Friend tries to convince me to homeschool

[rhoenix]

I was homeschooled from about kindergarten level to 4th grade, and some things stuck with me - such as nearly automatically looking up a mis-understood word, learning from context (to a degree), my spatial intelligence, and my love of reading.

On the other hand, Darth Wong makes an excellent point - there aren't many parents I'd be very happy seeing at the front of a classroom.

[Plekhanov]

It reminds me of people who say that the American media is balanced between FOXNews on the right and CNN on the left. They honestly have no clue that for most of the world, CNN is considered a zionist right-wing network.

CNN is right-wing? How so?

Take at look at this clip of a panel discussion on atheism on CNN for an example, when I holidayed in the US a few years back I was shocked just how far to the right of the British media their TV news channels including CNN were.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

I've had one friend who's had a halfway decent homeschool experience. Then again, her parents are pseudo-pagan unitarians, so there's definitely a lack of the typical conservative-christian background there.

She got a decent level of science/technical education, a decent focus on computers, keyboarding and basic programming skills, and an incredible education in basic tolerance and respect for others. Even so, her math skills are still decidedly lacking and are her main concern for when she takes the GED.

In the end my opinion is even in the best home-schooling situations, it's best to get at least some professional help because very few parents have the full spectrum of knowledge required to provide the comprehensive education normally provided by a team of teachers.

[Ritterin Sophia]

It reminds me of people who say that the American media is balanced between FOXNews on the right and CNN on the left. They honestly have no clue that for most of the world, CNN is considered a zionist right-wing network.

CNN is right-wing? How so?

Well at the beginning of the year they held a special on discrimination against atheist, their panel had no atheists on it, and we were told that we 'need to shut up' and that America is a Christian Nation founded on the Christian Religion, counter to what President John Adams had signed into law in The Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11 and approved unanimously by the 3rd US Senate and said, ""As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

[Alerik the Fortunate]

As far as homeschooling goes, I've seen some pretty disturbing things in the way of materials that are offered. Christian groups produce lots of books and teaching materials to influence homeschooled children and parents. I've seen history books that basically said God instituted the Free Market and Republican party, and only by conscientiously voting Republican can America spread the "Chain of Liberty" to the rest of the world (which by the way, was endowed by God with infinite resources which are ignored by the alarmist Godless environmentalists). I've even seen math textbooks with sections on putting your faith in Jesus as the only way to salvation and how to evangelize your friends.

[Pollux]

As far as homeschooling goes, I've seen some pretty disturbing things in the way of materials that are offered. Christian groups produce lots of books and teaching materials to influence homeschooled children and parents. I've seen history books that basically said God instituted the Free Market and Republican party, and only by conscientiously voting Republican can America spread the "Chain of Liberty" to the rest of the world (which by the way, was endowed by God with infinite resources which are ignored by the alarmist Godless environmentalists). I've even seen math textbooks with sections on putting your faith in Jesus as the only way to salvation and how to evangelize your friends.

Math textbooks?

"Solve 4x^2+2x-18. Remember that the quadratic formula is a gift from the Lord Almighty, in His infinite wisdom. Don't forget to pray to our Lord Jesus in return for His kindness and sacrifice before solving this problem. If you do not, you will burn in the level of Hell reserved for Satanist Atheists who think that sinful men could create mathematical formulas!

Praise the Lord!"

[Darth Wong]

How many of you have actually known hardcore fundies in real-life? Trust me when I say that they look for this kind of book. Remember that all math textbooks contain word problems, and most word problems are based on hypothetical scenarios. It's a simple matter to make every single scenario a religious one. So instead of Bob leaving Chicago heading west at 3:00pm and Kathy leaving Los Angeles heading east at 6:00am, you have Jebediah carrying a box of Bibles from the church at noon, to meet up with a youth Bible study group in the park. Or (in the case of the more disturbing textbooks) calculations on how many heathens have to be killed per day in order to achieve victory in the time of the Great Tribulation following the Rapture.

