Vader takes over the GE

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2007-08-02 12:25am

Awesome drawing!

Actually, wasn't Vader tremendously popular with the rank-and-file of the Imperial armed forces? I can't recall where I read it, but I seem to remember something to that effect.

This was a minor plot point in an early draft of RotJ that I read. However, my impression from the EU is that only the stormtroopers liked Vader...the officer corps resented being ordered around and killed off by some guy who wasn'teven in the rank structure.

Darth Ruinus · Post by **Darth Ruinus** » 2007-08-02 12:32am

Anguirus wrote:<snip>
This was a minor plot point in an early draft of RotJ that I read. However, my impression from the EU is that only the stormtroopers liked Vader...the officer corps resented being ordered around and killed off by some guy who wasn'teven in the rank structure.

Maybe it also has to do with the fact that the Stormies liked Vader, who as you say, is outside the command structure. I dont think alot of the Imperial officers would like that very much.

That and he is more badass than they are

.

Dark Flame · Post by **Dark Flame** » 2007-08-02 02:12pm

In Truce at Bakura it shows that some Imperials, in this case a local politician, actively hated Vader. She resented his power and his use of the Force because of her belief in the Galactic Balance, or something like that.

This is just one instance though, and it is obviously not universal.

Edit: It was the Cosmic Balance, not the Galactic Balance.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2007-08-02 02:15pm

That was a religion afaik restricted to one planet.

Dark Flame · Post by **Dark Flame** » 2007-08-02 02:28pm

Yes, it was practiced only on Bakura.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2007-08-02 02:30pm

One planet is a drop in the ocean in the GE.

Dark Flame · Post by **Dark Flame** » 2007-08-02 02:41pm

Hence where I said:

This is just one instance though, and it is obviously not universal.

This just goes to show that even in Imperial ranks there are at least a few (yes, just a drop in the ocean, but still) people that oppose Vader.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2007-08-02 02:48pm

Vader would at least have to come to an understanding with either Sate Pestage, Ars Dangor or Vandron and their respective factions to get a grip on the Imperial bureaucracy. He'll have to deal with the COMPNOR people and other ideologues.

As for the military, cutting a deal with some of the grand admirals and high command would be a good idea. It's probably better to get rid of Isard and replace her with some one else. There'll still be warlords, but Thrawn, Teshik should be able to handle them.

The Inquisitorius and the Royal Guard could prove to be troublesome, as well as anyone with residual loyalty to Palpatine as a person, such as the Hands. They can't threaten Vader mano a mano, but they could wreck havoc on the institutions and people he needs to rule the Empire.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2007-08-02 06:31pm

Vader's got a couple of huge problems to deal with taking over for Palps. The first is convincing the naval gentry to fall in line: as I recall, they're depicted quite often to have little but fear and loathing for him. The second is getting the common people behind him: even late in the Empire, Palps had huge public support and love. Darth Vader, on the other hand, was a relative unknown early on, and a sort of galactic boogeyman later on. I imagine, then, that any troublemaking political or naval figures would have some ease rallying planets against Vader: at best, he's unknown, at worst, a monster.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2007-08-02 08:02pm

Anguirus wrote:the officer corps resented being ordered around and killed off by some guy who wasn'teven in the rank structure.

You should note Vader was Supreme Commander of all Imperial forces. He was in the rank structure, and at the top of it, too.

ArcturusMengsk · Post by **ArcturusMengsk** » 2007-08-02 08:34pm

Much of the question probably hinges on those members of the Imperial elite that Vader could count on for support. As Pelranius pointed out, he could probably rely on several of the Grand Admirals. Depending on when Vader killed the Emperor, however, he might not be in a position to garner aid from any of the Grand Moffs - and we know that some of them, like Trachta, actively despised him. And a number of the more independent-minded Dark Jedi such as Jerec might be more inclined to strike out on their own and carve out personal fiefdoms rather than submit to Vader's rule. He might also face rival claimants to the throne in the form of those who are related or who claim to be related to Palpatine, such as Trioculus and Irek Ismaren. While they would never be able to face Vader directly, it is possible that a number of anti-Sith Imperials might use them as figureheads against Vader. It is also possible that the Prophets of the Dark Side might work against Lord Vader, whom they've always seemed to have an antagonistic relationship with.

EDIT: Grand Moff Trachta, not Tremayne.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2007-08-02 08:54pm

You should note Vader was Supreme Commander of all Imperial forces. He was in the rank structure, and at the top of it, too.

Look at it from the POV of some guy who worked his way up to Admiral over 50 years. Who the hell is this guy, to get put in charge of everything after he loses the Death Star? Why is he killing officers left and right? He's just a fuckin' Emperor's Pet, that's what he is.

Vader was placed above the structure. I'm not arguing the legality of the Emperor's move (he's the fuckin' Emperor) but it strikes me as very clear that the Starfleet and the Army would see him as an outsider.

