Cellulose Ethenol, 16 units of energy for every unit into it

[Dominus Atheos]

Ecogeek

The state of Georgia just granted Range Fuels a permit to create the first cellulosic ethanol plant in America. HECK YES! This is very exciting...why?

Quick Run Down!
Cellulosic ethanol is ethanol that comes from cellulose instead of sugar. This is good because most plants don't have a lot of sugar, but all plants have lots of cellulose. So, instead of using food crops, (like corn and sugar cane which have lots of sugar) to create fuel, we can use any crops, like mown grass clippings, fallen tree limbs or corn stalks (instead of corn ears) to create ethanol.

Unfortunately, it's also much more difficult to make ethanol from cellulose. But in the last five years an intense amount of research and capital has been thrown at this problem, and now we're seeing results.

Cellulosic ethanol can contain up to 16 times more energy than is required to create it! If that doesn't sound ridiculously impressive, consider that gasoline contains only 5 times more energy than was required to create it and corn ethanol is totally lame, containing only 1.3 times the energy required to create it.

So yes, this is very exciting. Unfortunately, it's still more expensive than sugar ethanol (and gasoline) to create. This is generally because scientists have focused on expensive enzymatic processes that create ethanol at very low concentrations. Range biofuels uses a more straightforward thermo-chemical process to gasify the cellulose and then convert it to ethanol.

Range fuels will be creating its ethanol from wood chips, which contain a very large amount of energy (think fire.) The plant, which will be completed in 2008, will create over 100 million gallons of ethanol per year.

Think of it as a pilot project. If we can create carbon-neutral fuel from waste economically in 2008, then we're on a good path to dodge peak oil completely. We need to move fast for it to happen. But this is a sign that we might be ready for the challenge.

[Elaro]

So essentially, they use the plant instead of the fruit? Neat.

[Darth Wong]

I assume that they mean it produces 16 times the energy that's required to process it. Actually producing 16 times the total energy it takes to create it would be a violation of thermodynamics.

[Starglider]

I assume that they mean it produces 16 times the energy that's required to process it. Actually producing 16 times the total energy it takes to create it would be a violation of thermodynamics.

I'm assuming that by 'consider that gasoline contains only 5 times more energy than was required to create it' the writer means 'gasoline takes 20% of its own energy content to pump out of the ground and refine' not 'we sacrifice coal to the sky god and lo, five times the BTUs rains from the heavens in the form of gasoline'. Of course that still makes them a muppet, just not in the 'every time a baby is born the earth gets a little heavier' category.

[Singular Intellect]

I find it quite reassuring that we're not sitting on our asses and pretending peak oil ain't happening. I'm crossing my fingers on this one.

[Gil Hamilton]

It would be nice. Raw cellulose is easy to mass produce. Plant some kudzu plants in a Southern climate. You'll spend more time keeping it from taking over than actually keeping it alive, and it's actually decent for the soil, since it improves the quality of topsoil from subsoil and actually nitrogen fixes it. Plus, you can eat the leaves like spinach and farm animals love the stuff too.

Massive kudzu cultivation would be a great idea, even if this doesn't pan out, of course.

[Molyneux]

Something to hope for...given this along with the algae farming that quite a few companies are looking into, and it starts to look like we might dodge the peak-oil bullet.

[Chris OFarrell]

Something to hope for...given this along with the algae farming that quite a few companies are looking into, and it starts to look like we might dodge the peak-oil bullet.

I wouldn't say that. More like we might just get an interceptor vest on in time so while the bullet impact knocks us down and sends the air out of our lungs, it doesn't explode our chest...

[SirNitram]

If this pans out, the blows from PO and soil quality will be nicely softened(At least if Kudzu is mass-produced on those big corp farms). There's still everything else that can go wrong, but it's something. And something is better than most of the estimates that have people scared.

[Darwin]

The potential for 16:1 processing return on energy investment is certainly enticing, even if it's only a theoretical limit, 10:1 will still be excellent.

