Friend tries to convince me to homeschool

[Cairber]

I just had to share this because it gave me a good chuckle. SO I got into a conversation the other day at gymboree with another mom who homeschools her kids.I talked about the reasons that we are not considering homeschooling to her, which, amongst other things, included a reference to homeschooling groups being very elitist and far too conservative for our tastes. I also talked about lack of diversity.

So she says she wants me to take a look at this magazine and read about homeschooling. She gave me the mag for free, so I took it and read it. It is called "Practical Homeschooling." Now, keep in mind that she meant this magazine to provide evidence that homeschooling isn't elitist, conservative, or lacking in diversity.

On page 6, it has a review of the book The Marketing of Evil and states "Americans have come to tolerate, embrace and even champion many things that would have horrified their parents- from easy divorce and unrestricted abortion-on-demand to extreme body piercing and teaching homosexuality to grade-schoolers." It goes to explain how this is taking down society and we have all been tricked by "pseudo-experts" into believing these things are good.

On page 11, there is a celebration of the opening of the creation museum.

On page 13 there is a critique of "Jihad in the Schools" (the magazine claims that children are being forced to draw pictures and recite lines from the Qur'an in school and that this is brain washing them.)


Oh, I can't wait to see her again. I can't believe she gave me this magazine to try and convince me of the non-conservative, diverse, free thinking side of homeschooling

[Duckie]

The only thing that I can immediately think of when reading this is "The Quran has pictures"?

[FSTargetDrone]

On page 6, it has a review of the book The Marketing of Evil and states "Americans have come to tolerate, embrace and even champion many things that would have horrified their parents- from easy divorce and unrestricted abortion-on-demand to extreme body piercing and teaching homosexuality to grade-schoolers."

"Scienticians believe that extreme body piercing leads to looseness, lewdness and general up-to-no-goodness. They also point out that such piercings can set off metal detectors at airports or other high-security zones, potentially distracting the well-trained and constantly alert detector technicians and allowing a potential terr-rist to slip through unnoticed."

It's in Revelations, people!

Ah, home schooling, where the pupil can get all the benefits of learning from someone who surely has taken the same courses preparing him or her for a career of teaching that the certified teachers take! Plus, there's none of all that interaction with the other unruly and possibly unchristian students.

[Phillip Hone]

I'm not a parent, so I'm not sure I'm really in a position to say anything here, and I'm only speaking from my personal experience being home schooled vs going to public high school for 9th grade. Frankly, I would not recommend. It's really not a healthy social environment. You can still have some interaction with your peers, but it's not the same thing as public school. Home school groups tend to be around 20 kids, my high school has over 1000.

Education wise, homeschooling isn't quite so bad as long as you have a tutor or something, but it still wasn't as good as regular school.

Statistics in favor of home schooling are misleading because only the smart kids bother taking any exams in the first place.

[Darth Wong]

I'd be willing to bet that she does not see those things as indicative of a conservative or intolerant mindset. That's precisely the problem with the kind of cloistered community people like that prefer: it is so uniform that they honestly lose all grasp of how large the political spectrum is outside. They honestly think that the political spectrum runs between what we would call "far right" and "even farther right".

It reminds me of people who say that the American media is balanced between FOXNews on the right and CNN on the left. They honestly have no clue that for most of the world, CNN is considered a zionist right-wing network.

[Zixinus]

It reminds me of people who say that the American media is balanced between FOXNews on the right and CNN on the left. They honestly have no clue that for most of the world, CNN is considered a zionist right-wing network.

CNN is right-wing? How so?

[Darth Wong]

It reminds me of people who say that the American media is balanced between FOXNews on the right and CNN on the left. They honestly have no clue that for most of the world, CNN is considered a zionist right-wing network.

CNN is right-wing? How so?

Have you ever watched it? Glenn Beck and Nancy Grace alone are so right-wing that the network is in danger of falling off the edge. The only thing in its way is FOXNews.

Perhaps it isn't viewed that way by the standards of eastern Europe. After all, President Bush got crowds of cheering fans when he last went there.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm not a parent, so I'm not sure I'm really in a position to say anything here, and I'm only speaking from my personal experience being home schooled vs going to public high school for 9th grade. Frankly, I would not recommend. It's really not a healthy social environment. You can still have some interaction with your peers, but it's not the same thing as public school. Home school groups tend to be around 20 kids, my high school has over 1000.

Home schooled groups? What is that, a bunch of home schoolers who meet at someone's house or someplace? I've always associated home schooling with parents teaching their individual child or children at their own home. Is this group thing some sort of newer practice?

