Something Awful go to No Mutants Allowed(and other places)

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-01 10:09am

Who wants to experience the Fallout setting in a new way when you can bitch and moan about it being different?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2007-08-01 12:22pm

Oh man, this is classic. Here I though Que Que had run away for good, but he's back, and he's even funnier than ever.

You know, the greatest part here is that Que "They don't have the RIGHT" Que is trying to tell us that the NMA folks aren't so bad. I mean, okay, the one guy who said he slapped his girl, fine, but still, there's all these other people, the people who call fixed isometric games a "culture" and liken Bethesda to white supremacists and god-rockers, the people who said they would commit suicide, the people who think a game is going to be crap just because of who is developing it...

Oh wait, I just cut into your territory now, didn't I? Oh snap, I'm sorry Que "sprites aren't primitive" Que. I forgot, you're the TOTALLY REASONABLE Fallout fan that should be indicative of the general populace of NMA.

Shit, it doesn't matter. Que "aesthetics means saying a box is round" Que is better than all of us, can't you guys see that? He's using his lovingly hand-crafted computer of vacuum tubes and punch cards to type these posts, while we, on our cold, lifeless, mass-produced monstrous computers sit here and talk about the horrid, mass-produced games we're all looking forward to playing. We're not even human, we're mindless, soulless beasts that are devoid of love. Because we don't have his love, we can't see how awesome the first two Fallout games were, and how EVERYTHING PAST THAT POINT SUCKS, and yeah sure some people are going overboard, but the rest of them are totally reasonable. Totally. Que Que said so, and we can trust him to be perfectly objective.

Frankly, if everyone on NMA is only half as "reasonable" as Que Que here is, then the only conclusion I can come to is that "No Mutants Allowed" is a slick cover for a bunch of horribly mutated Fallout Fans who want people to think they're totally normal.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only ones that will outlive cockroaches in the coming nuclear apocalypse will be Fallout Fans, and when the radioactive dust settles, they're going to bitch about how it TOTALLY isn't like fallout.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-08-01 01:33pm

weemadando wrote:I got featured on the front page of NMA!

I find it amusing that the 'who blogged what' news items are getting an order of magnitude more posts than the ones with anything to do with the actual game. I suppose after sitting around for so long without fresh content, most members of that community are now much more keen to play 'bitch and whine on the Internet about meaningless nitpicking bullshit' than an actual game.

Though there are some golden responses in there:

I smell the Beth marketing machine and sold-out gaming media trying to spin those with objections to Fallout 3 into a myopic straw man

It's true! There is no escape from the GLOBAL BETHSEDA CONSPIRACY!!! They have more agents on their payroll than the entire US government!!11!!one

Enemies of Fallout feel need to vilify NMA, because it's the most rational and learned Fallout community.

...

Though incidentally,

People want a game with choices and consequences, a gritty, post-apocalyptic setting (no talking animals and no nuclear catapults for one)

WTF is that about? I'm hoping Fallout 3 is taking cues from Palladium's 'After The Bomb', because that setting was awesome.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-08-01 02:07pm

Huh...this is gold. Bethesda has no right to make a Fallout sequel? Then why the hell did they buy the rights for, then? To mount them on the wall?

They have every right to make a sequel. Of course, people have a right to criticize Beth, too, but come on. All we got right now are a few previews of the actual game, and some people try to deduce things like gameplay, overall humor, etc. out of these little snippets? Please...at least wait for some sort of a demo before passing judgement.

I don't understand what's wrong with the Fat Man, either. As long as the weapon is sufficiently awesome in it's firepower and deadly to the player as well as the enemy, I don't see how it's ridiculous or non-fallout in some way. It's just a Davey Crockett knockoff for fuck's sake. We've had those IRL.

Am I not a real Fallout fan now? I guess the fact I completed F1 some thirty-odd times within ten years and F2 at least a dozen counts for nothing...

EDIT: Oh, also...Fallout was not a gritty, grimey, serious game. Deal with it.

Joe Momma · Post by **Joe Momma** » 2007-08-01 03:31pm

Starglider wrote:
People want a game with choices and consequences, a gritty, post-apocalyptic setting (no talking animals and no nuclear catapults for one)
WTF is that about? I'm hoping Fallout 3 is taking cues from Palladium's 'After The Bomb', because that setting was awesome.

Dude, talking animals are totally non-Fallout. I bet Bethesda would even throw in nutty, completely-unprecedented-in-Fallout things like chess-playing radscorpions and talking plants.