I'm worried that they don't say how much Etanol that can produce per-acre with this technique. How much plant waste cellulose must be processed for a gallon of Ethanol fuel? Will we have enough room to make enough to meet demand? Are there better ways to convert solar energy into power?

It's certainly interesting, and I hope they start producing useful results! It's just a little too vague to get excited about, yet.

[Gil Hamilton]

Kudzu is a good idea to mass produce in a controlled way, even if we can't make use of cellulose ethanol. The stuff is dead useful, but it's so prolific that most people consider it an invasive pest.

It would be one of the great ironies if one of the most useful materials of the 21st century was one of the biggest weeds of the 20th.

[Broomstick]

It would be nice. Raw cellulose is easy to mass produce. Plant some kudzu plants in a Southern climate.

Didn't someone already do that?

Massive kudzu cultivation would be a great idea, even if this doesn't pan out, of course.

Have you been to the Southern States lately? There's a reason they call kudzu "the plant that ate the South". Please! No more!

Now, if we could use purple loosestrife, too (the northern equivalent of kudzu, except that even goats apparently aren't fond it for eating) we'd have perpetrually renewable energy....

[Coyote]

It would be one of the great ironies if one of the most useful materials of the 21st century was one of the biggest weeds of the 20th.

Like when the common cold turned out to be our best defense against the damn Martians!

Seriously--

I hate to pee in everyone's Cheerios, but who has the backing of powerful corporate lobbyist interests and political megadollars? The agribusiness people who brought us protectionist tariffs, or... the kudzu lobby?

Corn has that "wholesome, down-home Midwest all-American farmer" image and big agribusiness is as all-pervasive as the military contractors, just at a lower tax bracket. They'll bury this under a mountain of taxpayer-subsidized corn, and no, I'm not happy to bring this up.

[Gil Hamilton]

Didn't someone already do that?

Yes, in the twenties, for erosion control. It worked very very well. In this case, we plant more, but in a controlled way.

Have you been to the Southern States lately? There's a reason they call kudzu "the plant that ate the South". Please! No more!

Now, if we could use purple loosestrife, too (the northern equivalent of kudzu, except that even goats apparently aren't fond it for eating) we'd have perpetrually renewable energy....

I know the South is covered in it, but I'd like to someday have kudzu being the number one crop due to its insane myriad of potential uses. Particularly if cellulose ethanol becomes practical.

[Patrick Degan]

Agribusiness may have a powerful lobby, but if the major oil companies branch into this as their next source of profit and survivability, their voice is going to shout louder.

[Natorgator]

Kudzu is a good idea to mass produce in a controlled way, even if we can't make use of cellulose ethanol. The stuff is dead useful, but it's so prolific that most people consider it an invasive pest.

It would be one of the great ironies if one of the most useful materials of the 21st century was one of the biggest weeds of the 20th.

Hell, just come to Georgia. The stuff is already everywhere.

[Erik von Nein]

It's funny, because when this whole ethanol-from-corn thing started getting to be a bigger deal in America I wondered why we couldn't just cut down those huge kudzu grooves in the south and convert that into ehtanol. Hopefully this will pan out.

I've always assumed that the oil companies will eventually start dumping huge amounts of money into projects like this or conventional ethanol production (despite how dumb it is) because they're companies that still want to exist. They know damn well that oil's going bye-bye and they're going to be looking at their next big meal ticket. Something like this would certainly fit that bill. Well, hopefully.

Sure, peak oil's going to ruin our day something fierce, but if this pans out well it'll mean that, at the very least, mechanized farming can still continue, meaning that massive amounts of the population won't have to starve. If anything this could hopefully be used to run public transportation (between cities, mostly, since electric vehicles would be more practical in-city) and, if it's possible, diesel-like locomotives.

[PeZook]

Sure, peak oil's going to ruin our day something fierce, but if this pans out well it'll mean that, at the very least, mechanized farming can still continue, meaning that massive amounts of the population won't have to starve. If anything this could hopefully be used to run public transportation (between cities, mostly, since electric vehicles would be more practical in-city) and, if it's possible, diesel-like locomotives.

