B5: The Lost Tales (Possible Spoilers)

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2007-07-31 05:04pm

Picked it up today.

Both stories are decidedly low budget, with the first story seemingly far less budget than the second. Neither was what I had imagined them to be. I didn't exactly expect it to be a blockbuster story, but neither really lived up to even the series itself. The sets seemed very empty (or flat wrong with regards to the corridors in my opinion), and there was very little for the characters to play off of. Both stories had the characters talking to themselves where another character of some kind would have been good.

The first story in particular fell pretty flat because it didn't go anywhere as far as I could tell. It was, in essence, talking heads in religious tones until the end where Lockley figures it out and talks some more. Not exactly a stirring drama. The lack of background or extra happenings didn't help matters. There seemed to be few, if any, stakes invovled.

The second story was a bit better, but I wouldn't say it had me rivited to my seat. I never had a problem with Galen like a lot of people here did, but there was very little I felt either could really work with.

The extras regarding Andreaus and Richard were good.

Any thoughts from anyone else?

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2007-07-31 06:14pm

I was not at all crazy about the first segment. B5 has long been capable of riding the line of religious ambiguity in spite of JMS's professed atheism. I suppose it can be justified as some screwy aliens, exiled to Earth, still it felt preachy and it was not at all what I'd expect from JMS.

Oh, and B5 ranks are officially fucked with Lochley now being a Colonel (which is apparently above Captain). At least they kept continuity as past EA Marine Colonel's shown during the series ("Eyes") had the same rank insignia.

The second part was better with some nice mentions of other characters.

Overall the cast was on the ball character wise.

There was some really nice spaceship porn though. The series itself could really benefit for a visual effects redux.

It wasn't crap like "Legend of the Rangers", but really didn't seem to add much to the overall story of Babylon 5. More like "what's the point?"

Haven't watched the extras yet.

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2007-07-31 06:14pm

Watching now. The CGI looks great, but I have yet to be impressed by the possession story (is there anyone else on the station? Helllooooo?).

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2007-07-31 06:21pm

Thag wrote:Watching now. The CGI looks great, but I have yet to be impressed by the possession story (is there anyone else on the station? Helllooooo?).

Thought the same. It would have been nice to see more of the station's interior. I'd have loved to see areas like the central core in modern CG. I never thought the effects of the time ever really conveyed B5 as a "self contained world". Alas...

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2007-07-31 06:51pm

I actually felt B5 more of a self-contained world in the series than I did here. I just made the comment to someone about the lack of the central corridor, the lack of people, the lack of....really anything. The docking bay was perhaps the best scene to help us remember that this is a large station, but I was hoping for some more familiar scenes. And there was something about the corridors that was just completely off from what I remember.

On the plus side, I felt the station looked great. The spaceship porn was good, though brief (especially the dream sequence) and there were some oddities (30 years later the Starfury is still in service as a front-line fighter against the Centauri?). The emptiness of the set was magnified by the fact that Lockley had a conversation with herself in her quarters with no one.

Ultimately, the production does have the feeling of extreme lack of funds. As little as they had to work with on the series, it felt more lived in and worked in than this did.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2007-07-31 07:18pm

My main issue is that both stories were Crusade-style preachy and not B5 political backstabbing/space-battle porn. I can like the Outer Limits-like stories in B5, but for the first thing out of the gate I really would have preferred either the Telepath War or some sort of space battle porn.

The first one annoyed me with the very blatant Judeocristianism is true vibe, without even giving throwaways to the contrary (did like the first conversation where, quite logically, the priest explains how religion is losing ground). During the entire thing I wanted Lochley to remember that Vorlons=Angles and get somewhere from that angle instead of the story choice of playing it straight. Eeevil spirits/aliens/devils trapped on Earth? How very Scientologious of JMS.

The second one had some really nice moments (the roll call, Sheridan's considerations), however it was also marred by the perfect ending which strains continuity and just feels too neat. I really would have preferred if there was at least an indication that Sheridan's picture perfect solution might fail. Also didn't get the need for yet another technobabble travel method and the cheap gag that was used for. In that vein, I also found the new cruiser not really needed, especially in the context of the shown future battle with everyone participating with old designs (EA is still using original Starfuries ffs). The IA seems to produce a new design every couple of years in contrast (Whitestar, LotR crapheap, LotR cruiser, Victory-class, now this cruiser and we know of the modified Whitestar Sheridan uses on his final trip some a decade in the future). That doesn't sit right with me.

All in all, a mixed bag in my opinion. The CGI space-porn was excellent, however in the composited scenes the actors really stuck out and it didn't feel realistic (felt like something out of a '90ies bluescreen FMV videogame footage). In fact, it felt less realistic then blue-screen situations in original B5. Think this is down to JMS and his lack of directing experience. The background were too static. As far as the stories go, as can be seen above, I have serious problems with both of them. I'm getting this Crusade vibe from these first attempts and that is not good.

Really love the planetary pan in the beginning. The destruction and reconstruction of B5 I'm ambivalent about but the part where the music goes into high gear and the planetary panning starts really makes for an excellent intro/title shot (B5 did always do those well).

Thag · Post by **Thag** » 2007-07-31 07:54pm

The beginning of the second part seemed to start off well enough, I was actually starting to think it might go somewhere. Then, it just seemed to trail off into a whimper. The space scenes were great, and I like what they did with the music, but it's like they blew the whole budget there and just filmed JMS's storyboard notes.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2007-08-02 08:20am

Yeah JMS isn't a director, he should stick to doing what he does best.