None of that bullshit for me. I want the gritty, deadly serious atmosphere established by Monty Python special encounters, rayguns salvaged from crashed flying saucers, and people dancing a jig while burning like the Human Torch when hit by flamethrowers!

-- Joe Momma

CaptHawkeye · Post by **CaptHawkeye** » 2007-08-01 04:06pm

Vympel wrote: Did I mention that the gaming press are worse than the Washtington Beltway press corps because their previews for Fallout 3 didn't pan the shit out of it and point out everything that's clearly wrong with the game?

What really annoys me is that, if Fallout 3 does indeed go down the shitter and turns out to be a bad game, they will stand there like children and scream TOLD YA SO!!1one!!

But their is nothing to base that on. Everything i've heard about FA 3 has been great, and I am *NOT* about to let a bunch of fanatical Fallout Jihadists try to convince me to run away in fear from the game because the evil Badthesda is making it. And the more they try to convince you not to play the game, the more they make themselves look like raving lunatics.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-08-01 06:13pm

As if Fallout has been a successful series of games, anyway. Sure, Fallout I and II did well and were fun games, but what came after that? Shitastic games that were only good in spite of themselves. Bethsoft saved the damned series from oblivion. They should be greatful there's even another game in the first place, instead of the whole thing being flushed forever. Fucking fanboys.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2007-08-01 11:34pm

Haha, this is like kill your idols, only the other was round. Kill your fanbase. I like Bethestas way if thinking. Fuck the fans, just make a good, entertaining game that generates heaps of money.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2007-08-01 11:49pm

salm wrote:Haha, this is like kill your idols, only the other was round. Kill your fanbase. I like Bethestas way if thinking. Fuck the fans, just make a good, entertaining game that generates heaps of money.

Thing is, it's not that Bethesda is out to "fuck the fans", it's that there is this insane subset of Rabid Fallout Fans that simply cannot be pleased.

Most of the people who have enjoyed Fallout here are actually looking forward to Fallout 3. Hell, all of my friends that have played Fallout are practically drooling over Fallout 3 now that some details have been released.

But then there are these fucking lunatics who are so heavily invested in the game that they think that these insane statements are logical, even justified.

The better translation would be "fuck the raving lunatics, let's make a game that we love and that other people will love that continues the vision of Fallout". If they happen to make a shitload of money along the way, all the better. It might mean that we'll get Fallout 4, 5, 6, etc...maybe even that Fallout MMO they keep talking about.

Ariphaos · Post by **Ariphaos** » 2007-08-02 01:07am

salm wrote:Haha, this is like kill your idols, only the other was round. Kill your fanbase. I like Bethestas way if thinking. Fuck the fans, just make a good, entertaining game that generates heaps of money. :D

I am a Fallout fan. Loved the first two, and even enjoyed Fallout Tactics.

I don't really care for first-person perspectives, but aside from that, I'm sure I'll love Fallout 3.

I'd make some obscene comment about the NMA folks, but really, I don't think I want those mutated creeps touching me, whatever they have might be contagious.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-08-02 02:30am

It's not strickly first person. So far as I'm aware it's third person over-the-shoulder with the option for it to be first person.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2007-08-02 04:24am

Erik von Nein wrote:It's not strickly first person. So far as I'm aware it's third person over-the-shoulder with the option for it to be first person.

Hasn't just about every preview said you can zoom far out so you're effectively playing it in the same PoV as the other Fallouts?

Edit:
http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/fallout-3/800771p1.html

In fact, not only is it perfectly playable from third-person, but you can zoom out the camera to make it almost isometric, in a nod to the previous two games.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-08-02 05:50am

2000AD wrote:http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/fallout-3/800771p1.html

I said this in the earlier thread, but based on this review as well; this game looks pretty awesome to me. The only thing in there that concerns me is 'there will be level scaling but we will get it right this time lol'. Hopefully that will mean spawning more numerous/powerful enemies instead of giving the bog standard enemies ridiculous stats (and even there, having formerly low-threat locations turn into hellholes shouldn't happen without some kind of in-world justification). Oh, and I hope the melee combat does make it in, some ammo-scarce melee-focused sections would add variety.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-08-02 06:27am

Level scaling in Oblivion surprised me mainly because it's been done in other games, and done well. It's not actually rare for the game to adjust threats based on the power of your character, it's just that Oblivion applied it to everyone, everywhere and in the same way.