[Darth Wong]

I'm not a parent, so I'm not sure I'm really in a position to say anything here, and I'm only speaking from my personal experience being home schooled vs going to public high school for 9th grade. Frankly, I would not recommend. It's really not a healthy social environment. You can still have some interaction with your peers, but it's not the same thing as public school. Home school groups tend to be around 20 kids, my high school has over 1000.

Home schooled groups? What is that, a bunch of home schoolers who meet at someone's house or someplace? I've always associated home schooling with parents teaching their individual child or children at their own home. Is this group thing some sort of newer practice?

Homeschoolers typically meet in groups periodically for fields trips and to socialize, not every day. The practice isn't totally insane, and can be justified, particularly if one is well-educated oneself (hence capable of teaching) and the local schools are just not up to snuff. I know a couple of people who homeschool for the right reasons, and it seems to be working out fine. Unfortunately, I've also known people who homeschooled for the wrong reasons (ie- to keep them away from the big bad world), and that works out about as well as you'd expect.

One of the problems with the homeschooling social group is the uniformity of it. It takes away the element of involuntary association that you get from regular public school (and for that matter, life in a city). Put more simply, there are times when it's good for your child to meet people from social groups that you would not normally associate with. It expands his horizons, sharpens his mind, etc. This NEVER happens in homeschool, but it does happen in public school.

[Surlethe]

Homeschoolers typically meet in groups periodically for fields trips and to socialize, not every day. The practice isn't totally insane, and can be justified, particularly if one is well-educated oneself (hence capable of teaching) and the local schools are just not up to snuff. I know a couple of people who homeschool for the right reasons, and it seems to be working out fine. Unfortunately, I've also known people who homeschooled for the wrong reasons (ie- to keep them away from the big bad world), and that works out about as well as you'd expect.

My girlfriend was homeschooled down in the Evansville area, and she described a spectrum of homeschoolers based on their motive for homeschooling. On one end were the people who did it for academics because the US public school system is shit and they either didn't want to or couldn't afford a private school, and on the other end were the people who did it for religious reasons. The people who do it for academics tend to produce very bright scholars, as I understand; unfortunately, the scale is weighted toward the religious end, and even the academic ones tend to be conservative, even by US standards.

EDIT: Dammit, man, don't edit your post while I'm responding to you!

One of the problems with the homeschooling social group is the uniformity of it. It takes away the element of involuntary association that you get from regular public school (and for that matter, life in a city). Put more simply, there are times when it's good for your child to meet people from social groups that you would not normally associate with. It expands his horizons, sharpens his mind, etc. This NEVER happens in homeschool, but it does happen in public school.

This is also true; I could offer anecdote after anecdote of homeschoolers unprepared for college. For example, one homeschooler in a class with me last year had never heard any cursing before (!). In the homeschooling community down in Evansville, at least, there's talk about how people go to college and become "feminist" and "liberal" (those are dirty words like 'fuck' and 'shit').

Children who do go to college are generally from the academic half of the community, and they're encouraged to actively reject anything they perceive as liberal. Of those from the religious half, only guys go to college. Girls stay at home, help with the kids (the parents are like rabbits, I'm telling you), and wait for the perfect guy (i.e., homeschooled, fundamentalist) to come along. I would guess that arranged marriages are not uncommon.

[K. A. Pital]

Perhaps it isn't viewed that way by the standards of eastern Europe. After all, President Bush got crowds of cheering fans when he last went there.

CNN is considered right-wing and full of American socks in Russia and other former Republics which I've been to. And to a lesser extent, so is BBC. But BBC's Euro-centrism has often excused it's asslicking coverage on early Iraq war (you must have seen the reaction in Russia to early BBC reports like "Bush is making history" and "Glorious victory in Iraq", people just totally ridiculed that).

FOX NEWS in Russia/Former USSR is available only on special subscription for rich citizens, but even they don't watch it. It's totally unpopular and no one knows what it is.

Crowds of cheering fans always gather for international guests since East European authorities find groups of cheerleaders for every visitor. Street acts of protest against the visit of such people are often ignored by the media.

[Phillip Hone]

Homeschoolers typically meet in groups periodically for fields trips and to socialize, not every day. The practice isn't totally insane, and can be justified, particularly if one is well-educated oneself (hence capable of teaching) and the local schools are just not up to snuff. I know a couple of people who homeschool for the right reasons, and it seems to be working out fine.

To be fair, some people I know who are(were) home schooled are actually doing fairly well now, one who is going into 9th grade actually took the AP biology test at the high school and passed it. It's not like he's a genius or anything, but he's doing OK at least. Home schoolers do have an advantage for things like this though, because they can focus on one subject.

