WASHINGTON - A Hindu clergyman made history Thursday by offering the Senate's morning prayer, but only after police officers removed three shouting protesters from the visitors' gallery.
Rajan Zed, director of interfaith relations at a Hindu temple in Reno, Nev., gave the brief prayer that opens each day's Senate session. As he stood at the chamber's podium in a bright orange and burgundy robe, two women and a man began shouting "this is an abomination" and other complaints from the gallery.
Police officers quickly arrested them and charged them disrupting Congress, a misdemeanor. The male protester told an AP reporter, "we are Christians and patriots" before police handcuffed them and led them away.
For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."
Zed, the first Hindu to offer the Senate prayer, began: "We meditate on the transcendental glory of the Deity Supreme, who is inside the heart of the Earth, inside the life of the sky and inside the soul of the heaven. May He stimulate and illuminate our minds."
As the Senate prepared for another day of debate over the Iraq war, Zed closed with, "Peace, peace, peace be unto all."
Zed, who was born in India, was invited by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. Speaking in the chamber shortly after the prayer, Reid defended the choice and linked it to the war debate.
"If people have any misunderstanding about Indians and Hindus," Reid said, "all they have to do is think of Gandhi," a man "who gave his life for peace."
"I think it speaks well of our country that someone representing the faith of about a billion people comes here and can speak in communication with our heavenly Father regarding peace," said Reid, a Mormon and sharp critic of President Bush's Iraq policies.
Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said the protest "shows the intolerance of many religious right activists. They say they want more religion in the public square, but it's clear they mean only their religion."
Capitol police identified the protesters as Ante Nedlko Pavkovic, Katherine Lynn Pavkovic and Christan Renee Sugar. Their ages and hometowns were not available.
Yessir, allowing prayers in the Senate just brings out that Christian love !
Article wrote:For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."
Putting aside the somewhat dubious nature of the assertion that Christianity is indeed fully monotheistic, I am rather perplexed by the wording of this protest. Taken on its face, the message would seem to indicate that the American Family Association would find Islamic prayer services more acceptable than Hindu ones. Considering the recent (and not so recent) trend toward anti-Arab sentiment in fundamentalist circles, it seems odd to me that they wouldn’t simply say "non-Christian", or something similar. Perhaps they think that a flimsy pretense of limited inclusiveness will help their case in the public eye.
Article wrote:For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."
Putting aside the somewhat dubious nature of the assertion that Christianity is indeed fully monotheistic, I am rather perplexed by the wording of this protest. Taken on its face, the message would seem to indicate that the American Family Association would find Islamic prayer services more acceptable than Hindu ones. Considering the recent (and not so recent) trend toward anti-Arab sentiment in fundamentalist circles, it seems odd to me that they wouldn’t simply say "non-Christian", or something similar. Perhaps they think that a flimsy pretense of limited inclusiveness will help their case in the public eye.
They'd probably change it to "judeo-christian" as they need the jews for the second coming. They don't half cause some eye-rolling.
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But, but, I thought Christian Fundies were all for prayer in public areas.
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Instead of offering token "prayer hand outs" to other religions, why don't they just cut the prayer crap entirely? I vote for lawmakers, not clergymen. They're supposed to represent my interests.
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Article wrote:For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."
Putting aside the somewhat dubious nature of the assertion that Christianity is indeed fully monotheistic, I am rather perplexed by the wording of this protest. Taken on its face, the message would seem to indicate that the American Family Association would find Islamic prayer services more acceptable than Hindu ones. Considering the recent (and not so recent) trend toward anti-Arab sentiment in fundamentalist circles, it seems odd to me that they wouldn’t simply say "non-Christian", or something similar. Perhaps they think that a flimsy pretense of limited inclusiveness will help their case in the public eye.
Also, depending on flavor of Hinduism, some sects are arguably monotheistic (Shivaism and Vishnuism), at least insofar as they feel all the gods are just emanations of a particular god.
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Fundie reaction not withstanding, I'm not sure prayer of any type really has buisness in the Senate. Still, the seperation of church and state member there was probably right not to make that an issue, and instead focus on the clear retards who want only their religion to be dominate in the government.
"I think it speaks well of our country that someone representing the faith of about a billion people comes here and can speak in communication with our heavenly Father regarding peace," said Reid, a Mormon and sharp critic of President Bush's Iraq policies.
You know, I thought it was pretty clear he wasn't speaking to YOUR heavenly father. I don't recall the Hindu faith having anything about Jesus or the christian god in it. Kind of a brazen load of horse shit designed to appease both sides: the fundies by waving the Christian flag around (look, he's confused about the correct religion, but we give him a pass because he's clearly praying to God even though he doesn't know it) and Zed himself (Isn't it great we let you pray here. No, don't look at the fundies, move along, nothing to see here).
"I think it speaks well of our country that someone representing the faith of about a billion people comes here and can speak in communication with our heavenly Father regarding peace," said Reid, a Mormon and sharp critic of President Bush's Iraq policies.
