Paper-Scissors-Rock scenarios

[Rathark]

1. A powerful telepath can stun a Shadow warship.

2. An Omega Destroyer can vapourise a telepath.

3. A Shadow warship can slice up an Omega.


Can anyone else think of similar scenarios in SF?

[Smiling Bandit]

Well, a basic one is this:

A swarm of fighter/bombers can cripple a capital ship

A much smaller swarm of light frigates and patrol ships can effectively dismantle the fighters and bombers.

A huge capship can smash through the frigates.

[Mr Bean]

In SW Terms

72 B-Wings Kills ISD
4 Lancers Kill 72 B-Wings
One ISD Kills 4 Lancers

[Cpt_Frank]

you mean 72 b-wings with elite pilots. An ISD's shields are strong, and it has many guns...

[Mr Bean]

Naa even idiots could do this all they have to do is Run shields to the Front get within range, Shavo off the torps then wiggle a bit so even brain dead chimps can't him them, Salvo the next two off and switch to guns and follow the torps in

Also remeber the B-Wings have a definate edge on the ISD as they can attack from all angles or concentrate on one area, Also this is what fighters are for

[Darth Garden Gnome]

I seriously doubt even a wing of B-Wings ability to kill an ISD. They aren't very manuverable, and we've seen instances were ISDs shot down much faster and more manuverable fighters (X-Wings). Concentrating there fire on one target would have a powerful effect, but for the above reason even an attack like this si bound to fail.

[Cpt_Frank]

It's a fact, in SW, fighters aren't capship killers.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Indeed, there more of the guys who wait till the shields down and then target the guns on the suface, or sensor stations, ect. They would probably wait for the shields to fall, and then pound the crap out of a certain area so when turbolasers came to bear on it, it would be softened up and thus a goner.

[Mr Bean]

Fokes FOKES!
Fighters in SW ARE Cap Killers but the avarage Fighter is not CARRYING Cap Killer Weaponry. Or to put it another way in the US every single F-XX to launch off a Carrier is not carrying A Sparrow A Sidewinder, A GPS Guided Bomb and A Harpoon missile
SW Fighters are general carrying Anti-Fighter load-outs and it seems that they can't carry both, just one or the other and when your launching from a Cap-ship to fight another Cap-Ship which is also Launching Fighters doesn't it make sense to carry Anti-Fighter Missles Instead of Cap Killers?
Kill the most like you first is the rule of combat. And unlike Modern day Fighter's SW Fighters can't carry both kinds of load-outs, just one or the other

Thus a B-Wing Mounted for Anti-Cap Duity will be quite good at this and quite terrible at Anti-Fighter Duity

And my little Theory quite neatly explains the X-Wing Series of Books without resorting to the its just a X-Wing Love Wank fest series of books

SW uses Tatics and ideas quite similar to our own Modern day Army/Navy/Air-Force with a few diffrences(Every ship is a carrier) and fire-power scalling, Why would they be any diffrent in this that there are diffrent Load-outs for Fighters? Onces that trade Manuvrabilty for Extra punch or Vis Versia?

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Although, Mr.Bean, I agree that Cap ship killer weaponry is wielded by the B-Wing, it can only be of so much use. The bombs they carry are simply too weak when compared to turbolasers. They need to be used in conjunction with other, larger capships in order to significant damage. As i said softening the target with fighter strikes, while the capship moves in for the kill.

Anyways it would be so, so, so silly to make these big-ass, resource draining, matienence extensive, highly crewed ship, if it could be destroyed by these tiny, cheap, easily matainable, one man (B-Wing/E2 has two crew members, however), fighters now wouldn't it?

And the comparison with modern day navy simply doesn't cut it. Today a single fighter, carryign enough ordanace can indeed take down something as large as a carrier, this is for two reasons 1.) The size scale isn't as absurd as an ISD vs. a wing of B-Wings. 2.) We have yet to develop sheilds/resiliant enough armor to protect against such assaults. Not so the mighty ISD, who is friggin gigantonourmous when compared to even a wing of B-Wings, and who has sheilds desinged to take teraton level damage.

Anyways, I think each B-Wing can carry 16 proton topedoes, in a wing thats 1152 torps total. Even if we assume each torp is 10 gigatons (a very generous assumption) thats only 11.52 teratons of damage, something I'm damn sure a capship can take.

And again modern day aircraft can fire anti-ship missles against carriers and expect to kill them, SW fighters cannot. Thus a modern day aircraft can fire an anti-ship missle and fly off not fearing much opposition. SW fighters have to stay near the ISD for exteneded periods of time and all the while getting shot at by like ( I think) 80+ anti-starfighter guns.

In short, fighters are not, soley alone, capship killers. They weaken capships and a navy wiht fighters vs. a navy without them, the navy with fighters will have much easier time as the enemy craft will have weakened sheilds/hulls, and less gun turrets ect. But capships are necessary to kill capships, IMO.

And Stackpoles book cannot be justified, its all ne big X-Wing Wank-Fest-athon, like it or lump it.

But this threads already gotten enourously off-topic as it is.

