Are slow Y-wings a brain bug?

[Stark]

The poor EU didn't know that when they invented their pile of bullshit - remember, the Z-95 was the big Clone Wars fighter, and it SUCKS. Now that we have huge fleets of Clone Wars fighters, we need to rationalise things like the Z-95 as budget light fighters.

[Imperial Overlord]

The poor EU didn't know that when they invented their pile of bullshit - remember, the Z-95 was the big Clone Wars fighter, and it SUCKS. Now that we have huge fleets of Clone Wars fighters, we need to rationalise things like the Z-95 as budget light fighters.

Actually, it only sucks in the game EU bits and the subsequent EU bullshit derived from it.. When introduced in "Han Solo at Stars End" it was good, (not great) tough little ship.

[PainRack]

The poor EU didn't know that when they invented their pile of bullshit - remember, the Z-95 was the big Clone Wars fighter, and it SUCKS. Now that we have huge fleets of Clone Wars fighters, we need to rationalise things like the Z-95 as budget light fighters.

Furthermore, didn't TPM retcon it even further, to make it such that the Z-95 was the pre Clone War naval fighter.

[Isolder74]

The poor EU didn't know that when they invented their pile of bullshit - remember, the Z-95 was the big Clone Wars fighter, and it SUCKS. Now that we have huge fleets of Clone Wars fighters, we need to rationalise things like the Z-95 as budget light fighters.

Furthermore, didn't TPM retcon it even further, to make it such that the Z-95 was the pre Clone War naval fighter.

In the Eu it WAS a pre Clone Wars fighter.

[AirshipFanboy]

The Y-Wing's engine pods aren't super-huge. They just look huge because they have those four long tails behind them.

[Darwin]

The Y-Wing's engine pods aren't super-huge. They just look huge because they have those four long tails behind them.

Wow, now that's a fuckin' revelation. Good thing you're around!

Even if you count the front half of each of the Y wing's engines as taken up by its sensor suite, you've still got bigger thrust-cans than anything this side of a ARC-170.

[AirshipFanboy]

The Y-Wing's engine pods aren't super-huge. They just look huge because they have those four long tails behind them.

Wow, now that's a fuckin' revelation. Good thing you're around!

Even if you count the front half of each of the Y wing's engines as taken up by its sensor suite, you've still got bigger thrust-cans than anything this side of a ARC-170.

I'll agree that they're bigger than average, but they aren't dramatically enormous, given the Y-wing's size.

The Y-Wing devotes a little higher percentage of its volume to engines than the N-1, and certainly more than an X-Wing. But along with the ARC-170, the Utapaun starfighter and Grievous' ship look like they spend more volume on engine/reactors than the Y-wing. The same could be said of the B-Wing, if we assume those funny intake-looking things are engine components.

I don't think engine size alone is a reliable predictor of engine power in Star Wars ships anyway. The V-Wing has much smaller engines but accelerates nearly twice as fast as the ARC-170. And the super-fast A-Wing doesn't spend any higher percentage of its volume on engines than the ARC-170 does.

Some engines may be bulky and less efficient (but perhaps cheaper or more robust), whereas others are lighter and offer better performance, perhaps with greater fragility or expense.

[Lord Revan]

the A-wing is little more then a pair on engines with a chair and some gun attached to it.

the V-wing was like the A-wing IIRC it was built for speed and lacked many systems larger craft have (aka they sacficed combat capabilies for better acceleration).

so size alone is not a good indications, but if you got 2 fighters that fill more or less the same combat role and have also more or less the same armament (the X-wing and the Y-wing), it's not totally unreasonble to assume that one with larger engines is at least as "fast" as the the other one (which is more or less the case in the movies with X- and Y-Wing).

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Ah, civilisation.
I spent the last three days- of my own free will, and it was fun- in a field where the most sophisticated electric device to hand was a pocket torch. I wasn't dodging, just elsewhere.

Initially I'm not sure about selling off ex- Republic/early Imperial fighters; it seems to be a massive compromise of security.
Then again, the basic technology is the same, what's to compromise? Navigation, IFF codes, amended targeting routines- the computer systems would probably get a wholesale purge and reset to factory standard, so that could work.