So it's not hard to get it right. Besides, the one absolutely brilliant thing Bethesda does with it's RPGs is leave them moddable as fuck - think about it. Their fanbase is grateful for the opportunity to work on fixing Beth's mistakes. While I thought Oblivion to be quite mediocre because of its flaws, the mods revived a dead patient (for me, at least).

I hope they do the same with F3. Fallout with oblivion-esque modding potential = repeat orgasm.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2007-08-02 06:32am

It's important to remember that Morrowind had level scaling too. They just went about it in a more sane fashion, to the point where the scaling is virtually invisible.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-08-02 06:46am

PeZook wrote:I hope they do the same with F3. Fallout with oblivion-esque modding potential = repeat orgasm.

So how long do you think the NMA groupmind will take to produce an 'absolutely authentic to the original Fallout spirit total conversion'? I forsee a hilarious-to-outsiders civil war as the somewhat-less-insane ones start working on this mod while the die-hard nutcases decry them as traitors and send them death threats.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-08-02 07:04am

Starglider wrote: So how long do you think the NMA groupmind will take to produce an 'absolutely authentic to the original Fallout spirit total conversion'? I forsee a hilarious-to-outsiders civil war as the somewhat-less-insane ones start working on this mod while the die-hard nutcases decry them as traitors and send them death threats.

Your evaluation is correct ; Any TC would mean the modders have to accept the 3D engine at the least, which means the crazy fucks would indeed decry such a TC as impossible to do, because "The game is too broken to fix".

However, the reasonable crowd are welcome to try, and I will most certainly try it out. That's the beauty of the fact Beth is doing it - if you won't like something, there's gonna be approximately six million mods to fix it out two days after release.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-02 08:09am

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:It's important to remember that Morrowind had level scaling too. They just went about it in a more sane fashion, to the point where the scaling is virtually invisible.

With RPGs based on 'you start out with 5hp and end up with 400hp' style character levelling, such things are pretty much required. The obvious solution is not to do lameass Diablo-style levelling. The Morrowind stuff was perfectly fine (as you say, almost invisible to the player) and I never encountered ridiculous nonsense like highway bandits with complete ebony armour. Lots of cliff racers, though.

I'm not sure how truly flexible the Oblivion engine is. There are a lot of mods (often with very impressive scripting) but I'm not sure if NWA fanatics would even sully themselves with the editor.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-08-02 10:14pm

Erik von Nein wrote: Bethsoft saved the damned series from oblivion.

ZING! Comedy!

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-08-02 10:18pm

NeoGoomba wrote:ZING! Comedy!

Thank, thank you. I also do parties.

Post by **Vympel** » 2007-08-03 12:15am

Here's an interesting thing I just picked up on today:-

At NMA today they have a post regarding Satan Erm I mean Todd Howard's interview with Gamespot. Check it out. In particular, this comment:-

The Fallout community can be pretty vocal about its favorite game. What's the feedback been based on what you've shown of the game thus far? Have you managed to make some converts?

TH: Most haven't seen it yet, so I don't know if they'd be converted by screenshots or a teaser. Perhaps, but I doubt it. My general impression is they've hated the idea of us doing anything at all with it since 2004, so there's not much you can do about that except make the best game you can that is true to the series and yourself. To any fan that's actually seen the game, like many of the press guys, the feedback's been great…far better than any game we've ever shown. And it's pretty nerve-racking because you work for years on something and then pop your head up like "ta da!" with your fingers crossed. All the E3 awards certainly make you feel good because you really have no idea how you compare at the actual show. But to be called "best in show" so many times…and with hundreds of great games at E3, it definitely gives the whole team something to be proud of…to know we're heading in a direction a lot of people like.

At the end the NMA guy says:-

Of course, it was entirely Bethesda's decision not to show the demo to any representative from the fan-base.

But I think another reason for their sad little jihad is that Bethesda doesn't accept the legitimacy of NMA and their ilk as The Fallout Fanbase.

It obviously drives them nuts- when Howard is asked a question about the fans, he quite simply answers in the context that he's a fan and so is a lot of the press covering the game, and that's good enough for him.

Contrast that with the comment by the NMA guy: "to any representative from the fan-base" - ie someone from there. As if they're the sum total of the fan base.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-08-03 02:19am

Okay...since stumbling onto this thread and reading through some of the criticism on MNA, I headed to gaming sites to read articles about the E3 preview of F3. I found things like:

- The first hour of the game is a sort of "character creation". You spend an hour in the Vault, doing real quests, setting up your character by making in-universe decisions and generally exploring the place. The screenshots of the inside look delightful.