It's awesome precisely because of this concern. You can have an industrial civilization work just fine without a single automobile, as long as mechanized farm equipment and railways keep running. And let's face it: giving up individual vehicles is a small price to pay for the continuation of your eating priviledges. Though America could probably feed itself fine even if half their mechanized farm equipment suddendly evaporated - they have obscene amounts of arable land. It would require a lot of the population redistributed to the countryside, though.

[Shrykull]

I know biodiesel fuels will be plentiful but what about thier pollution

You could create hydrogen fuel, with no pollution if you were using a solar, nuclear or hydroelectric plant, and it gives no pollution out the exhaust pipe of a car, just water vapor.

[Edi]

Now, if we could use purple loosestrife, too (the northern equivalent of kudzu, except that even goats apparently aren't fond it for eating) we'd have perpetrually renewable energy....

Right up until soil depletion renders the ground barren, which is what will happen sooner or later. The biomass for the grass has to come from somewhere and if it's harvested and not replaced, it will run out just like oil will. Which means that somehow all those nutrients have to be replaced by some sort of fertilizers or trucking in pigshit or whatnot to keep the cycles going.

[PeZook]

Now, if we could use purple loosestrife, too (the northern equivalent of kudzu, except that even goats apparently aren't fond it for eating) we'd have perpetrually renewable energy....

Right up until soil depletion renders the ground barren, which is what will happen sooner or later. The biomass for the grass has to come from somewhere and if it's harvested and not replaced, it will run out just like oil will. Which means that somehow all those nutrients have to be replaced by some sort of fertilizers or trucking in pigshit or whatnot to keep the cycles going.

Well, it's still renewable in the sense that making cellulose ethanol does not take 60 million years for a single production cycle. For a sensible nation, it should still be just a stopgap on the way to nuclear and, later, fusion power grids.

[AMX]

Right up until soil depletion renders the ground barren, which is what will happen sooner or later. The biomass for the grass has to come from somewhere and if it's harvested and not replaced, it will run out just like oil will. Which means that somehow all those nutrients have to be replaced by some sort of fertilizers or trucking in pigshit or whatnot to keep the cycles going.

Actually, you can just use what's left after EtOH production - you're only removing CHO, after all.

[Edi]

Now, if we could use purple loosestrife, too (the northern equivalent of kudzu, except that even goats apparently aren't fond it for eating) we'd have perpetrually renewable energy....

Right up until soil depletion renders the ground barren, which is what will happen sooner or later. The biomass for the grass has to come from somewhere and if it's harvested and not replaced, it will run out just like oil will. Which means that somehow all those nutrients have to be replaced by some sort of fertilizers or trucking in pigshit or whatnot to keep the cycles going.

Well, it's still renewable in the sense that making cellulose ethanol does not take 60 million years for a single production cycle. For a sensible nation, it should still be just a stopgap on the way to nuclear and, later, fusion power grids.

Yeah, renewable, but it still requires careful husbanding since there is no such thing as free energy and soil restoration is not something easily done if it's first wrecked through carelessness.

[PeZook]

Yeah, renewable, but it still requires careful husbanding since there is no such thing as free energy and soil restoration is not something easily done if it's first wrecked through carelessness.

Well, obviously, a whole new agricultural science field will have to develop to switch towards a biomas-fuelled civilization. Depending on the area farmed/energy gained ratio, we still may not be able to ever get enough to actually maintain the idiotically wasteful lifestyle we enjoy today with ethanol alone.

Of course, I wonder if the industrialized world will go the route of "carefully manage existing farmland so that we get the most out of the soil" or the alternative of "strip-farm all our soil, and then invade foreign countries for their land untill there's nothing left so that we can keep driving SUVs for five more years"

[Edi]

The current lifestyle will start being rolled back, but how quickly, that remains to be seen yet. I don't claim accurate enough predictive capabilities for that. When it comes down to the crunch, essential infrastructure will get first dibs and the rest will be up for the open market.

The mere idea that the current level of profligate waste can be sustained via biomass-derived ethanol is absurd.