You know, I thought it was pretty clear he wasn't speaking to YOUR heavenly father. I don't recall the Hindu faith having anything about Jesus or the christian god in it. Kind of a brazen load of horse shit designed to appease both sides: the fundies by waving the Christian flag around (look, he's confused about the correct religion, but we give him a pass because he's clearly praying to God even though he doesn't know it) and Zed himself (Isn't it great we let you pray here. No, don't look at the fundies, move along, nothing to see here).
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Article wrote:For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."
Putting aside the somewhat dubious nature of the assertion that Christianity is indeed fully monotheistic, I am rather perplexed by the wording of this protest. Taken on its face, the message would seem to indicate that the American Family Association would find Islamic prayer services more acceptable than Hindu ones. Considering the recent (and not so recent) trend toward anti-Arab sentiment in fundamentalist circles, it seems odd to me that they wouldn’t simply say "non-Christian", or something similar. Perhaps they think that a flimsy pretense of limited inclusiveness will help their case in the public eye.
Granted I don't hang out with Fundies, and don't work with them anymore, but in my admittedly (and thankfully) limited experience, yes, most of them would prefer a Muslim to a polytheist. I think the rationale is that while a Muslim is wrong, he at least acknowledges/prays to the one true, real God whereas all polytheists are worshipping demons. Or something.
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Durandal wrote:Instead of offering token "prayer hand outs" to other religions, why don't they just cut the prayer crap entirely? I vote for lawmakers, not clergymen. They're supposed to represent my interests.
They also represent the interests of the millions who elected them who go to church so if they give five minutes at the start of the day to religion that's hardly giving secularism short shift. Again this is a small but not really worthwhile battle to fight.
As to the protesters I shocked, shocked you hear, to find out that there are intolerant "christian" assholes in this country, its downright unbelievable.
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Lord Woodlouse wrote:I think some Hindus believe Jesus is a a Hindu avatar or some such, I can't remember what they believe he represents exactly.
They think he's a legit path to God, there's even a painting of him somewhere, it has the top of a mountain as representing God and all these hindu deities with paths coming out of them that go to the top, with Jesus on there with the rest of them.
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Article wrote:For several days, the Mississippi-based American Family Association has urged its members to object to the prayer because Zed would be "seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god."
Putting aside the somewhat dubious nature of the assertion that Christianity is indeed fully monotheistic, I am rather perplexed by the wording of this protest. Taken on its face, the message would seem to indicate that the American Family Association would find Islamic prayer services more acceptable than Hindu ones. Considering the recent (and not so recent) trend toward anti-Arab sentiment in fundamentalist circles, it seems odd to me that they wouldn’t simply say "non-Christian", or something similar. Perhaps they think that a flimsy pretense of limited inclusiveness will help their case in the public eye.
It's a little ponderous a phrasing for something that would be simpler to put as "non-Christian", but in spite of their tendency to lurk in crowds and throw their bomb-laden bodies onto their soldiers' vehicles, I suspect that in some capacity fundies respect their opponent's religion as being comparably close to their own and, dammit, at least it's a religion unlike those untrustworthy atheists.
Akhlut wrote:Also, depending on flavor of Hinduism, some sects are arguably monotheistic (Shivaism and Vishnuism), at least insofar as they feel all the gods are just emanations of a particular god.
Isn't it less monotheism and more a woo-woo meta-force, a la Brahman?
Zixinus wrote:The only thing I'm surprised about this, is that two of the loud-mouths were women. Didn't Christianity had a thing againts women?
For all the fundy insistance on taking the bible literally, its amazing how selective they are about it, sometimes coming straight out and admitting that they pick and choose but damnit, everyone had better follow the verses they like best!
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Lord Woodlouse wrote:I think some Hindus believe Jesus is a a Hindu avatar or some such, I can't remember what they believe he represents exactly.
They think he's a legit path to God, there's even a painting of him somewhere, it has the top of a mountain as representing God and all these hindu deities with paths coming out of them that go to the top, with Jesus on there with the rest of them.
Aye, to be fair I think I read this on the box for the Jesus Christ action figure I got for Zaia...
I think another view of the Hindu faith believes that every god as simply another facet of the Mahadeva, even man is a facet. So worshiping another god is just worship of the mahadeva viewed from a different angle. Of course, I could also be wrong.
I've committed the greatest sin, worse than anything done here today. I sold half my soul to the devil. -Ivan Isaac, the Half Souled Knight
And so the "allow religion into politics" mantra of the right is revealed as the steaming pile of bullcrap it is.
Darth Servo wrote:For all the fundy insistance on taking the bible literally, its amazing how selective they are about it, sometimes coming straight out and admitting that they pick and choose but damnit, everyone had better follow the verses they like best!
I always thought "Thou Shalt Not Kill" was pretty cool. Can't use the rest of it. I guess we can reinterpret all of the other stuff to impotence.
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