[FSTargetDrone]

One of the problems with the homeschooling social group is the uniformity of it. It takes away the element of involuntary association that you get from regular public school (and for that matter, life in a city). Put more simply, there are times when it's good for your child to meet people from social groups that you would not normally associate with. It expands his horizons, sharpens his mind, etc. This NEVER happens in homeschool, but it does happen in public school.

That is my biggest objection to homeschooling, the lack of socialization and interacting with people or situations you might not otherwise. If these kids do get together in groups from time to time, I guess that's better than not getting together at all. And as long as the parents are suitably prepared to teach the children, I suppose I have even less objection to it.

[Cairber]

While I admit that homeschooling provide excellent one on one attention and that, in some areas, it may be the best alternative for a family; these things aside, I don't like the idea. In my experience with homeschool groups, they are incredibly elitist; for example, there is a homeschooling group linked with our LLL group and last month they were talking about how upset they were that the "schoolers" were out and taking up all the playgrounds, museums, and space at the library.

There is a big tendency to purposefully NOT teach diversity and tolerance; and while some families who homeschool strive to incorporate these things in their homeschools, most don't. And we can't control who gets to homeschool and who doesn't.

Religious homeschooling is...well, a rant about this would be preaching the choir here. Needless to say, it is the number one reason to homeschool in this country in particular and that's not something this society needs at the moment.

[Teebs]

I've had personal experience of homeschooling between the ages of 8 and 11. I loved it and I don't think it hurt me academically speaking. There was a pretty organised group in the city I lived in and we'd get together weekly for meetings and socialising and also have smaller groups getting together to hire tutors for particular subjects that the parents couldn't handle e.g. language classes.

Having friends wasn't a problem because of the number of people doing it and also keeping friends from my old school. However, the point about benefitting from being forced to socialise with people I might not choose to otherwise and in larger groups is valid and would probably have benefitted me.

In terms of diversity, the people doing it were very diverse. I don't think there were any who were doing it for religious reasons and they ranged quite widely in socio-economic status. Politically speaking I couldn't say how diverse it was due to my age at the time, however my parents are certainly not conservatives. One thing that I did notice though was that almost every family was 'alternative' in some way, in some cases disturbingly so. For example, one mother refused to eat or give her children cooked food...

My parents didn't do it for any weird ideological reasons, just because they thought they could do a better job than the school system there so I suppose I didn't get the downsides of very weird parents educating me. Academically speaking it can't have hurt as I'm now studying at Oxford.

The reasons my parents stopped the homeschooling were that my brother refused to do any work and when we moved to Norwich there was no support network or group in place and so no one my age to make friends with.

Of course all this is from a non-American perspective, religious homeschooling doesn't seem to exist in the UK.

[PeZook]

Perhaps it isn't viewed that way by the standards of eastern Europe. After all, President Bush got crowds of cheering fans when he last went there.

Crowds of cheering fans?

What?

I don't know about other countries, in here he got off the plane (the airport was cleared of spectators beforehand), said hello to Big Ducky (our president ), then got on a helicopter, flew to the meeting spot, then flew back and got out.

The only crowds were protesters camped out by the presidential retreat where his meeting with our president was to take place.

In short, no. Few people if any love Bush much, and american media are almost universally distrusted.

[Starglider]

I don't know much about homeschooling (I've just read a few articles, mostly on the Internet - it's very uncommon here in the UK). However, I would think it's much easier to justify for younger ages than older ones; the expertise level needed to teach is lower, the children are less independent anyway and the need for diversity of views isn't as prevalent at grade school level compared to high-school. 5 to 8 sounds reasonable to me, 8 to 11 sounds justifiable if enough effort is put into it, 11 to 14 sounds like a bad idea and 14 to 18 is just stupid. Do the other posters here have a suggested age cut off?

[chitoryu12]

I'm biased against homeschooling due to my friend. Aside from school, he wasn't allowed to leave the house until he was six and barred from watching any television except for kid's shows and religious channels (and he's atheist, but his mom would probably whip him for not attending). He not only looks like he's ten despite being almost fifteen, but he acts like it. Whiny, a compulsive liar who likes to pretend things he did in the past didn't exist, believes his own bullshit (spending five minutes thinking petroleum was plutonium, for one), and has an inability to realize that he's being annoying. Even when we tell him to stop talking, he ignores us and continues on with the topic even when it's obvious nobody wants to listen. He also likes to act like an idiot just to get me angry, which is a really bad idea because oftentimes even my own mother hits him for some of the really bad things he's done (like telling someone who hates me that I played Michael Jackson in Drama class just to see how much he makes fun of me).

