew of the ISD into space and let them pop like pimples.

Actually, since transporters are essentially useless in combat, you would get pasted to the wall before the transporters cycled. Can you imagine the crew won't struggle against it, much like the guy who managed to CANCEL a transport by pushing his arms out?

I personally think that the Defiant, made to battle huge Borg cubes, would be very affective against ISDs. Their small size, maneuverability and speed would be pretty effective against ISD's, and using various tactics they could probably get the job done using the right methods.

Right. Because Defiant's small, at five times the size of the Millenium Falcon. Or twice the size of Amidala's Royal Starship, which a converted cargo ship had no problem hitting. Right. Yeah...*sigh*

[Howedar]

I'll point out now that no Federation starship, canon or otherwise, could withstand a single MTL bolt from an Acclamator. I'll also point out now that no Federation starship, canon or otherwise, carries enough torpedos to even take down a sector of an ISD's shields even 5%.

[IceHawk-151]

And the point of this argument was what?
Even with conservative numbers a pair of Galaxy-class vessels would be outmacthed by a ISD II.

The GCS only hope to win is:
1) Funnel all Phaser power into shields to give them a small boost.
2) Close with the ISD from behind and below.
3) Nail as many Photon Torpedoes into the engine section of the ISD in hopes that the Particle shields will take a dive and the impulse engines get slagged.
4) Pull away at max warp to regenerate shields and start again. If there are two GCS maybe they can do hand offs, or keep the ISD busy and stop it from rolling the ship.

I would like to remind everery one that we saw one instance of HTL Cannons being used. In that situation atleast 2 of 4 shots missed. At best the percieved accuracy of HTL is 60 % at point blank range. ---> Just a thought

In the end however the greater quantity of weapons fire from the ISD will smash the GCS pair into bits.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Where was that?

We saw an ISD possibly using the HTL turrets in Endor firing at a target off-screen.

As Saxton explained numerous times, at close ranges not only is geometry unfavorable for large guns, but ships can make relatively minute course corrections and it will no longer be the HTLs' line of sight.