[Pollux]

Or (in the case of the more disturbing textbooks) calculations on how many heathens have to be killed per day in order to achieve victory in the time of the Great Tribulation following the Rapture.

...This is quite possibly one of the most frightening things I have ever heard of.

[Zwinmar]

even in the fundie school I was forced to go to the homeschoolers were made fun of. It's really sad to see. Most of them were at the extreme edge, the impression I got was that they were willing to crusade instead of just spout off at the mouth.

[Darth Wong]

Or (in the case of the more disturbing textbooks) calculations on how many heathens have to be killed per day in order to achieve victory in the time of the Great Tribulation following the Rapture.

...This is quite possibly one of the most frightening things I have ever heard of.

Have you ever watched "Jesus Camp"? Or talked to a hardcore Rapture fundie face to face? I've had someone tell me to my face that "Yes, the Buddhists all deserve to die". In my sig is a quote from a fundie who used to post here on this forum, who said that he would have no problem killing babies if he believed that God commanded it.

[Surlethe]

I know fundies who have claimed if they're sitting at a table and they thought God told them that table did not exist, they would agree that the table actually did not exist and was only an illusion. It's very difficult to underestimate the strength of a fundamentalist's conviction that he is correct.

[Pollux]

Have you ever watched "Jesus Camp"? Or talked to a hardcore Rapture fundie face to face? I've had someone tell me to my face that "Yes, the Buddhists all deserve to die". In my sig is a quote from a fundie who used to post here on this forum, who said that he would have no problem killing babies if he believed that God commanded it.

I have seen the trailer to Jesus Camp. It scared the shit out of me.

I have been lucky enough not to encounter any Rapture fundies, though I have encountered some who think atheists deserve a horrible, tortuous, death on the rack.

However, the corruption of motherfucking mathematics into a vehicle for their hate hits a soft spot in me. Basically, I find it especially disturbing due to the "Is nothing out of their reach now!?" factor.

[Soldier of Entropy]

Or (in the case of the more disturbing textbooks) calculations on how many heathens have to be killed per day in order to achieve victory in the time of the Great Tribulation following the Rapture.

...This is quite possibly one of the most frightening things I have ever heard of.

Have you ever watched "Jesus Camp"? Or talked to a hardcore Rapture fundie face to face? I've had someone tell me to my face that "Yes, the Buddhists all deserve to die". In my sig is a quote from a fundie who used to post here on this forum, who said that he would have no problem killing babies if he believed that God commanded it.

[Soldier of Entropy]

Ghetto Edit:
Sorry, I hit the preview button and somehow everything I changed was erased when I posted it, but it showed up normal in the preview. What I meant to say was that two people in my school have told me (and several hindus and other atheists/agnostics in my school) that God has the right to kill non-monotheists. One didn't surprise me; he's a fundy moron (who, oddly enough, is gifted, incidentally). The other one however is fairly moderate (pro-stem cell, anti-abortion, anti-Iraq, anti-Bush, pro-prayer in schools, pro-ID in Science classes, pro-gay rights, etc.), yet she still believed this.

[Lisa]

I'm biased against homeschooling due to my friend. Aside from school, he wasn't allowed to leave the house until he was six and barred from watching any television except for kid's shows and religious channels (and he's atheist, but his mom would probably whip him for not attending). He not only looks like he's ten despite being almost fifteen, but he acts like it. Whiny, a compulsive liar who likes to pretend things he did in the past didn't exist, believes his own bullshit (spending five minutes thinking petroleum was plutonium, for one), and has an inability to realize that he's being annoying. Even when we tell him to stop talking, he ignores us and continues on with the topic even when it's obvious nobody wants to listen. He also likes to act like an idiot just to get me angry, which is a really bad idea because oftentimes even my own mother hits him for some of the really bad things he's done (like telling someone who hates me that I played Michael Jackson in Drama class just to see how much he makes fun of me).