[Teebs]

I don't know much about homeschooling (I've just read a few articles, mostly on the Internet - it's very uncommon here in the UK). However, I would think it's much easier to justify for younger ages than older ones; the expertise level needed to teach is lower, the children are less independent anyway and the need for diversity of views isn't as prevalent at grade school level compared to high-school. 5 to 8 sounds reasonable to me, 8 to 11 sounds justifiable if enough effort is put into it, 11 to 14 sounds like a bad idea and 14 to 18 is just stupid. Do the other posters here have a suggested age cut off?

That sounds reasonable to me.

[chitoryu12]

The only things that should be taught at home, really, are basic common sense. Leave algebra and the periodic table to professional teachers, but things like driving, basic computer and television use, and manners (basically what's needed to properly act in life) should be taught by the parents as early as the kid can understand it. Again with my friend, he wasn't taught those things until just recently, and he's a mess.

By the way, did you see the interview with the kid who won that spelling bee last month? He was homeschooled and he could barely do the interview because he couldn't understand much beyond spelling big words that are probably never going to be used in real life.

[Magus]

I was home schooled until 7th grade. For the most part, it matters how well educated the parent is, and how much effort they put into the lessons. I can say from personal experience:

The advantages I gained from homeschooling:

1) I was able to work at my own pace - I could finish a day's worth of curriculum in 3-4 hours, then spend the rest of the day on hobbies, learning additional subjects such as computers or martial arts, or just having fun. The fact that harder work got me more time off was a major incentive to stay focused and work hard.

2) One-on-one attention - Through the fourth grade, I was taught the information by my mother, a computer programmer and otherwise rather intelligent woman. I hold no doubts that this was a superior grade-school education than most of my peers received in traditional environments.

3) Independence - In the fifth and sixth grades, I was taking the books and manual and teaching myself for about four hours a day. My learning was completely my own responsibility, which I feel is a good attitude to hold throughout life.

Disadvantages -

1) Lack of social life - I knew a couple kids from around the neighborhood, but not too many. My social exposure was very limited as well. However, I don't feel this really crippled me, since I was socially well-adjusted by sophomore year in high school, and I'm having no difficulties in college.


Obviously, the quality of the home school experience is directly related to the quality of the parent doing the teaching. I was lucky enough to have an excellent teacher as a mother, and I'm certain my home schooling was a boon for my education.

[SCRawl]

All things being equal, I think my wife would prefer to go the homeschool route for our two girls. She's a qualified teacher, though she only actually taught for a couple of years, and I think that she legitimately feels that she can do as well or better than anything the public system is likely to offer. Her strengths are on the arts side of things, and mine are in the sciences, so together we could likely do fairly well.

My preference is for public school, since there's a much greater availability of socialization. This is not to say that homeschooling has no such availability, but it's just not there on a constant, everyday basis. I also prefer having teachers who can bring their more specialized backgrounds to the table, while we can offer only our relatively limited expertise.

In the end, it's a moot point, since we really can't afford it. I just wanted to add to the chorus of those saying that homeschooling need be for idealogical reasons, and by those who are grossly underqualified to do so.

[Cairber]

I would not be too worried for the child if a few SDNers decided to homeschool. I actually did consider it briefly, but, like I said, all the groups around here were wackos.

I'm glad that there are some examples here of a good homeschooling experience; you all bring up my opinion on the matter a bit

[anybody_mcc]

Perhaps it isn't viewed that way by the standards of eastern Europe. After all, President Bush got crowds of cheering fans when he last went there.

Crowds of cheering fans?

What?

I don't know about other countries, in here he got off the plane (the airport was cleared of spectators beforehand), said hello to Big Ducky (our president ), then got on a helicopter, flew to the meeting spot, then flew back and got out.

The only crowds were protesters camped out by the presidential retreat where his meeting with our president was to take place.

In short, no. Few people if any love Bush much, and american media are almost universally distrusted.

The same here, there were some cheering fans, but they are a minority and there were much bigger protests. The problem is our current goverment is extremely pro-American (even though even many of their voters do not like Bush and current American policies) and media wants to please them so they are not really reporting ( at all or accurately ) about the protests.

On the topic, fortunately here homeschooling is not very popular. There are not many religious reasons for that and schools are not that bad, but it is spreading, mostly among those "return-to-nature" people, who live on farms when they reject most of the technology.

[Darth Wong]

A good question to ask about homeschooling is: if you walked into a public school and saw that <insert parent's name here> was the teacher, would you be happy?

In some cases, you'd be happy. There are plenty of smart, conscientious, well-educated people out there. In other cases, you'd be extremely concerned. That's what Bible-Belt homeschooling boils down to: a one-room schoolhouse with (in far too many cases) an idiot for a teacher.