And hell, this was BOTH his first time directing using all but exclusive virtual sets IIRC, the first time he has directed using digital technology and the first time he's shot using HDTV.

So yeah. I think he got a little ahead of himself. Which is really just too damn bad.

Of course the plot...well...I wasn't exactly hoping for much after Legend of the Rangers...

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2007-08-02 01:26pm

JMS pulled a Lucas, there's some things he shouldn't do like directing. Stick to creation/writing, though I think his overly long dialogues didn't mesh well with the low budget/low scope feel. It put me to sleep mostly between some great CGI, minus the possessed fire effects.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-08-03 04:08pm

God, the first story was so insufferably lame.

Second story:
Quantum space? What the hell?

Oh YAY, yet another "dark, foreboding" figure who is supposed to be badass yet comes off as just another of those lame dudes who belongs on those ultra-cheap "fantasy" shows shot in the forests of British Columbia. Outstanding.

Oh gee, yet another Future Earth With Flying Cars.

"for those of us who live in the ultimate realm between science and magic, between illusion and ultimate truth..." LAME LAME LAME

So much slow-paced filler dialogue.

The music seems more... generic. It's Christopher Franke, but it still doesn't quite feel right.

Wow, I didn't think Minbari starship corridors could look lamer, but I guess I was wrong.

Wait, how do the Technomages know the future so certainly? And why can't they move directly against the Centauri dude rather than try and con someone else into it?

The biggest problem: nothing really happens in these stories.

I'm glad I got to borrow this from a friend because I would have been very disappointed if I'd had to pay for it.

Honestly, at this point, I think it's time to just consider Babylon 5 done.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2007-08-03 05:38pm

Uraniun235 wrote: Honestly, at this point, I think it's time to just consider Babylon 5 done.

I second that motion. I loved the original, but the more I see, the more I think JMS is somthing of a one-trick pony. Anyone who read the script for the final first season episode of Crusade can see mirrors of the final episode of season 1 (corruption in Earthgov, someone gets shot...), and by that time we know about when and how he will turn the tables on us making the cure less important.

In other words, he does long stories well (though seems to run on a semi-formula), while anything short generally doesn't come out well. But these stories really set a new low for the franchise, and I think it would really be best if it was dropped altogether. The majority of the people buying this DVD would be fans of the show, thus would know something of the lore. So if you don't have a big budget to work with, at least work within the confines of established lore. Make it so the story has the possibility of being interesting, even if you have no money to throw around.

This....I really don't know what this is. Even the second story felt, at best, like a season 1 story with a very cliche and predictable end. The first story was so far below that, I kept waiting for something....anything....to happen. While the low budget was certainly noticable, it was the lack of any real story that made these disks sucktacular.

And for the price....

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2007-08-03 05:58pm

The only good thing I can about this is it's better than Legend of the Rangers.

And seriously, that's not much of a compliment.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-08-04 04:18am

Even the second story felt, at best, like a season 1 story with a very cliche and predictable end.

Maybe, maybe one of the worst season 1 episodes... but for the most part even season 1 was so much better than this dreck.

I wish we could have more quality Babylon 5. But it's pretty clear that even if the cast and studio difficulties could be overcome, the creator has basically proven himself unable to effectively write for his own franchise any more. (Could this be considered 'pulling a Roddenberry'?)

Post by **fgalkin** » 2007-08-04 04:58am

And this, folks, is why necromancy is bad. Zombie B5 sucks out your brains.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2007-08-06 08:35pm

Damn. I had such high hopes. But it sounds like this thing is a major turd.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2007-08-07 05:13am

Anguirus wrote:Damn. I had such high hopes. But it sounds like this thing is a major turd.

Pretty much. I was being somewhat generous with my "mixed bag" comment do to nostalgia.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2007-08-08 02:25pm

Honestly, the only good thing I have to say about this, other than the up-to-date CGI models of the ships and station, is Sheridan telling that cabbie "Up yours!". Honestly, I really think that was adlib.

As for the extras, the only good bit (aside from the interviews talking about Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas) was the sock puppet gag. THAT was downright hilarious! Even the WB guy was trying his best not to laugh.

Coalition · Post by **Coalition** » 2007-08-08 10:43pm

I watched it, and I agree on the above.

Changes that could have been made:
1st show: The critter is actually a leftover Shadow war machine, designed to make chaos wherever it goes. It came up with a plan to turn the church against everyone else, and decided to go with it.

Unfortunately, in the recording, the ship's captain talks about people getting into arguments all the time, and at B5, Lochley admits that they had a White Star scan his cell. They know the truth, and a cleanup team arrives. You end with the Shadow critter begging for its life, and they just turn away, as they are just turning off a machine.

2nd show: Why do Galen and other Technomages keep appearing to Sheridan? (long speech existing in the movie). "Short answer: you get things done. You can be relied upon."

As to the spaceship battle, that could occur later anyway, where the last rogue Warlocks are hunted down and destroyed. Unfortunately, in the process, they had been attacking other worlds, and the Centauri blames Earth for their attacks. (Similar to how the Narn and Drazi fleets knew that the Centauri were responsible for the attacks and went after Centauri Prime.)

By having Prince-Regent learn to trust Sheridan, Delenn, and David, he would be more likely to talk to them, than launch the fleet.

My thoughts.