Why are you friends with him?

[wautd]

As far as homeschooling goes, I've seen some pretty disturbing things in the way of materials that are offered. Christian groups produce lots of books and teaching materials to influence homeschooled children and parents. I've seen history books that basically said God instituted the Free Market and Republican party, and only by conscientiously voting Republican can America spread the "Chain of Liberty" to the rest of the world (which by the way, was endowed by God with infinite resources which are ignored by the alarmist Godless environmentalists). I've even seen math textbooks with sections on putting your faith in Jesus as the only way to salvation and how to evangelize your friends.

Aren't their laws against that?

[Surlethe]

Aren't their laws against that?

In short, no. Parents are free to teach their children what they want, and publishers are free to put out "educational" material that is not fact-checked. If were a parent and wanted to, I could teach my children with L. Ron Hubbard's books as textbooks.

In fact, there's an organization that provides free legal defense for homeschool families who want to teach their children such things: the HSLDA. Naturally, they're a Christian organization, although they claim to support non-Christian homeschoolers (who are a minority, anyway). They also founded Patrick Henry "College".

[Metatwaddle]

In the end my opinion is even in the best home-schooling situations, it's best to get at least some professional help because very few parents have the full spectrum of knowledge required to provide the comprehensive education normally provided by a team of teachers.

Maybe for the older kids, but I don't know if there would be such a problem at, say, elementary-school age. The things you learn in elementary school are common knowledge to any reasonably educated adult (and you mentioned "the best homeschooling situations", so I'm assuming that in this case the parents are reasonably educated). I had a very good (and expensive) elementary school education, but the funny thing is, I would have trusted either of my parents to teach me the stuff I needed to know through sixth grade. The main advantage to being in a real elementary school, I think, is social, not academic. (Unless the parents are uneducated fundies, which they often are.)

After sixth grade, though, it's unlikely that anyone would be able to teach all subjects competently. I'd entrust the teaching of all high school science and math courses to my father, although I've never met anyone else with the same broad spectrum of scientific knowledge as him. I suspect people like him are rather rare. My mom would have been a passable writing teacher (though nowhere near as good as the superb English teacher I had throughout most of high school). Neither of them could have taught me history, social studies or any foreign language.

How many of you have actually known hardcore fundies in real-life? Trust me when I say that they look for this kind of book. Remember that all math textbooks contain word problems, and most word problems are based on hypothetical scenarios. It's a simple matter to make every single scenario a religious one. So instead of Bob leaving Chicago heading west at 3:00pm and Kathy leaving Los Angeles heading east at 6:00am, you have Jebediah carrying a box of Bibles from the church at noon, to meet up with a youth Bible study group in the park. Or (in the case of the more disturbing textbooks) calculations on how many heathens have to be killed per day in order to achieve victory in the time of the Great Tribulation following the Rapture.

Wow. That's pretty bad. My cousin was homeschooled by a fundie pastor's wife for years, and she would get the "carrying a stack of Bibles" sorts of problems, but I never saw the "how many heathens must be killed" variety.

Another popular theme in Christian homeschooling books is to use Biblical characters: "David was counting his sheep. His flock usually numbered 169, but he could only find 134. How many sheep were missing?" Unfortunately, they only took the most sterilized parts of the Bible for this. It would have been fun to see, "King Solomon had 800 concubines..."

[Darth Wong]

Wow. That's pretty bad. My cousin was homeschooled by a fundie pastor's wife for years, and she would get the "carrying a stack of Bibles" sorts of problems, but I never saw the "how many heathens must be killed" variety.

To be fair, that is an extremely marginal fringe. There's also a company based in Texas which makes openly anti-Semitic history textbooks where Jews are identified as the cause of every war in the last thousand years. But again, it should be stressed that this is fringe stuff, even for the fundies.