[Doomriser]

Be careful what you say about B-Wings. A shot of them blowing up an ISD was cut from ROTJ and it might wind its way back into the SSE. In addition, the SWEGVV or maybe it was the SWTC explains that B-Wings carry "emission-type" proton torpedoes, while it does not apply that label to any other Rebel fighter. Since the B-Wing is a 'heavy assault Starfighter,' this nomenclature indicates that the B-Wing may have a more powerful torpedo armament.

[Master of Ossus]

I seriously doubt even a wing of B-Wings ability to kill an ISD. They aren't very manuverable, and we've seen instances were ISDs shot down much faster and more manuverable fighters (X-Wings). Concentrating there fire on one target would have a powerful effect, but for the above reason even an attack like this si bound to fail.

'Fraid you're wrong, here. Each B-Wing can fire two torpedoes, simultaneously, from a total of two magazines with six torpedoes each. Even assuming that they could each only get off one set of two torpedoes, that would be enough to overwhelm even the shields on an ISD (ref. Bacta War).

[Mr Bean]

Yes ISD and Plantary shields have been show if you Slam a decent amount of power on them all at once you can *crack the shields temporarly enough to let a torp or two slip through(Its to prevent overloads, Its possible to have the shields go in holes(Bacta War) or sections at once depending on the ship type and shield set-up)

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Fair enough guys, they can temporarily knock out sheilds through a quick barrage with alotta bombs,(ref. Batca War, apparently) however, then the order of buisness shifts from the sheilds to the armor, assuming we're talking about an ISD, I still doubt that a wing of B-Wings could put up anything too terribly devastating. They might pierce the armor an damage some systems, but it won't be enough, and then the sheilds will start back up, and its back to square one for the B-Wings.

And this is all while these slow, unmanuverable ships, plodding about, are getting shot at by 80+ anti-starfigher guns. These guns have been able to nail something as sleek as a X-Wing, so a B-Wing should be a walk in the park. There numbers would dwindle quickly.

And all this is happening while their torpedoes are trying to knock out sheilds, or layer sof armor, and then sheilds, armor, ect. They gonna run out quickly, and their puny laser cannons just aint gonna cut it against something like an ISD.

And, lets not forget, and ISD can sit in a warzone filled with dozens of capships firing at it for a half an hour (ref, Battle of Endor). And if what you say is true about how to overload sheilds, there taking half of this punishment without them! A seriously doubt that a wing of B-Wings can inflict more damage than 2-3 Mon Cal cruisers blastign at an ISD for a half an hour, seeing as they dont have infinate torpedoes, there stockpile sof that would disapear long before 30 minutes is up, each torpedo doing less damage than a TL blast.

I reiterate, heavy assault fighters like the B-Wing are used for softening targets so that capships can move in for the kill. Putting aside Stackpoles X-Wing Wank-athons, I don't think there's an evidence of such small groups of fighters crushing something like an ISD.

[Mr Bean]

Cap ship fights are diffent for that half an Hour you can drop shields for everything except the side your facing the other ship and not just double or triple your life exptancy but quadriple it or more

That Z Warlod(Znji or somthing) mentions this in Solo Command when he recalls his fighters to protect the Iron Fist from roughly twenty squadrens of fighters but because of this the Mon Cal Cruiser which would have quickly died drops all shields but the one imdetly facing the Iron Fist allowing a ship out-guned Eight to one to not only escape but with minium damage

The point is with Cap Ships if you can destroy the Light and Medium guns on one side(Rouglhy fifty or so targets, they are also bunched so an attack aginst one is normaly an attack agints two or three) you effectly have free rein of the ship and they are in a word, Screwed.

Once one side of your ship is defensly while faceing a Cap ship you could roll and present them with an undamage side you CANT VS Fighters

And SW Fighter Turbolasers while useless agints Shield targets will quickly carve up an ISD)

This is how Cracken killed a Victory Class ISD with just a SQUADREN as he from all indcations took out the bridge with a Suprise attack and before the back-up bridge crew could recate, Blew most of the weaponry off one side of the hull, then smashed the Engines, by the time they got the shields on most where either destroyed or on the wrong side letting them leasury kill the Vic

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Ok Mr.Bean, you win (yet again ) I concede. Now if you'd just said that earlier I coulda avoided all that pointless debating. Well bah humbug to that I say!

[Mr Bean]

Well Gnome I did get on the Council by sitting around Looking Pretty

Instead I focuse and honed my debating skills for an entire SIX MINTUES!

Oh and that umm seven years I spent in High-school Collage, guess that counts to.

That and owning most of the SW books and having hords of ST people to ask questions about specfic epsoides(And yes I do know someone with every single ST series and show on DVD's They are great guys to know)

[RayCav of ASVS]

This is how Cracken killed a Victory Class ISD with just a SQUADREN as he from all indcations took out the bridge with a Suprise attack and before the back-up bridge crew could recate, Blew most of the weaponry off one side of the hull, then smashed the Engines, by the time they got the shields on most where either destroyed or on the wrong side letting them leasury kill the Vic

Nice of Cracken to allow for the captain to surrender and bring home a damaged VSD....

Cracken is a Crack, as well as anything associated with his name (not the least of which are his starship dossiers!)