Catharism

[Kitsune]

I am curious why people consider that it became so popular before it was crushed by the Catholic Church?

The reason I ask is that many of their values seem a bit unworkable such as rejecting all terrestrial values such as marriage....

I understand why Lutheranism became so popular.

[Vaporous]

For one thing, it resembled the values the christian community had before it attained power. In the face of an increasingly unpopular and worldly papacy, the priest shunning Cathars had a lot of support.

Politics plays into it as well. The Cathars were strongest in the fiercely independent cities of northern Italy and the relatively defiant south eastern France. Opposing the papal state politically and militarily convinced many to oppose it spiritually, if only superficially. But quite a few took it to heart. When the tide came in to destroy the Cathars, some of the nobles and officials charged to lead the effort helped them instead, delaying the crusaders.

And remember that despite the Italian inquisition and the Albigensian Crusade, sects resembling Catharism kept springing up all around Europe. They were influential in Germany for a time, and helped sow the seeds of the Reformation.

The medieval church, having come into the possession of so much wealth and power, felt that it needed to keep it to maintain social and political order. Sects that opposed this "compromise with the world" were persecuted for a time after Catholicism rose to power. Eventually, a truce was unofficially struck with the anchorites and hermits who wanted to take up vows of poverty, and thats how you got monastic orders. The papacy came to see it as a pressure valve of sorts, and things rolled on fairly well.

Occasionally, the church's affairs would become so debauched that sentiment would turn against it, and among the people demanding reform would always be others who gave up on priests entirely.

[Kitsune]

One item I read was that the Catholic Church ran their entire service in Latin and had no translation of it. I believe the modern Catholic Church has changed that but when did that change?

[Vaporous]

Vatican II, mid twentieth century. I think Pope Benny is looking to ressurect parts of it.

[Kitsune]

So you had some priest running a service through much of history where the people did not understand what he was saying?

Do you have enough information that I could look up when that changed?

[Lord Revan]

why do you think there was such a drive to a) translate the bible b) to make the sermon be held in the language off the people.

basically during the middle ages the catholic church pretty much shoot itself in the foot due to lust of power.

[Master of Cards]

So you had some priest running a service through much of history where the people did not understand what he was saying?

Do you have enough information that I could look up when that changed?

Vatican II in 1960 before that there were no Roman Catholic Masses not in Latin or Greek( Eastern Roman Empire before East.west church split)

[Spoonist]

The Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican was between 1962-1965.

linky

It decided that liturgy could be in vernacular language instead of church latin.

Before then between 1570-1963 the mass and some of the sermons where in latin.
latin mass