TC Pilot · Post by **TC Pilot** » 2007-08-02 09:57pm

Keep in mind also Vader consistently led his forces from the front, and has been leading forces since nearly the formtion of the Empire.

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2007-08-02 10:06pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Quite true. Vader was ruthless when it came to disciplining those under his command, but he evidently also had a fairly good reputation with the Imperial Army corps and the ranks of minor officers. Perhaps it was his almost mystic aura of power and fear that demanded respect, or his habit of placing himself in the thick of ground and space engagements alongside the common soldier.

Those who punish the commanders responsible for idiocy, rather than the hapless subordinates who get saddled with the blame, are popular with thr rank and file. Makes sense to me.

Master_Baerne · Post by **Master_Baerne** » 2007-08-02 10:06pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Quite true. Vader was ruthless when it came to disciplining those under his command, but he evidently also had a fairly good reputation with the Imperial Army corps and the ranks of minor officers. Perhaps it was his almost mystic aura of power and fear that demanded respect, or his habit of placing himself in the thick of ground and space engagements alongside the common soldier.

Those who punish the commanders responsible for idiocy, rather than the hapless subordinates who get saddled with the blame, are popular with thr rank and file. Makes sense to me.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2007-08-02 11:27pm

I think the biggest hurdle to Vader ruling the Empire effectively as Emperor is that he has no Vader of his own. I think if he somehow managed to actually get Luke to join him he would be ok.

Another thing... Palpatine is the Emperor, but nobody knows his alter ego. Vader on the other hand IS the alter ego. As Emperor, wouldn't he have to reveal himself as Anakin Skywalker? Would that help or hinder him?

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2007-08-02 11:38pm

havokeff wrote:I think the biggest hurdle to Vader ruling the Empire effectively as Emperor is that he has no Vader of his own. I think if he somehow managed to actually get Luke to join him he would be ok.

I agree.

Another thing... Palpatine is the Emperor, but nobody knows his alter ego. Vader on the other hand IS the alter ego. As Emperor, wouldn't he have to reveal himself as Anakin Skywalker? Would that help or hinder him?

According to 'Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader', high-ranking Imperial officials knew "Darth" was both a name and a title, and accepted Vader as the Emperor's right hand. Vader would have no need to say, "I'm really Anakin Skywalker," he just had to say, "I am Darth Vader. Obey me or die."

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-08-03 12:00am

havokeff wrote:I think the biggest hurdle to Vader ruling the Empire effectively as Emperor is that he has no Vader of his own. I think if he somehow managed to actually get Luke to join him he would be ok.

Well, he did have Lumiya, one of the Emperor's Hands that Vader personally trained. Certainly, she was pretty crazy, but she was also reasonably powerful in the Force, and had the whole "Dark Jedi cyborg enforcer" thing going.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2007-08-03 02:45am

Noble Ire wrote:
havokeff wrote:I think the biggest hurdle to Vader ruling the Empire effectively as Emperor is that he has no Vader of his own. I think if he somehow managed to actually get Luke to join him he would be ok.
Well, he did have Lumiya, one of the Emperor's Hands that Vader personally trained. Certainly, she was pretty crazy, but she was also reasonably powerful in the Force, and had the whole "Dark Jedi cyborg enforcer" thing going.

Actually, he did not have use Shira Brie as a cyborg until after the Battle of Hoth. Even then, she was pathetically weak. Her performance in a lightsaber fight was notably poor; at least Baron Tagge, who was not even Force-sensitive, had the presence of mind to avoid Luke Skywalker's lightsaber. Shira Brie literally ran right into it. The end of her first encounter with Luke Skywalker found her half-naked and humiliated.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2007-08-03 09:25am

Publius wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:
havokeff wrote:I think the biggest hurdle to Vader ruling the Empire effectively as Emperor is that he has no Vader of his own. I think if he somehow managed to actually get Luke to join him he would be ok.
Well, he did have Lumiya, one of the Emperor's Hands that Vader personally trained. Certainly, she was pretty crazy, but she was also reasonably powerful in the Force, and had the whole "Dark Jedi cyborg enforcer" thing going.
Actually, he did not have use Shira Brie as a cyborg until after the Battle of Hoth. Even then, she was pathetically weak. Her performance in a lightsaber fight was notably poor; at least Baron Tagge, who was not even Force-sensitive, had the presence of mind to avoid Luke Skywalker's lightsaber. Shira Brie literally ran right into it. The end of her first encounter with Luke Skywalker found her half-naked and humiliated.

Publius' point brings up another point: Lumiya was never intended to be a true apprentice from what I gather. In Vader's mind, she simply existed to help him to bring Vader's son to the dark side. Lumiya, whatever the half-insane Dark Jedi might herself think, was just a means to an end, and rather pathetic at that. The fact that she even dared to call herself a Dark Lady of the Sith simply shows how deluded she was. I greatly doubt that Vader would consider her to be an effective enforcer or even a desirable one; Jerec, Hrethir or Tremayne would serve better in that function.