I'm not sure about dirt cheap, though; hard-worked examples, maybe, but late-production fighters, and those from the reserves- if they exist- with relatively few hours on the airframe and engines, why wouldn't the Imperial procurement arms try to get at least a competitive price?
Corruption and individual incompetence are always possibilities, but that would be a case by case basis.

Given that the technology is the same, the only develomental differences I can see are those caused by operational analysis. Realising what works and what doesn't, spending money and effort where it's needed- optimisation could produce a 'superior' craft from the same technical base, I think.

Would the Imperial Starfleet even worry about an enemy, real or potential, achieving technological parity or supremacy? I doubt it, because they will always have numerical superiority- more than enough force to bring to bear to squash all but the most utterly ridiculous enemies. They might not want to sell off a currently operational craft, but yes, the older ones it probably is better to sell rather than scrap.

So although I have to say I don't like the idea, at the moment I can't come up with a decent counterargument to selling off old ARC-170s. They would be competing with new build third party craft, other Clone War era fighters, prewar Republic relics, and possibly even captured Separatist kit in the free market.

Including the Z-95, because it looks as if that one went full circle and the EU and the movies converged on the same answer- that in the runup to the Clone Wars, the -95 was the Republic's main space superiority and light attack fighter (in the later Concussion-equipped marks). It was overtaken by the newer Actis, Nimbus, ARC-170 based fleet, and as this happened many were sold off to planetary defence forces.
Is that a satisfactory explanation, or is it too tidy?

X versus Y, The X-wing has the design advantages of 10-15 years of additional small wars to draw lessons from, and that much additional analysis of the events of the Clone Wars. I'm not sure if I'm providing an argument or just gilding the brainbug here, by suggesting the X-wing benefited from that.

[AirshipFanboy]

the V-wing was like the A-wing IIRC it was built for speed and lacked many systems larger craft have (aka they sacficed combat capabilies for better acceleration).

Maybe, but going from its cutaway in the ICS, the V-Wing still doesn't devote much space to engines.

so size alone is not a good indications, but if you got 2 fighters that fill more or less the same combat role and have also more or less the same armament (the X-wing and the Y-wing), it's not totally unreasonble to assume that one with larger engines is at least as "fast" as the the other one (which is more or less the case in the movies with X- and Y-Wing).

Oh, I agree. I'm not claiming that the Y-wing is slower than the X-Wing, the filming chart suggests they're about the same speed, as does the older RPG stuff I'm familiar with. I was just disputing how huge its engine pods were, and how important their size is.

And yeah, other things being equal, big engines would suggest high speed. However, with Star Wars weird examples like the fast V-Wing's small engines and the lumbering ARC-170s huge engines, I would only use engine size to estimate of acceleration if other evidence wasn't available.

[Lord Revan]

with Star Wars weird examples like the fast V-Wing's small engines and the lumbering ARC-170s huge engines

well those examples aren't so odd once take those other things into consideration (like V-Wings having no hyperdrive(apart from possibly some special version(s))), mass is slow remember and momentum must be preserved, so it follows that craft with more mass (from things like hyperdrive and ordanance) must use more power to gain the same acceleration (assuming that's even possible)

[chitoryu12]

I've figured the Y-Wings to be slow, but only in relation to an interceptor. Basically, when paired up with, say, a TIE Interceptor, it's slow, but when against, perhaps, an X-Wing or another general fighter craft, it's pretty speedy. I don't get the low maneuverability either, considering that the Y-Wings at Yavin were able to pull into the trench while simultaneously dodging laser fire and not bumping into the walls or turrets.

[AirshipFanboy]

with Star Wars weird examples like the fast V-Wing's small engines and the lumbering ARC-170s huge engines

well those examples aren't so odd once take those other things into consideration (like V-Wings having no hyperdrive(apart from possibly some special version(s))), mass is slow remember and momentum must be preserved, so it follows that craft with more mass (from things like hyperdrive and ordanance) must use more power to gain the same acceleration (assuming that's even possible)

Touche. Assuming the hyperdrive and ordinance require a huge amount of mass for their volume, the goofily small engines with high acceleration does seem more logical. And, in the case of the hyperdrive, bigger ships had to use big, dense fuel silos to limp across hyperspace.

Of course, then we'd expect the X-Wings to be pretty sluggish, as it has a hyperdrive, proton torpedoes, and relatively smallish engines...