NMA criticism: So, you can't set your age? This sucks. This isn't Fallout.

- Then you escape the vault. When you get outside, your vision blurs for a second to simulate your eyes getting used to natural sunlight. How fucking cool is that? That's attention to detail.

NMA criticism: It shouldn't be the East Coast, the government Vault was called Vault 0, not 101 and the suit isn't skintight. And the Megaton quest is stupid.

- Your PIP boy can pick up radio stations. There's a DJ who will comment on your activities in the game world, and you can pick up radio transmissions of caravans and slavers, thus warning you to their presence. Come on. Pure goodness.

NMA criticism: None I came upon, thank God. But the general reaction seemed to be "meh".

- Non-isometric view allows for tactical movement and cover. You can pause the game any time you want to consider your moves and aim your shots. (eg. the V.A.T.S. system)

NMA criticism: We have to run around in real time to replenish our AP! Combat will no longer mean "standing around klicking on enemies" and "shooting the eyes repeatedly". You will have to use stupid FPS moves, like cover, flanking and ambushes! Waah! And they won't let us target the eyes! YOU CAN'T HAVE FALLOUT WITHOUT TARGETABLE EYES!!!!

- The graphics made me drool and establish a computer upgrade fund.

NMA criticism: The fact Bethesda spends so much time on the graphics will obiously mean they will shit all over the rest of the game, leaving us with an unfinished product!

Okay, so I didn't really establsh a computer upgrade fund, but will make sure I have a good rig by Fall 2008.

When reading some of the more insane posters on NMA (there are some sane ones, I'll admit, who advocate holding out untill the game is released) it seems that Bethesda could do everything they cry about and they still wouldn't get the game "right." Because they made Oblivion. And we all know Oblivion was not a real RPG. And they gonna release Fallout to consoles, which will somehow "cheapen" the game.

These are people who think the Van Buren demo was (their words) PERFECT! Why oh why did they change anything! No targetable eyes! Waaaaaaah!!!

They're like a reclusive cult that is terrified of the idea their religion is about to become mainstream and accepted by the masses. They will no longer be the niche ones, the hardcore gamers with The Answer to how games should look. Now everybody will play Fallout, and everybody will enjoy it and the popular kids at school will know what Fallout is, and their inside jokes will mean nothing. In a way, for some people, the fact Fallout 3 is being made at all by a company with actual marketing muscle is literally the end of their world.

This is serious business, people. And the fact we don't give a shit is all the more tragic for them

EDIT: Oh, I just found this gem:

If you check out on of the concept art pics, the Paradise Falls one, it's a group of Slavers standing over a dead guy in Power Armour, celebrating like they just caught a giant fish or something. Sounds like humans are still the nastier things in the wastes. As it should be.
I have to wonder how a bunch of rednecks could take down a guy in Power Armour.
Maybe they just found him there sleeping and took a picture. Or they used their nucular catapult.

and

This kinda got me too....I'm guessing it was just because it was concept art by someone who probably didn't know much about Fallout. Especially since Power Armor was developed as pretty much a walking tank.

Yeah! Power Armor = invincible. Because it's impossible to penetrate armor with primitive munitions. And it's not like the slavers treated this victory as something incredibly unusual, now did they? No sir, this ruins my perception of how Power Armor should behave. Fucking Beth...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-08-03 11:23am

They will no longer be the niche ones, the hardcore gamers with The Answer to how games should look. Now everybody will play Fallout, and everybody will enjoy it and the popular kids at school will know what Fallout is, and their inside jokes will mean nothing.

I think it's more that they're afraid that people will come new to the Fallout series (heck, I might pick up Fallout 3, and I never played 1 or 2) and these people will become fans and base their conceptions and expectations of the series on their experieence with Fallout 3, rather than the Holiest of Holy Games Fallout 1 and 2.

That said, they're still stupid, because it's not like any game studio is going to invest the resources to make another game exactly like Fallout 2.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2007-08-03 06:14pm

Beth should do a Final Fantasy game next.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-08-03 06:43pm

Spyder wrote:Beth should do a Final Fantasy game next.

Pfft, wouldn't do much. FF already has fanwhores of the original material, SNES/Famicom material, FF7 lovers, and people who just hate anything new.

The fun with Fallout is all their love is to two games, and some of these no life yabbering morons regard even Fallout 2 as shit because it wasn't Fallout 1.1.